Origin of Life

Atomic_Omnikid

Let's talk about origin of life?

do you believe in creationism or evolution?and state why?

Atomic_Omnikid

One of the most basic laws in the universe is the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This states that as time goes by, entropy in an environment will increase. Evolution argues differently against a law that is accepted EVERYWHERE BY EVERYONE. Evolution says that we started out simple, and over time became more complex. That just isn抰 possible: UNLESS there is a giant outside source of energy supplying the Earth with huge amounts of energy. If there were such a source, scientists would certainly know about it.

Scientists recently detected just such a source of energy, using our sophisticated neutrino telescopes.

http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/10/13/sun-shots/

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo.html

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by Atomic_Omnikid at 19-5-2007 12:12 AM
Let's talk about origin of life?

I believe in evolution and I also believe that the eath cant exist or initiated by its own.. it is initiated by god...

and evolution is the process that we all become today......

No offense to bring about religion.....but i have few doubts....
1) god created human, adam and eve.
adam and eve are same human, same colour. why there are so many races in the world today?
meaning to say. chinese and malay marry.. an Indian pop out.

2) god created human about 3000 years ago in Israel. but human existed long before that. in africa, china, india and even america.why? how?

Actually, we never stop evolving...
what is evolution? Evolution is the changes our bodies take in order to adapt to surroundings. Be it internal or external.
We human avoid evolutions.......
We create air conditioner... so that we wont feel that hot. human avoid this suffering and human body do not have the chace to change and make our skin thicker to withstand the heat etc....
Infact... there are some evolutions that we can see already... Body builder.... why they are so big? because they train and their body make changes by building more muscle to adapt to the intense training....
Many people refuse to accept evolution as they don`t want to downgrade them self to apes....
I mean you are human and differs from apes because you have a brain....
You are born human, raise as a human... I left you in the jungle without food....
You will lost your sanity and become no differ from apes.....
Physically we are all the same... we are more superior because we have brain or akal.... If you lost it, you are no differ from animal.
without akal, you eat like animal, have sex with the one that you have no feelings with like animal,
you behave insanely like animal without controlling your animal instint within you(some call it satan, whatever).

what say you?

Atomic_Omnikid

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 19-5-2007 00:30



I believe in evolution and I also believe that the eath cant exist or initiated by its own.. it is initiated by god...

and evolution is the process that we all become today......

N ...

I also believe in Evolution..

I think humans are physically incapable if left alone in wild alone...

so humans creates tools(weapons) and develop skills to survive..

and for protection they team up to kill other giant animals and share the meat...

and the only thing that differs us from animal kingdom is our brain..

paparock

Teori evolusi adalah berpatutan dan boleh diterima sebab banyak bukti mengenainya. Tapi ia hanya terpakai untuk makhluk yang bukan manusia aje. Manusia terkecuali sebab Tuhan sendiri kata Dia create Adam dengan cara yang istimewa. Sebab tu manusia mempunyai kemampuan berbeza dari makhluk lain walaupun mereka mendahului kita beratus juta tahun dari segi kewujudan. Tapi manusia pun evolve jugak cuma ia bermula sejak kehidupan Adam di bumi ini bermula...

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by Atomic_Omnikid at 19-5-2007 12:48 AM
and the only thing that differs us from animal kingdom is our brain.....

Humans are toooooooo............... dependent on technologies nowadays......

Animal also have brain..........

What differ us with animal is akal... not otak......

Cat use their otak to run, climb attack... but cat cant use their mind to justify right, wrong love, hate etc........

cat just follow its animal instint... when thretened, the cat become violent....

If human behave so, human are no differ from cat or animal anyway

Can you answer my few questions in the context of islam? thank you.
p.s. the peoples in RSF bit fanatics la... if i ask such question there they`ll say lot of things.

1) If God created Adam and Eve when god created the world. How do you explain dinosaurs?

2) if adam and eve are from israel, or middle east. About 3000 years ago. how come there are human that live on earth before adam and eve is created? Like in India, China, Africa, America?

3) if adam and eve are the same race of people, how come there are so many races in the world?

4) why god created us like this? two ears, 2 eyes, 2 hands etc.. the way we are now.. as human. Why we do not looked like horse, fish etc??

[ Last edited by  wei_loon5063 at 19-5-2007 03:14 AM ]

me_ai

creation - as i believe, there will be a limit of explanation u can fin out from current science or logic or using normal assumption in order to discuss this chapter. as exmple, what is beyond our galaxy, what is beyond other galaxy, how big is our universe. there will be limit of explanation u can find.

it relates very much on the spritual understanding beyond our capable of thinking. somehow most of us realize his inner voice try to explain something beyond logical thinking and would be called crazy by most of others. somhow he will try to seek the hidden store memory in him self in order to understand what is this life meant for.

all this will lead u to ur faith, ur most understanding come from ur heart ur true voice. this will lead to foundation of faith.

evolution - bg manusia mungkin boleh difahami dari segi bagaimana kefahaman dan keberkesanan penggunaan akal mereka, bandingkan keadaan manusia awal dan manusia skang, perbezaan ketara ialah dengan perlbagai penemuan dan penghasilan barang2 baru berdasarkan daya pemikiran dan kreativiti, tapi rupa bentuk manusia tidak berubah seperti sesetengah makhluk lain yg berubah rupabentuk utk berevolusi.

wei_loon5063

I think we need to know what is life before we talk about origin of life

What is life?

• Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
• Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
• Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
• Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
• Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
• Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
• Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

This is the scientific explanation of life...
Is it accurate?
Lot of "lifeless" things have the characteristics from 1 to 6.
1) Hemostatis- Cup reduce its temperature to its surroundings to reach equilibrium.
2) Organisation- Molecules, atoms..... these are not organisations? H2O... the organisation of water.....
3) Metabolism- Cars and all the things require energy in what so ever form. chemical, food, force, gravity. All require energy to move.
4) Growth- the earth growed from small rock to a big giant soil ball.....
5) adaptation- all the things around us change in order to adapt. the ship being hit by wave. it then swing to adapt to remain equilibrium. Newton 3rd law.
6) response to stimuli- all things react to an action. You punch the door. the door reacts by moving or a knock sound is created.
7) reproduction- what is reproduction? is is possible for lifeless things to reproduce? the ice cold water. you put it there. It extract more water from atmosphere... and in the end it has more water. is this reproduction? Even human cant reproduce with nothing consumed. your mother need to eat inorder to grow you in her pregnancy. right?

now.... what is life then?

wei_loon5063

What is life.. what is death??

Evidence of 'life after death'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/986177.stm


Scientists investigating 'near-death' experiences say they have found evidence to suggest that consciousness can continue to exist after the brain has ceased to function. However, the claim has been challenged by neurological experts. The researchers interviewed 63 patients who had survived heart attacks within a week of the experience.

Memories are extremely fallible

Dr Chris Freeman, Royal Edinburgh Hospital

Of these 56 had no recollection of the period of unconsciousness they experienced whilst, effectively, clinically dead. However, seven had memories, four of which counted as near-death experiences. They told of feelings of peace and joy, time speeded up, heightened senses, lost awareness of body, seeing a bright light, entering another world, encountering a mystical being and coming to "a point of no return". Oxygen levels None of the patients were found to be receiving low oxygen levels - which some scientists believe may be responsible for so-called "near-death" experiences. Lead researcher Dr Sam Parnia, of Southampton General Hospital, said nobody fully understands how brain cells generate thoughts. He said it might be that the mind or consciousness is independent of the brain. He said: "When we examine brain cells we see that brain cells are like any other cells, they can produce proteins and chemicals, but they are not really capable of producing the subjective phenomenon of thought that we have. "The brain is definitely needed to manifest the mind, a bit like how a television set can take what essentially are waves in the air and translate them into picture and sound." Scepticism Dr Chris Freeman, consultant psychiatrist and psychotherapist at Royal Edinburgh Hospital, said there was no proof that the experiences reported by the patients actually occurred when the brain was shut down. "We know that memories are extremely fallible. We are quite good at knowing that something happened, but we are very poor at knowing when it happened. "It is quite possible that these experiences happened during the recovery, or just before the cardiac arrest. To say that they happened when the brain was shut down, I think there is little evidence for that at all."

wei_loon5063

Human constantly discover

how big the universe is;
how small the atom, quarks is;

where are we?
are we extremely big compared to the bacteria?
or are we extremely small compared to the stars?

What if the stars we see are the bacteria we live in where it is seen by some superbeings?

When are we? the begining?
Before god created us and all this is created....
it existed for how long? if it is nothing... why god do not create us sooner or later? Why not 100 billion years ago? not 100 billion years later?

why now?


[ Last edited by  wei_loon5063 at 19-5-2007 05:06 PM ]

aku_EnSeM

life... weil_loon, i'm sure you are a master of this topic.. it's again, about conciousness...

i'm not good at this.. but i'd like to quote something from Qoran...

...."lalu Kami jadikannya makhluk yang lain...."

4got what sura, what verse. But the main thing is, We've made them another creation...

This obviously shows that life, or living things are not mere mixture of chemical compounds..

Hope i'm not out of the topic...

wei_loon5063

Originally posted by aku_EnSeM at 19-5-2007 05:19 PM
...."lalu Kami jadikannya makhluk yang lain...."

Who is "kami"?
God? Human?

What is "makluk"?
Human? Or some creature to be created soon by biotech?

Did quran say about "life"?

this is what buddhism say about life and how we know we exist.. just sharing

These three things:

pain

We feel pain no matter what. Be it physically or mentally. You might say Allah is maha penyayang. Yes. But still we feel pain and suffer. From fear, sickness, old, death, hate, anger etc... this is pain.

Now tell me... just one person in this world that do not suffer pain even a bit. who?

impermanence

NOTHING is this world is eternal....

We all are born, we climax, we decline we faded away.Even civilization....This world, god created it, it will be destroyed one day.

and egolessness

This is the most complicated one.

We exist because we have ego want to exist.

Our mind (you muslims might call it soul) exist and we refuse to give up this world untill our physical body cant sustain the old and eroed due to sickness etc...

Any comment?

let me ask you,

you can answer either from science, atheist or even islam point of view.

How do you know you exist? Now? as in reality?

johnconan

Evolution

source: Wisdom of The Ancient / T. Lobsang Rampa - Lama Tibet


Evolution - Tibet Buddha

Everthing is in a state of evolution. A child is born as a helpless baby and gradually evolves into an adult. People go to school and their evolution is much that they progress from class to class.

Men do not become angles on the earthly stage of evolution any more than animals turn into humans on this world. All must evolve according to the plans of the Universe and according to their own species.

The development of Man, or Mankind, has been proceeding for many millions of years. By consulting the Akashic Record you will be able to see the first form of Man was a globe, a creature not altogether solid, not altogether gaseous, something like an unpleasant murky of jelly. He had only one eye and no mind; instead, he was almost an automaton.

That was in the first Race of Man. In the second Race there was a difference because certain appendages protruded from the globe which was Man, and there was a rudimentary mind much as in the case of a monkey.

In the third Race of Man there was a dividing of the globe or sphere so that there were two sexes, male and female.

You may be interested in some of the different Races: In the first case with which we need deal there was the Race of the people of Lemuria, yes, there really was Lemuria! The Race at that time had instinct and passion, but they were not possessed of many of the higher emotions, not possessed of aspiration for spiritual pursuits.

The Earth in those days was still in a stage of development. Great gouts of flame shot out from the interior and there were earthquakes, and the Continent of Lemuria sank beneath the waves.

After the Lemurian Race there came the Atlantian Race. This was a improvement on the Lemurian because the Atlantian functioned on the higher emotions, the also evolved into a more reasoning type of mind, they went in for science a lot and, sadly, they produced an atom bomb thousands and thousands of years ago. The atom bomb went off, and the land called Atlantis sank beneath the waves. There were survivors scattered in various remote districts; some of their children were affected by radiations, and so there were mutations, mutations which caused the Aryan Race.

The Aryan Race is more of a concrete mind than spiritual, in fact, trying to get spiritual thoughts into most people is like trying to break concrete!

A sixth Race is functioning in the abstract, and eventually in the age of Aquarius, into which we are now entering, they will evolve into a spiritual mind. After this spiritual development we shall have a greater incursion into the abilities of a seventh Race. There are some of the seventh Race already on Earth, not many of them, but enough to provide a seed or nucleus, and the seventh Race will eventually achieve a knowledge of the leaders of this whole Solar System.

Evolution, then, is that which enables people, or anything, to develop and make progress.

Atomic_Omnikid

Originally posted by paparock at 19-5-2007 01:05
Teori evolusi adalah berpatutan dan boleh diterima sebab banyak bukti mengenainya. Tapi ia hanya terpakai untuk makhluk yang bukan manusia aje. Manusia terkecuali sebab Tuhan sendiri kata Dia cre ...

so kenapa manusia terKECUALI?

kenapa bukan macam makhluk lain yg  berevolusi?

Atomic_Omnikid

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 19-5-2007 03:05



Humans are toooooooo............... dependent on technologies nowadays......

Animal also have brain..........

What differ us with animal is akal... not otak......

Cat use thei ...

tapi kenapa otak lebih besar jika dibandingkan dgn saiz badan kita..
otak gajah sama saiz dengan otak manusia..
so,ini bermakna,saiz otak menentukan akal rite?

paparock

I guess God's concept of creation is as simple as the concept of Wordpress blogging infrastructure. Human is a special pluggin....

Atomic_Omnikid

Originally posted by wei_loon5063 at 19-5-2007 16:54
I think we need to know what is life before we talk about origin of life



This is the scientific explanation of life...
Is it accurate?
Lot of "lifeless" things have the ch ...

I learned about this terms in Biology.. ..homeostasis makes us pee when we felt cold rite..

These three things:

pain

We feel pain no matter what. Be it physically or mentally. You might say Allah is maha penyayang. Yes. But still we feel pain and suffer. From fear, sickness, old, death, hate, anger etc... this is pain.

Now tell me... just one person in this world that do not suffer pain even a bit. who?

impermanence

NOTHING is this world is eternal....

We all are born, we climax, we decline we faded away.Even civilization....This world, god created it, it will be destroyed one day.

and egolessness

This is the most complicated one.

We exist because we have ego want to exist.

Our mind (you muslims might call it soul) exist and we refuse to give up this world untill our physical body cant sustain the old and eroed due to sickness etc...

thx 4 the info...

paparock

Originally posted by Atomic_Omnikid at 19-5-2007 06:39 PM


so kenapa manusia terKECUALI?

kenapa bukan macam makhluk lain yg  berevolusi?

Manusia terkecuali sebab Tuhan kata macam tu. Kita kat sini untuk diuji. Sebab tu dalam pada semua makhluk berotak lain menggunakan otaknya untuk survive melalui suatu path yang standard, manusia menggunakan otak untuk membuat pilihan dalam hidupnya...

Atomic_Omnikid

Originally posted by paparock at 19-5-2007 18:42
I guess God's concept of creation is as simple as the concept of Wordpress blogging infrastructure. Human is a special pluggin....

what kind of plugin we are?
RSS feed? ..or we just experiment of some kind of sentient being? :stp:

Atomic_Omnikid

Originally posted by paparock at 19-5-2007 18:46


Manusia terkecuali sebab Tuhan kata macam tu. Kita kat sini untuk diuji. Sebab tu dalam pada semua makhluk berotak lain menggunakan otaknya untuk survive melalui suatu path yang standard, ma ...

kenapa kita perlu diuji?