Switching method utk investment dlm UT guna EPF every 3 months

bayam

Saya nak tanya apa advantages and disadvantages kalau pakai method swithing utk invest dlm UT pakai EPF.... thanks in advance

hasribus

pakai method switching untuk invest?

well, to start with, aku rasa soklan ko tak berapa clear. tp let me assume like this.

Say ko bleh withdraw RM50k sekali thumbprint, u might want to allocate RM10k je masuk equity fund and the rest RM40k masuk money market fund. Setiap kali market turun, ko switch dari money market fund to the equity fund...kalo macam neh is good sebab u can practice DCA.

Tp kalo ko thumprint sekali keluar RM5000 dari EPF and ko nak buat RM1000 setiap kali switching, jenuh laa ajen ko.

Probably jugak maksud ko ni: switching out from equity bila market turn, and switch in bila market naik....gitu?

ni dah kira market timing. tak digalakkan Why? dah di kira double risk...one from the fund manager who is managing the fund professionally another one is from you/your agent yg nak time the market ntah guna kaedah haper. Kalo agen ko cadangkan buat benda ni, just ask what is his/her basis of predicting the market movement. And what is he/she makes a wrong call and ko miss opportunity? Ko pon kena consider the transaction cost of switching and aware that theere are limitations in switching....And pls be aware that an agent wud have many clients to take care off as well as soliciting new clients....unless agent ko jaga ko sorang jer.

haku dah jumpa banyak agent separuh masak kat luar tuh yg cadangkan buat market timing & switching. Their intention is good, hoping to maximise client's returns and protecting the downfall, tp mungkin mereka tak sedar on their limitations of predicting the market movement. Ada gak yg contradict themselves, on one hand soh buat switching to money market fund for the existing investment and on the other hand soh buat investment baru to an equity fund.

The best method is invest regularly (kalo pakai EPF every 3 months), believe in DCA and have a long term view. Jangan la nak switching switching, unit trust is not meant for that.

genie2522

membuka mata komen bos nie...
bagus aa...
suka baca cara bos tulis...

hasribus

Originally posted by genie2522 at 22-9-2008 09:30 AM
membuka mata komen bos nie...
bagus aa...
suka baca cara bos tulis...

terima kasih...
kalo nak one to one consultancy pls PM me for appointment, kalo ko ada kat area Lembah Klang - Melaka laa tapi...

stucke

Saya sokong komen saudara. Adalah lebih baik jika konsultan dan pelabur tahu akan matlamat pelaburan yang dibuat. Apa tujuan switching itu dibuat kalau tak capai matlamat pelaburan.

Pada kebiasaannya pelaburan unit amanah yang menggunakan EPF adalah pelaburan jangkamasa panjang iaitu antara 10 ke 20 tahun. Jangkamasa pelaburan ini telah mengurangkan risiko dan memberi pulangan yang lebih baik dari dividen EPF.

Seperti yang saudara hasribus komen tu, kita tak boleh "time the market" sebab kita bukan nya monitor market 24-7 untuk 365 hari. Bila timing market takut terlepas "best trading days".

Contohnya, jika kita kekalkan pelaburan dalam 15 tahun di KLCI berakhir 28 December 2007, kita masih dapat keuntungan 128%. Akan tetapi, jika kita terlepas "10 best trading days", kita kerugian 36%.

Switching biasanya dilakukan untuk "asset allocation rebalancing" dan biasanya melibatkan pelaburan tunai. Untuk pelaburan menggunakan EPF, kekalkan pelaburan anda hingga umur 55 tahun dan kutip hasil yang lebih baik dari dividen EPF dan hasil pelaburan yang islamik.

bayam

Originally posted by hasribus at 20-9-2008 12:33 PM
pakai method switching untuk invest?

well, to start with, aku rasa soklan ko tak berapa clear. tp let me assume like this.

Say ko bleh withdraw RM50k sekali thumbprint, u might want to allo ...

time kasih hasribus and stucke for the explanation.... skang dah clear....

lagi satu, kalau keadaan dimana katakan:

Jan 2006: saya beli unit ngan harga .50
Jan 2007: Harga meningkat jadi .70
March 2007: harga turun jadi .50 balik and terus menurun

So, adakah saya patut buat switching urk preserve my profit apabila berlakunya penurunan yg besar spt kes 1987 and 1997?....

hasribus

Originally posted by bayam at 23-9-2008 09:34 PM


time kasih hasribus and stucke for the explanation.... skang dah clear....

lagi satu, kalau keadaan dimana katakan:

Jan 2006: saya beli unit ngan harga .50
Jan 2007: Harga meningkat jadi .70
March 2007: harga turun jadi .50 balik and terus menurun

So, adakah saya patut buat switching urk preserve my profit apabila berlakunya penurunan yg besar spt kes 1987 and 1997?....

depends...it's epf investment right?

adakah penurunan tu sebab price adjustment after distribution or sebab market merudum? kalo sebab price adjustment, no hal sebab ko buleh nengok penanmbahan dalam units.

tp kalo sebab market merudum, well...nasihat haku bersifat situational. I need more info like how old are u, berapa byk ko dah invest and berapa byk ko buleh withdraw from EPF for yr next investment.  Sebab apa, kalo ko dah 53 yrs old, cadangan haku lain compare kalo ko around 30s.

Btw, apa cadangan ajen ko?

bayam

Originally posted by hasribus at 23-9-2008 11:38 PM


depends...it's epf investment right?

adakah penurunan tu sebab price adjustment after distribution or sebabmarket merudum? kalo sebab price adjustment, no hal sebab ko bulehnengok penanm ...

'
thanks hasribus

yes, it is an EPF investment..

Penurunan caused by market merudum...

umur saya 29 thn, so far ada 24k... next investment dlm 7k...

ajen saya cakap jgn switch.... tp bila difikirkan logic saya rasa kitaperlu switch bila market merudum utk lock the profit.... maknanyaswitch sekali sekala je la..... bukannya buat timing.... bila berlakumcm 87 or 97 mcm tu then baru switch....

hasribus

Originally posted by bayam at 24-9-2008 08:57 AM

'
thanks hasribus

yes, it is an EPF investment..

Penurunan caused by market merudum...

umur saya 29 thn, so far ada 24k... next investment dlm 7k...

ajen saya cakap jgn switch....  ...

actually aku pada dasarnya jugak setuju ngan ajen ko. Why?

Bila ko switch, yes...matlamat utk protect the capital. Tp ko switch to ke mana? Money Market fund? Ok, I assume money market fund. My question is when is the next time ko nak switch out? Based on what event or what trigger?

Kedua...wow! 29 thn dah invest RM24k...and still buleh invest RM7k. I guess you must be a highly paid professional. Anyway, ko ada 26 yrs to go to retirement. That means, theoritically 26 yrs to invest. That's a fantastic time frame. So to me,  u need not worry abt the volatility in the market sekarang. Instead ko kena percaya pada:

1) Investment is a journey ~ long term
2) Investment in a process ~ DCA

Ko practice those 2 discipline, yr investment will be fine. On the other hand, when u start to indulge in swtching, yr whole investment punya mindset and experience will never be the same again. Trust me...ada a few of my stubborn clients dah terkena. Just to share with u the scenario.

After election, market down 100 points to 1280, he caled me to switch to Money Market Fund. Haku habis habisan advised him not to, and to average down instead. Tp dia degil, proceed. Later when market went up to 1380, he called me again to switch back to equity. At this time aku dah memang give up ngan dia, just execute his wishes je.

Then market fell to 1150, call me again to switch to money market fund...sampai sekarang.

By doing that actually his investment lagi koyak. Dia pon tak realise dia buat market timing, and kalo tanya dia he wud swear that his intention is only to protect his investment capital.

Trust me Bayam...follow a discipline investment method. Switching is for other purpose...a change in investment objective, rebalance portfolio etc, but not advisable to sort of "create a shelter from the storm" coz we would then have a dilemma on when is the next storm coming and when to go in and ou from the shelter.

hasribus

hampeh betul...aku taip punyalah panjang tetiba bila submit all gone!

nantilah malam sikit haku reply...

stucke

Originally posted by hasribus at 24-9-2008 09:53 AM
hampeh betul...aku taip punyalah panjang tetiba bila submit all gone!

nantilah malam sikit haku reply...

dah timbul semula tu.. time posa dia lamba timbul

amirul_nazri

Originally posted by hasribus at 24-9-2008 09:51 AM


actually aku pada dasarnya jugak setuju ngan ajen ko. Why?

Bila ko switch, yes...matlamat utk protect the capital. Tp ko switch to ke mana? Money Market fund? Ok, I assume money market fun ...

Senang ceta bayam..

next time, setiap kali ko tgk investment ko ada more than 10% profit or equivalent to 1000 units and above..ko switch that 10% to low risk fund utk lock the profit..

biar baper kali pun, don't feel bothered sbb nie kerja agen ko...dia kena buat and monitor to realized ur profit.


bila market drop, it is advisable to go for money market fund..bond2 fund pun haprak la nie..

amirul_nazri

asyek mendap jer...hampeh betul forum nie

[ Last edited by  amirul_nazri at 24-9-2008 11:51 AM ]

bayam

Originally posted by amirul_nazri at 24-9-2008 11:49 AM


Senang ceta bayam..

next time, setiap kali ko tgk investment ko ada more than 10% profit orequivalent to 1000 units and above..ko switch that 10% to low risk fundutk lock the profit..

...

Thanks hasribus and amirul_nazri....

nampaknya sorang cadnag jgn switch and sorang cadang switch.... thatmeans, byk pandangan la berkenaan switching ni di kalangan agent....bukan jawapan yes atau no shj... so, final decision investor kena buatsendiri

hasribus

Originally posted by bayam at 24-9-2008 12:44 PM


Thanks hasribus and amirul_nazri....

nampaknya sorang cadnag jgn switch and sorang cadang switch.... thatmeans, byk pandangan la berkenaan switching ni di kalangan agent....bukan jawapan y ...

yup i agree. final decision lies on the investor.

anyway, switching ni bukannya suatu amalan yg digalakkan atas rasional rasional tertentu. Sepanjang yg haku perhatikan, takde buku yg mengajar tentang switching switching nih.

One interesting scenario :

Ko invest RM10k....grew 10% sekarang jadik RM11k.
So u switch yr profit in to money market fund.
at the same time u do another EPF withdrawal into the equity fund. Say for amount of RM4k.

Now, the above is a practice of some unit trust agents yg contradicting. Switching RM1k to protect the gains, but at the same time what about the risk for the new RM4k investment? Sad but true, this practice is rampant.

Scenario 2:

Ko invest RM10k....grew 10% sekarang jadik RM11k.
So u switch yr profit in to money market fund. Sekarang yr exposure in equity fund is RM10k semula.
Then the assuming process happens for 10 times....so u'd now have RM10k in equity and RM10k in money market fund. My question is, what is yr money doing the money market fund and how long it's going to be there?

Trust me. Switching is not a recommended investment. Get it wrong and yr whole investment process is kaput. The best : long term and DCA.