I know it is not right, but I just don't understand!

Milo_Ice

I am a "game meat hawker". I slaughter hundreds of  living animals everyday.
I know nothing else but slaugthering. This is how I earn for living.

A lot of Buddhists suggest (somewhat urge) me to stop my job because it is BAD.


One thing makes me confuse in Buddhism

All lifes are equal.

In this analogy:

If a lion killing a rabbit is NATURAL, why human killing a rabbit is BAD?

You might say: a lion is STUPID, human is SMART. So, we shouldn't kill that rabbit.

BUT THAT'S THE POINT.

Even a STUPID LION do kill other creatures. If we quit killing other creatures, then we are MORE STUPID than a lion.
We SMART human should kill even more creatures. Those animals will kill us too when they have the chances.

I know it is not right, but I just don't understand!:stp:

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Milo_Ice at 18-8-2005 12:28 AM
I am a "game meat hawker". I slaughter hundreds of  living animals everyday.
I know nothing else but slaugthering. This is how I earn for living.

A lot of Buddhists suggest (somewhat  ...

Dear friend,

Well, first of all, if someone were to try to kill you, how would you feel??? What will you feel??? If someone had already stab you, before death, at that very moment, the pain you feel etc, what will it be in your thoughts??? Do you wish for others to kill you??? Or do you NOT wish for others to kill you??? Or is it that you are neutral?? If your answer is that you do not wish to be killed or murdered or assisinated by others for whatsoever reason as you treasure your life, so you must NOT do onto others that which you do not wish others do it onto you. Others to value their life. Others too wish to live.

Also, why we must not kill living beings? We must have compassion and loving kindness for all. All value their life, many are suffering. How would you feel if someone were to kill any member of your family you so love and cherrish??? We ought to have compassion (belas kasihan) on these creatures who are still suffering.

Also, are you a Buddhist??? If yes then I believe that you believe in the law of cause and effect. When there is a cause, there will be its effects.

Sephiroth

Originally posted by Milo_Ice at 18-8-2005 12:28 AM
I am a "game meat hawker". I slaughter hundreds of  living animals everyday.
I know nothing else but slaugthering. This is how I earn for living.

A lot of Buddhists suggest (somewhat  ...

Simply thing as this also you don't understand?

A Lion hunts and kills another animal (a Rabbit for your sake), because it eats the meat. It does what is required to live - Action directly link to the victim.

To a Lion, there is no other way (Direct way) to live other than by flesh of other animals, therefore, it is not a sin due to its own nature.

You on the other hand, do not eat the meat you kill. You sell it and take the money which then used to buy food for yourself (Action indirectly links to the victim).

To you, there is many ways where you can survive without kiling other lifeforms (Indirect ways) and you cannot say, I don't have any choice. A Human being HAVE choice ... or you might as well become an animal (like a Lion) which has no choice.

Milo_Ice

Yes, I know what you are talking about, simply because I am a human too.

Some animals even cry before I kill them. There is an undescribeable feeling that pausing me from killing them, but not stoping me. Maybe this is what we call compassion.

But I think "over compassion" is a natural mental sickness, because my so called logic tell me that killing other being is not that evil. If I am stop by those feeling, this only mean that I am a coward.
Compassion is very less even between humans, why we even bother how the animals feel?

If someone kill me, I will feel bad, of course.

But that only mean "I should prevent other creatures to do so",

not "to stop killing other creatures".

Other creature will kill us if they have the chances no matter we are did kill them or not.

Killing other creatures are totally natural in a flesh eat flesh world. We all eat flesh.(except vegeterians). This is how this what our world is. Then why people just pretend like they are compasionate or something.

I don't know, maybe I will fell better if I think like this, since I will have to go on like this anyway.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Milo_Ice at 18-8-2005 11:37 PM
Yes, I know what you are talking about, simply because I am a human too.

Some animals even cry before I kill them. There is an undescribeable feeling that pausing me from killing them, but not s ...

Dear friend, I shall now explain in my own thought and any mistake in my part or lack of knowledge or lack of wisdom etc is on my part and I sincerely apologise.

Well, earlier on, I gave you something on humans not killing humans. Now I will give you the same on humans not killing other creatures. Well, these creatures do have feelings too. So imagine, if we humans which is also a creature is being killed by another superior creature for food, how would you feel???? Also, if the animals kill us for their food, how would you feel??? As you do not wish for those animals to kill you and eat you as their food, so must you NOT kill them and eat them (I have yet to perfect on this but one day, I shall eat only pure food, cultivate, I must). So you see dear friend.

Regarding the statement you gave below:

But I think "over compassion" is a natural mental sickness, because my so called logic tell me that killing other being is not that evil. If I am stop by those feeling, this only mean that I am a coward.
Compassion is very less even between humans, why we even bother how the animals feel?

Well, tell me, you said that if you are stop by this feeling you are a coward, that is what you posted right? Now can you explain why is that so??? If by your definition, that is so, then aren't you a coward already for you are afraid of being a coward???? If that is your definition, then if everyone take that stand, then isn't those who do not rape, not molest, not murdering humans, not commiting crime a coward too??? Thus, your such dfinition is not valid nor justified. I will tell you what I myself think is courage or bravery. Willing to sacrifice your own life for the sake of others. Willing to restrain your STRONG urge to harm others for the benefits of others, willing to give away your organs and body parts for others and the MOST important thing of all, willing to be filial and respectful to your parents, heeding their good advice, and serve them, these are bravery and courage to me. That which is coward to me is not willing to help others in when a life is at stake even though he/she only needs to contribute part of their wealth. That which is coward is those who are willing to kill and harm others so as for their own material benefit for they fear of life hardship etc.

I have to go on an urgent note. I shall return and respond again. Take Care dear friend.

Sephiroth

by Milo_Ice
       
Yes, I know what you are talking about, simply because I am a human too.
I sometimes doubt that. ;)

Some animals even cry before I kill them. There is an undescribeable feeling that pausing me from killing them, but not stoping me. Maybe this is what we call compassion.

But I think "over compassion" is a natural mental sickness, because my so called logic tell me that killing other being is not that evil. If I am stop by those feeling, this only mean that I am a coward.
Compassion is very less even between humans, why we even bother how the animals feel?

That is nature of a predator in the wild, where its "logic" and "compassion" is hidden away, "over-riden" by the "hunger" to consume. Have you ever fasted before? If you had, you could know what I mean.

Animals do have compassion but when the hunger to feed comes, all logic and compassion takes a backseat and the animal, in its purest form, takes over and consume meat of others.

If someone kill me, I will feel bad, of course.
But that only mean "I should prevent other creatures to do so",
not "to stop killing other creatures".
Other creature will kill us if they have the chances no matter we are did kill them or not.

What kind of logic is this? Selfish logic? To a victim, you are the "other creature" which comes to kill it.

So, same way as you do not pity the creatures you kill, no one will pity you when others come to kill you as well. Why? By your own logic, because it means I should prevent other creatures from killing me instead of someone else killing you. Simple, selfish logic, like you. ;)

Killing other creatures are totally natural in a flesh eat flesh world. We all eat flesh.(except vegeterians). This is how this what our world is. Then why people just pretend like they are compasionate or something.

I don't know, maybe I will fell better if I think like this, since I will have to go on like this anyway

Nope ... Animals follow flesh eating flesh world. Humans can live by consuming as little flesh as possible and even stop killing animals for meat altogether. They CAN stop domesticing goats, cows (yes, camels), sheeps etc for meat ... I think milk and byproducts such as wool is OK since we don't kill the animals and they also benefict from our protections.

It is true that we consume flesh when we eat vegetable (bugs also will die and its essence may still be in the vegetable) and drink water (microbe) but this is something we cannot help, thus excusable. It is simply lesser of two evils.

However, only one who continues to believe since we live in Flesh eat Flesh world, we should continued to behave like animals, are animals themselves. They are not ready or willing to follow Buddhist principles. :no:

Here, here.

I think I know how to address your confusion in a very short talk  

Animals kills animals is not right. That is why they REMAINED in the cycles of the animal world (chu sheng dao).

Remember when Lord Buddha said, getting a human body is not easy?

Why not easy? It is not easy because animals have difficulty to change its sinful way of life. They keep repeating their folly. They become what they are today for all human to see.

Therefore, why emulate sinful act that would condemn you to animal life for a very long time?

Who is more stupid?

Sephiroth

by Adm_Cheng_Ho

Remember when Lord Buddha said, getting a human body is not easy?

To an animal, Man may look like a God who can choose his own Path, which they could not.
What is the difference between Man and an animal if you cannot choose your own Path?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 19-8-2005 12:14 AM



Dear friend, I shall now explain in my own thought and any mistake in my part or lack of knowledge or lack of wisdom etc is on my part and I sincerely apologise.

Well, earlier on, I gave  ...

Continuing from my response to Milo Ice

If someone kill me, I will feel bad, of course.

But that only mean "I should prevent other creatures to do so",

not "to stop killing other creatures".

Other creature will kill us if they have the chances no matter we are did kill them or not.

Dear Milo Ice, for the statemen above, I beg to differ. You see, if somebody kill you, you would feel bad. Now, what about others??? Think of them as if they are you and you are them. How would you feel??? Thus, do not practise double standard. Have compassion to all. Do not practise onto others what you do not want others to do onto you. There are many creatures which attack when they feel their life or colony is being threatened. So, I do not agree that other creatures will simply kill us if they have the chances. Otherwise, you will not see that bee just sting those who they feel that they might bring harm to them. When there is a bee, saty calm and they will not sting you unless they accidentally stung you, that is different. That is an example. From what I know Tigers are afraid of humans and will not try to be near humans unless they are very hungry or being threatened.

To tell you frankly, I know one that have even he rugi wang and rugi sini sana with a friend, however, he keep on going disregarding the rugi thing. Why??? Because he sees them as more important, much much more important compared to those material wealth which is only a material object. Thus, there was a reaction by that friend that in the end, he pula help him a lot and do not calculate on the RM or

Post on 18-8-2005 12:28 AM
I am a "game meat hawker". I slaughter hundreds of  living animals everyday.
I know nothing else but slaugthering. This is how I earn for living.
A lot of Buddhists suggest (somewhat urge) me to stop my job because it is BAD


Then who will gives u the $$$ for ur living??? Did the Buddhist give it to u???  
Cakap memang senang,,tapi tak mungkin kita akan stop kerana kita berbuat demikian untuk periuk nasi kita.
Apa kata kita suruh Buddhist makan daging,,.tengok apakah respon mereka.

Binatang memang dilahirkan untuk disembelih dan kemudian dimakan oleh manusia,,,.,.Ini adalah satu kitaran hidup yg normal. Sekiranya kita hanya menikmati sayur-sayuran saja then apakah yg akan berlaku kepada populasi binatang ni.. Adakah ianya dibunuh juga sebab populasinya makin bertambah.???

Yang penting ialah hati kamu baik terhadap keluarga dan juga kawan. Jujur, amanah bertimbang rasa dan berhemah tinggi seperti yg kita dapat pelajari dalam moral.
Ada ramai juga kawan saya yg mengamalkan vegetarian seumur hidup tapi perangai mereka tu sama saje,..Bersih dimulut tapi busuk kat hati. Orang macam ni lagi saya takuti.

Jikalau ada agama yg memaksa kamu menninggalkan apa yg kamu ada sekarang ataupun apa yg kamu lakukan sekarang ni untuk periuk nasi kamu...,,itu adalah bukan satu agama yg betul.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by cclee at 25-8-2005 06:20 PM
Post on 18-8-2005 12:28 AM
I am a "game meat hawker". I slaughter hundreds of  living animals everyday.
I know nothing else but slaugthering. This is how I earn for living.
A lot o ...

First of, kita tak payah jadi butcher. Beliau boleh kerja dalam bidang lain, kata, tanam padi, tanam sayuran, jual sayur, buat bisnes, kerja untuk orang etc, tak semestinya jadi butcher. So there is lots of ways one can earn a living. Tak semstinya mahu bunuh.

Of course orang yang makan vegetarian tapi buat jahat itu lain cerita lah. Tapi kalau hati baik, sikap baik, orang baik, why not eat vegetarian also, make it even better. However, need to say lah, me still not vegetarian, but one day, I shall achieve my goal of not eating meat.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir at 26-8-2005 12:56 AM ]

Milo_Ice

Honestly, the biggest consideration is $$$ you know.

Dispite on the unplesant moment in slaugthering, You won't believe in how much $$$ I earn from selling meat every month. It's a "higher managerial income" :lol

Miloice:
Honestly, the biggest consideration is $$$ you know...You won't believe in how much $$$ I earn from selling meat every month. It's a "higher managerial income"
In that case, the same reasoning and principle is applied to you in your next life.

cclee:
Then who will gives u the $$$ for ur living???
Can someone kidnap you or your loved ones? Can someone kill you or your loved ones for meat and money?

Because they also uses the same reason - $.

Originally posted by Milo_Ice at 26-8-2005 03:27 AM
Honestly, the biggest consideration is $$$ you know.

Dispite on the unplesant moment in slaugthering, You won't believe in how much $$$ I earn from selling meat every month. It's a "higher  ...

I agree with u cause my father in law was also a butcher.
Dia ada 4 biji rumah dan 4 biji kereta.

Master Hsing Yun pernah berkata...apabila beliau mendakwah kat pulau-pulau sekitar taiwan, penduduk kat situ majoritynya nelayan. nelayan-nelayan tu kata, kami ni berdosa, tidak boleh practice buddhism.
then, master kata mrk juga boleh practice compassion.
apabila tangkap ikan, lepaskanlah ikan-ikan yg kecil. this is compassion too.

kalau anda memang tidak dpt menukar career anda, memang membunuh itu berdosa tapi u masih boleh menghargai nyawa org lain, binatang lain.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Milo_Ice at 26-8-2005 03:27 AM
Honestly, the biggest consideration is $$$ you know.

Dispite on the unplesant moment in slaugthering, You won't believe in how much $$$ I earn from selling meat every month. It's a "higher  ...

you can always earn a living through other channel. As long as you can give them (your family) a good life ok. However, if you stay on because you want more $$$ then bukankah itu tamak, tamak duit sambil sanggup membunuh. Is $$ to you so important? Then what about hired assasins to kill somebody??? To be frank, you also can earn $$$ via other channels. Also, if you really pentingkan $$$ sambil sanggup membunuh, then are you any different from those murderers??? Ask yourself, is it really worth it? Remember, what you do in this life will also affect your next life, the law on cause and effect, you must remember. Yes, to you money is important. What is money, a worthless material object which people give value in it so that people can use it to trade for the other things of services, such as material goods, etc and whatsoever. It can be used to get the daily necessety such as food, clothing etc. It is also used to trade for unecessary goods for pleasures etc. Now, think this way, is it right for one to kill for his own pleasure which is unnecessary???

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by cclee at 26-8-2005 11:20 AM



I agree with u cause my father in law was also a butcher.
Dia ada 4 biji rumah dan 4 biji kereta.

so what 4 biji kereta, 4 biji rumah??? Is it necessary for a family to have 4 kereta 4 rumah??? All these are lebih, not necessary. Also, have you think of those people kat Africa sana yang masih banyak tak ada makan lagi???

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 26-8-2005 08:21 PM



so what 4 biji kereta, 4 biji rumah??? Is it necessary for a family to have 4 kereta 4 rumah??? All these are lebih, not necessary. Also, have you think of those people kat Africa sana yang m ...

Ini adalah nasib mereka sekiranya mereka mempunyai harta tertentu. Ramai yg teringin sangat tapi tak bukan semua yg boleh. Takkan kamu tak teringin mendapatnya?
Mereka mengecapinya dengan tangan dan hasil titik peluh mereka,,dan mereka bukannya merompak.  
Takkan orang kat Africa hidup susah then kita pun harus hidup sebaya dengan mereka. We need to upgrade kan?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by cclee at 27-8-2005 11:17 AM


Ini adalah nasib mereka sekiranya mereka mempunyai harta tertentu. Ramai yg teringin sangat tapi tak bukan semua yg boleh. Takkan kamu tak teringin mendapatnya?
Mereka mengecapinya dengan tang ...

you do not need "4" cars. What I am trying to imply is that you need not kill to earn a living. Why must take away others' life so that you can possess extra material wealth (i.e. bukan bahan keperluan)??

Also, the rich should not be stingy and keep all to themselves, they must help the poor.

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 27-8-2005 08:16 PM


you do not need "4" cars. What I am trying to imply is that you need not kill to earn a living. Why must take away others' life so that you can possess extra material wealth (i.e. buk ...

Mereka juga buat banyak sedekah kerana mereka juga faham akan kerja yg mereka lakukan sekarang.