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WHO ARE THOSE CALLED "RIGHT HAND POSSESS"

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Post time 3-4-2004 01:13 AM | Show all posts |Read mode


Who are these people, the quran refers to as "right hand possess" ?

Are they your childrens or your servants or your slaves?

forum member WICKED in this tread said that right hand possess mean children or family member... wonder what others think of that phrase. :hmm:

Got info that the Arabic phrase for "right hand possess" is "ma malakat aymanukum"
Did a seach on Quran Browser and got the following. Check out the meaning of the phase.

Q4:03
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess...

Q4:24
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess...

Q4:25
And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess.

Q23:06~07
And who guard their private parts,
Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,


Q24:33
And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste,...

Q24:58
O you who believe! let those whom your right hands possess and those of you who have not attained to puberty ask permission of you three times; before the morning prayer, and when you put off your clothes at midday in summer, and after the prayer of the nightfall;...

Q30:28
He does propound to you a similitude from your own (experience): do ye have partners among those whom your right hands possess, to share as equals in the wealth We have bestowed on you? Do ye fear them as ye fear each other? Thus do we explain the Signs in detail to a people that understand.

Q33:50
O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her -- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Q33:52
It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your right hand possesses and Allah is Watchful over all things.

Q70:29~30
And those who guard their private parts,
Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess for these surely are not to be blamed,




[ Last edited by FaithHealer3 on 4-4-2004 at 10:50 PM ]
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Post time 3-4-2004 07:45 PM | Show all posts
OK can anyone explain what is "right hand possess " ???
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Post time 3-4-2004 10:55 PM | Show all posts
The idea of Muslim men doing what they will to women whom their right possess is all about sex slavery. The above verses simply means that Muslims are allowed to have sex with their slaves as much as they want. Thats why yu can find much sex slavery in teh middle east although they tout themselves to be orthodox Muslims.
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Post time 4-4-2004 03:10 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Debmey at 3-4-2004 10:55 PM:
The idea of Muslim men doing what they will to women whom their right possess is all about sex slavery. The above verses simply means that Muslims are allowed to have sex with their slaves as much  ...


Hmm......

Leviticus
44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life......


OH MY GOD!!... in Bible slave is a property for life...... tsk tsk tsk....:spd::spd:
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Post time 4-4-2004 07:54 AM | Show all posts
it doesn't say yu can have unlimited sex with slaves does it? unlike the quran.
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 Author| Post time 4-4-2004 04:43 PM | Show all posts


Slaves? Yeah very likely, but why are they refering to the slaves as "right hand possess", aren't there other names for slaves?

isn't Abd(ul) means Slave?

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 Author| Post time 4-4-2004 11:41 PM | Show all posts

:dia: RIGHT HAND POSSESS

Slaves in the 7th century Arabia don't get paid for their service... right?

Servants in the 7th century Arabia get paid for their service... right?

How come some Quran translators translate "ma malakat aymanukum" as "RIGHT HAND POSSESS" others translate it as SLAVES and some others translate it as SERVANTS... :stp:

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Post time 5-4-2004 01:08 AM | Show all posts
OK..so the bottom line is..the Quran even mentioned about slaves..and it's alright to have slaves?..:hmm:
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Post time 5-4-2004 07:28 AM | Show all posts
>>Q23:06~07
And who guard their private parts,
Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,
<<<

i think CHUBB securities are offering this service of guarding private parts. . .
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Post time 5-4-2004 08:59 AM | Show all posts
"O you men!
We have created you of a male and a female,
and then We made you
(into different) races and tribes
so that you may know each other.
Surely the most honourable of you with Allah
is the one who is most pious among you;
surely Allah Is All-Knowing & Aware."
(The Qur'an 49:13)
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:09 AM | Show all posts
And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; (Q 24:33)

The word kitab in the verse stands for the written contract between the slave and his master known as "mukatabah - deed of contract". The significant factor in mukatabah is that when a slave desires to get into such a mutual written contract, the master should not refuse it.In the verse quoted above, God has made it incumbent upon Muslims to help the slaves in getting liberated. When a slave wants to get himself freed, the master has not only to agree to it, but he is also directed to help the slave from his own wealth, the only provision being the satisfaction to the effect that the slave would live a respectable life after earning his freedom.
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:10 AM | Show all posts
"O you men!
We have created you of a male and a female,
and then We made you
(into different) races and tribes
so that you may know each other.
Surely the most honourable of you with Allah
is the one who is most pious among you;
surely Allah Is All-Knowing & Aware."
(The Qur'an 49:13)

What does the above verse has to do with sex slavery in Islam.

Besides, sura 49:13 above does not make sense at all.
Don't yu think people will know each other better had allah not created different tribes and races?

peace
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WICKED This user has been deleted
Post time 5-4-2004 09:16 AM | Show all posts
WOMEN IN ISLAM VERSUS WOMEN IN THE
JUDAEO-CHRISTIAN TRADITION:

POLYGAMY


Let us now tackle the important question of polygamy. Polygamy is a very ancient practice found in many human societies. The Bible did not condemn polygamy. To the contrary, the Old Testament and Rabbinic writings frequently attest to the legality of polygamy. King Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3) Also, king David is said to have had many wives and concubines (2 Samuel 5:13). The Old Testament does have some injunctions on how to distribute the property of a man among his sons from different wives (Deut. 22:7). The only restriction on polygamy is a ban on taking a wife's sister as a rival wife (Lev. 18:18). The Talmud advises a maximum of four wives. 51 European Jews continued to practice polygamy until the sixteenth century. Oriental Jews regularly practiced polygamy until they arrived in Israel where it is forbidden under civil law. However, under religious law which overrides civil law in such cases, it is permissible. 52

What about the New Testament? According to Father Eugene Hillman in his insightful book, Polygamy reconsidered, "Nowhere in the New Testament is there any explicit commandment that marriage should be monogamous or any explicit commandment forbidding polygamy." 53 Moreover, Jesus has not spoken against polygamy though it was practiced by the Jews of his society. Father Hillman stresses the fact that the Church in Rome banned polygamy in order to conform to the Greco-Roman culture (which prescribed only one legal wife while tolerating concubinage and prostitution). He cited St. Augustine, "Now indeed in our time, and in keeping with Roman custom, it is no longer allowed to take another wife." 54 African churches and African Christians often remind their European brothers that the Church's ban on polygamy is a cultural tradition and not an authentic Christian injunction.

The Quran, too, allowed polygamy, but not without restrictions:

"If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with them, then only one" (4:3).

The Quran, contrary to the Bible, limited the maximum number of wives to four under the strict condition of treating the wives equally and justly. It should not be understood that the Quran is exhorting the believers to practice polygamy, or that polygamy is considered as an ideal. In other words, the Quran has "tolerated" or "allowed" polygamy, and no more, but why? Why is polygamy permissible ? The answer is simple: there are places and times in which there are compelling social and moral reasons for polygamy. As the above Quranic verse indicates, the issue of polygamy in Islam cannot be understood apart from community obligations towards orphans and widows. Islam as a universal religion suitable for all places and all times could not ignore these compelling obligations.

In most human societies, females outnumber males. In the U.S. there are, at least, eight million more women than men. In a country like Guinea there are 122 females for every 100 males. In Tanzania, there are 95.1 males per 100 females. 55 What should a society do towards such unbalanced sex ratios? There are various solutions, some might suggest celibacy, others would prefer female infanticide (which does happen in some societies in the world today !). Others may think the only outlet is that the society should tolerate all manners of sexual permissiveness: prostitution, sex out of wedlock, homosexuality, etc. For other societies , like most African societies today, the most honorable outlet is to allow polygamous marriage as a culturally accepted and socially respected institution. The point that is often misunderstood in the West is that women in other cultures do not necessarily look at polygamy as a sign of women's degradation. For example, many young African brides , whether Christians or Muslims or otherwise, would prefer to marry a married man who has already proved himself to be a responsible husband. Many African wives urge their husbands to get a second wife so that they do not feel lonely. 56 A survey of over six thousand women, ranging in age from 15 to 59, conducted in the second largest city in Nigeria showed that 60 percent of these women would be pleased if their husbands took another wife. Only 23 percent expressed anger at the idea of sharing with another wife. Seventy-six percent of the women in a survey conducted in Kenya viewed polygamy positively. In a survey undertaken in rural Kenya, 25 out of 27 women considered polygamy to be better than monogamy. These women felt polygamy can be a happy and beneficial experience if the co-wives cooperate with each other. 57 Polygamy in most African societies is such a respectable institution that some Protestant churches are becoming more tolerant of it. A bishop of the Anglican Church in Kenya declared that, "Although monogamy may be ideal for the expression of love between husband and wife, the church should consider that in certain cultures polygyny is socially acceptable and that the belief that polygyny is contrary to Christianity is no longer tenable." 58 After a careful study of African polygamy, Reverend David Gitari of the Anglican Church has concluded that polygamy, as ideally practiced, is more Christian than divorce and remarriage as far as the abandoned wives and children are concerned. 59 I personally know of some highly educated African wives who, despite having lived in the West for many years, do not have any objections against polygamy. One of them, who lives in the U.S., solemnly exhorts her husband to get a second wife to help her in raising the kids.

TO BE CONTINUED...
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:16 AM | Show all posts
The problem of the unbalanced sex ratios becomes truly problematic at times of war. Native American Indian tribes used to suffer highly unbalanced sex ratios after wartime losses. Women in these tribes, who in fact enjoyed a fairly high status, accepted polygamy as the best protection against indulgence in indecent activities. European settlers, without offering any other alternative, condemned this Indian polygamy as 'uncivilised'. 60 After the second world war, there were 7,300,000 more women than men in Germany (3.3 million of them were widows). There were 100 men aged 20 to 30 for every 167 women in that age group. 61 Many of these women needed a man not only as a companion but also as a provider for the household in a time of unprecedented misery and hardship. The soldiers of the victorious Allied Armies exploited these women's vulnerability. Many young girls and widows had liaisons with members of the occupying forces. Many American and British soldiers paid for their pleasures in cigarettes, chocolate, and bread. Children were overjoyed at the gifts these strangers brought. A 10 year old boy on hearing of such gifts from other children wished from all his heart for an 'Englishman' for his mother so that she need not go hungry any longer. 62 We have to ask our own conscience at this point: What is more dignifying to a woman? An accepted and respected second wife as in the native Indians' approach, or a virtual prostitute as in the 'civilised' Allies approach? In other words, what is more dignifying to a woman, the Quranic prescription or the theology based on the culture of the Roman Empire?

It is interesting to note that in an international youth conference held in Munich in 1948 the problem of the highly unbalanced sex ratio in Germany was discussed. When it became clear that no solution could be agreed upon, some participants suggested polygamy. The initial reaction of the gathering was a mixture of shock and disgust. However, after a careful study of the proposal, the participants agreed that it was the only possible solution. Consequently, polygamy was included among the conference final recommendations. 63

The world today possesses more weapons of mass destruction than ever before and the European churches might, sooner or later, be obliged to accept polygamy as the only way out. Father Hillman has thoughtfully recognized this fact, "It is quite conceivable that these genocidal techniques (nuclear, biological, chemical..) could produce so drastic an imbalance among the sexes that plural marriage would become a necessary means of survival....Then contrary to previous custom and law, an overriding natural and moral inclination might arise in favour of polygamy. In such a situation, theologians and church leaders would quickly produce weighty reasons and biblical texts to justify a new conception of marriage." 64

To the present day, polygamy continues to be a viable solution to some of the social ills of modern societies. The communal obligations that the Quran mentions in association with the permission of polygamy are more visible at present in some Western societies than in Africa. For example, In the United States today, there is a severe gender crisis in the black community. One out of every twenty young black males may die before reaching the age of 21. For those between 20 and 35 years of age, homicide is the leading cause of death. 65 Besides, many young black males are unemployed, in jail, or on dope. 66 As a result, one in four black women, at age 40, has never married, as compared with one in ten white women. 67 Moreover, many young black females become single mothers before the age of 20 and find themselves in need of providers. The end result of these tragic circumstances is that an increasing number of black women are engaged in what is called 'man-sharing'. 68 That is, many of these hapless single black women are involved in affairs with married men. The wives are often unaware of the fact that other women are 'sharing' their husbands with them. Some observers of the crisis of man-sharing in the African American community strongly recommend consensual polygamy as a temporary answer to the shortage of black males until more comprehensive reforms in the American society at large are undertaken. 69 By consensual polygamy they mean a polygamy that is sanctioned by the community and to which all the parties involved have agreed, as opposed to the usually secret man-sharing which is detrimental both to the wife and to the community in general. The problem of man-sharing in the African American community was the topic of a panel discussion held at Temple University in Philadelphia on January 27, 1993. 70 Some of the speakers recommended polygamy as one potential remedy for the crisis. They also suggested that polygamy should not be banned by law, particularly in a society that tolerates prostitution and mistresses. The comment of one woman from the audience that African Americans needed to learn from Africa where polygamy was responsibly practiced elicited enthusiastic applause.

Philip Kilbride, an American anthropologist of Roman Catholic heritage, in his provocative book, Plural marriage for our time, proposes polygamy as a solution to some of the ills of the American society at large. He argues that plural marriage may serve as a potential alternative for divorce in many cases in order to obviate the damaging impact of divorce on many children. He maintains that many divorces are caused by the rampant extramarital affairs in the American society. According to Kilbride, ending an extramarital affair in a polygamous marriage, rather than in a divorce, is better for the children, "Children would be better served if family augmentation rather than only separation and dissolution were seen as options." Moreover, he suggests that other groups will also benefit from plural marriage such as: elderly women who face a chronic shortage of men and the African Americans who are involved in man-sharing. 71

In 1987, a poll conducted by the student newspaper at the university of California at Berkeley asked the students whether they agreed that men should be allowed by law to have more than one wife in response to a perceived shortage of male marriage candidates in California. Almost all of the students polled approved of the idea. One female student even stated that a polyganous marriage would fulfil her emotional and physical needs while giving her greater freedom than a monogamous union. 72 In fact, this same argument is also used by the few remaining fundamentalist Mormon women who still practice polygamy in the U.S. They believe that polygamy is an ideal way for a woman to have both a career and children since the wives help each other care for the children. 73

It has to be added that polygamy in Islam is a matter of mutual consent. No one can force a woman to marry a married man. Besides, the wife has the right to stipulate that her husband must not marry any other woman as a second wife. 74 The Bible, on the other hand, sometimes resorts to forcible polygamy. A childless widow must marry her husband's brother, even if he is already married (see the "Plight of Widows" section),regardless of her consent (Genesis 38:8-10).

It should be noted that in many Muslim societies today the practice of polygamy is rare since the gap between the numbers of both sexes is not huge. One can, safely, say that the rate of polygamous marriages in the Muslim world is much less than the rate of extramarital affairs in the West. In other words, men in the Muslim world today are far more strictly monogamous than men in the Western world.

Billy Graham, the eminent Christian evangelist has recognized this fact: "Christianity cannot compromise on the question of polygamy. If present-day Christianity cannot do so, it is to its own detriment. Islam has permitted polygamy as a solution to social ills and has allowed a certain degree of latitude to human nature but only within the strictly defined framework of the law. Christian countries make a great show of monogamy, but actually they practice polygamy. No one is unaware of the part mistresses play in Western society. In this respect Islam is a fundamentally honest religion, and permits a Muslim to marry a second wife if he must, but strictly forbids all clandestine amatory associations in order to safeguard the moral probity of the community." 75

It is of interest to note that many, non-Muslim as well as Muslim, countries in the world today have outlawed polygamy. Taking a second wife, even with the free consent of the first wife, is a violation of the law. On the other hand, cheating on the wife, without her knowledge or consent, is perfectly legitimate as far as the law is concerned! What is the legal wisdom behind such a contradiction? Is the law designed to reward deception and punish honesty? It is one of the unfathomable paradoxes of our modern 'civilised' world.
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:31 AM | Show all posts
Bukanlah perkara kebajikan itu hanya kamu menghadapkan muka ke pihak timur dan barat, tetapi kebajikan itu ialah:

berimannya seseorang kepada Allah
dan hari akhirat
dan segala malaikat
dan segala Kitab
dan sekalian Nabi
dan mendermanya seseorang akan hartanya sedang dia menyayanginya kepada kaum kerabat dan anak-anak yatim dan orang-orang miskin dan orang yang terlantar dalam perjalanan dan kepada orang-orang yang meminta
dan untuk memerdekakan hamba-hamba abdi
dan mengerjanya seseorang akan sembahyang
serta mengeluarkan zakat
dan perbuatan orang-orang yang menyempurnakan janjinya apabila mereka membuat perjanjian
dan ketabahan orang-orang yang sabar dalam masa kesempitan dan dalam masa kesakitan dan juga dalam masa bertempur dalam perjuangan perang Sabil.

(Orang-orang yang demikian sifatnya), mereka itulah orang-orang yang benar (beriman dan mengerjakan kebajikan) dan mereka itulah juga orang-orang yang bertakwa.

(Q 2:177)
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:39 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-4-5 09:10 AM:
What does the above verse has to do with sex slavery in Islam.

Besides, sura 49:13 above does not make sense at all.
Don't yu think people will know each other better had allah not created different tribes and races?


it has got nothing to do with ur accusation.

well, don't think u should blame god for creating races. the point is we are all the same. originated from a person. there is no such thing as chosen people.

...Surely the most honourable of you with Allah
is the one who is most pious among you;
surely Allah Is All-Knowing & Aware.
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:52 AM | Show all posts
Thats where yu are wrong, the creation of races was not God but man's fault.

And it still doesn't explain the issue of
1. sex slavery in islam
2. how sura  49:13 can claim that allah created tribes & races so that people can know each other better.
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:53 AM | Show all posts
BTW, Wicked still did nothing to explain the issue of sex slavery in islam.
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WICKED This user has been deleted
Post time 5-4-2004 09:57 AM | Show all posts
WOMEN IN ISLAM

DOWRY IN THE QURAN

the word Dowry. What is its Quranic meaning implied and applied and give an example there of?

Let us study the following verses from the Quran which will , God willing, enable us to understand what God wants us to learn of the word 'Dowry.' The relevant words have been highlighted for emphasis.  

[4:4]
You shall give the women their due dowries, equitably. If they willingly forfeit anything, then you may accept it; it is rightfully yours.


Mutual Attraction And Dowry Required

[4:24]
Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you. These are GOD's commandments to you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.                                 
  
[4:25]
Those among you who cannot afford to marry free believing women, may marry believing slave women. GOD knows best about our belief, and you are equal to one another, as far as belief is concerned. You shall obtain permission from their guardians before you marry them, and pay them their due dowry equitably. They shall maintain moral behavior, by not committing adultery, or having secret lovers. Once they are freed through marriage, if they commit adultery, their punishment shall be half of that for the free women. Marrying a slave shall be a last resort for those unable to wait. To be patient is better for you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.     
  
[33:50]
O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


From the above we learn that:

1. dowry is a pre-requisite for a marriage,
2. is to be paid by husband to his wife,
3. should be equitable,
4. the husband and wife can mutually make any adjustment to the dowry,
5. forfeiting of the dowry does not apply to believers.


Although I do not find in the Quran any support for payment of dowry in cash only, I do not think that dowry could be something which does not have a monetary value thereto. It cannot be love, honesty, being faithful, etc. which are anyway traits of righteous people. This conclusion can be drawn from the verses which deal with giving back / forfeiting dowry in certain circumstances. Dowry could thus be paid in kind as well but it should be something which has a monetary value.
What is an equitable dowry is what one has to assess for himself. It depends on case to case. The rich as he can and the poor as he can. This should not be abused for God hold us responsible for our innermost intention. When we are committing our deeds with an intention to please Him, He will guide us to do the right thing.
Although one may get a feeling that there is an escape to dowry in view of verse 4:4 - You shall give the women their due dowries, equitably. If they willingly forfeit anything, then you may accept it; it is rightfully yours., it is actually not so.
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Post time 5-4-2004 09:59 AM | Show all posts
Still doesn't explain away the issue of sex slavery in islam.
looks like Wicked is desperately trying to detract from the issue.

peace
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