Second Chance

mbhcsf

regardles of the number of chances given, we should always i think be generous in giving the second chances to anyone that we think is capable to improve and develop themselves. Should it be a result of failure in something or whatever have you, it is just becoz God has  a better idea how to make you a better person later. So be it X chances pun, the things that matter is that you'll definately learnt something,kan?

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 12-1-2008 07:18 PM ]

Agul

Dry wits...


I think my-alja probably lived in UK sometime past... and you too...

blastoff

when we give a 2nd chance to other people , with the expectation that they would change their wrongful ways , then we are bound to be dissappointed for sure , in my opinion la because people just don't change their behaviour that sudden and we can't change people , we human are not granted by God the ability to change other people at will . So why bother giving other people a 2nd chance then ? It's better for us to just let them know how we feel about it (so that they would be aware of their wrongful ways and how much we dislike it ), forgive them , learn from what happened and move on . When we realize that we have the power to control ourselves but we have no power to change others then we will expect less from others and we can start focusing more on what we can do to make things better rather than what others can do to suit our needs ... but we must always give ourself endless chances in life because of the fact that we can change ourselves , hard work and strong determination will ensure our success in changing ourselves for the better no doubt , with the help from God of course .

[ Last edited by  blastoff at 13-1-2008 06:53 PM ]

hamizao

Just how DO you pick up lawyers from this forum..?

hamizao

How would  we know that a person can change?

If we keep on giving him another chance again and again, others may construe it as being tolerant. Tolerate everything and you would be in for a lot of trouble. The guru says that when people try to live or work together, they have to decide what sort of things they will put up with. The group that puts up with everything eventually kills itself.

My take is that some mistakes are tolerable......perhaps once. But in some instances a bad judgement can be costly and all you can have is one chance. So, I beg to differ........no, you do not give second chance generously...........

033589

i donno..just an intinct plus wild guessing..

mbhcsf

the answer is -  we never know. However that someone will probably need to know whether he should change or improving himself, right?

Well, we "just" giving him the chance to let him bring out the best in him and if and only if he had learnt from the past mistakes. However, if  he still repeatedly making the same mistake again, then it'll be his loss lah.we just provided him the means and the space, platform for him to improve himself.


sometimes, i think we need to look at the context, in which particular situation we are referring to. In academic settings , then , i think most of the prof will have to look at many angles in giving second chance and usually they do grantthe second chance. In this case, i am of the opinion that the so called second chances should be given.One cannot be too severe or rigid in setting up the rules ni.

in cases like drug addiction, juvenile deliquencies, social problems, etc well , again depends on the context, again chances should be given but again the one who is gonna buck up is that person. So to be ort not to be ? it 'll be his call.  I am not gonna lose anything. I just smiled.

and you just wonder, if Prof Christian Neethling Baarnard was not  being  given the second chance or the confidence or even just a nudge on the shoulder to get on with the grief of losing a boy on the operation table (as the result of his mistake by the way)  by his mentor prof, Prof Jeannie Louw,  then ,i would think he probably  won't make the headlines in  Nov  4th, 1969 at Grroote Schuur Hospital South Africa.Second chance are for those with courage, passion and perseverance. Insya Allah.So true, in this context, yes second chances should be given.

same goes to richard Eipstein ( a surgeon  think )story.

but what would be th end effect of those who had not been granted the second chance? hmm i just wondering. Any answer?

in constrast to the success story of Prof Christ Baarnard, then there was also another  well, roughly quite a similar case involving a team of cardiothoracic surgeon, only this time the victims were babies o several months of age ( may be). The team was alleged on experimenting a new heart procedure and this has caused a significant mortality rate among babies who had undergone that cardiac operation to rectify heart defects. One anaesthetist, who had already witnessed too many death on the table then finally conduct a query, and disclose the finding to the highest authority. So later the team had been under investigation etc. So googling Dr Desmana or Bristol Babies Hospital would be of help kot to understand more about the actual case for anyone interested.


So, based on the above examples, to grant or not this so called the second chances  is pretty much a grey area. But, either way, we as learnt humancould always tease out the lesson behind this.

probably, the concrete answer is we do not know but what could we do is to fascilitate or support. The hard work  of redeeming, will be on their shoulders really.

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 14-1-2008 09:59 PM ]

amazed

In referring to this thread let's take a look at Second Chance Program. Interesting.


Giving youth a second chance at life




THE Second Chance Programme is the brainchild of Putera Umno as a way to counter social ills.

[table=200][/table]Initiated by Putera Umno chairman Datuk Abdul Azeez Abdul Rahim two years ago, it is a programme targeted at those aged between 18 and 25 who did not have the opportunity to pursue their education.

"My job is to reach out to this group of youngsters and many Mat Rempit fall in this category," said Azeez.

The programme, funded by the Youth and Sports Ministry and the Human Resources Ministry, provides free education and working opportunities to the targeted youth.

"We want to help the unemployed and unskilled youth who work at petty jobs, including pump operators in petrol stations," said Azeez.
The programme offers 10 technical modules, including automotive, hotel management, wood carving, nursing, paramedic and computers. The courses are conducted jointly with 44 private training centres.

"We offer technical courses to attract the attention of our targeted group as those in the group are more interested in technical-based training.

"Even if they do not have the required academic qualification, we will still place them in colleges," Azeez said.

Putera Umno has so far gone to 17 parliamentary constituencies to register participants and its target is to visit all 191 parliamentary areas to register an estimated 15,000 youths.

So far, about 3,000 youths are pursuing various courses while some have graduated. Mat Rempit make up about 80 per cent.

"We work through the residents' associations and Pemuda Umno division heads," Azeez said.

With the existence of the Putera Umno Second Chance programme, he said there should no longer be an excuse for troubled youth not to turn over a new leaf.

"Before, nobody approached the Mat Rempit but now, a number of them have changed for the better because they have been given a chance to improve their lives."

lealaurielle

hamizao

...but what would be th end effect of those who had not been granted the second chance? hmm i just wondering. Any answer? You just took the words from my mouth. I think with regard to what could happen on the operating table, where it is a matter of life and death, where if wou don't do anything it would mean sure death, then even if there is the slightest chance of success then it would still be worth giving/taking. I am in on calculated chance. Giving chance for no obvious reason amounts to foolishness .....a forgone conclusion. So what happens when second chance is not granted? Well, I think it depends on the issue at hand. Some kind of "punishment" may be meted out with the intention that the perpetrator would learn the lesson and reform........For trespasses which have formal rulings may results in fines, jail sentences, banishments. court marsiolled etc. Children may be "grounded" or receive other homefront disiplines. The above come to mind first..............

mbhcsf

for certain behavioural management those Pavlov / skinner whatever principals could be applied anyway. That 's ok.So  the elements of punishment and reward would work well in those terms.itu situasi mudah.

hamizao

That is true indeed..........For more complicated situations, what then ya?:re:

Any example?

dutchy

Second chance are for those with courage, passion and perseverance. Insya Allah.So true, in this context, yes second chances should be given

agreed, while we see ourselves as being some kind of a saviiour, by extending the grace of a second chance, do pause for a while and think about the person that did wrong in the first place, or we for that matter, like i say in my previous post, to err is human, why not give a second chance when it merits to be given one

being in a world nowadays that are quick to sentence someone when wronged are done, aren't we being a tad too neurotic and see ourselves as being holier than thou?

dutchy

BTW maisara and Agul,. thanks for the warm welcome, and am glad to be homee   

thamrong

It depends on the situation. If a person is under probation I don't take any prisoner. Plain and simple.

hamizao

In that situation the faster you separate the grain from the chaff, the better off you'd be.

thamrong

Nip in the bud.

mbhcsf

the not so easy situation would probably related with you know prognostic, indicators etc like


would u resuscitate a 79 yr old chronically ill lady or a gentleman who has been admitted in the ICU?

would u sent the severely premature baby to Neonatal special Care Baby UNit ( NICU / Scabu) knowing that those baby would have poor viability/ survival rat ewould be  slim lah, and having loads of risks of becoming amultiple handicappd beings - learning disability, blindness etc


would u consider of granting  a gentlean who is smoking, diabetic etc  and had one bypass surgery done previously another chance of having CABG ( coronary artery bypass graft) ??? ( typical citizen not bearing any gelaran lah)

reasrch has shown - ni kalau pi evidenced based and with limited resources ( cth NHS UK) dah tak payah buat kat org sebegin.


so you see, thsi situation is pretty tricky and it concerns with medical ethics.



unrelated situation but worth pondering..

presume a set of parents had a defected gene thatcould cause a serious inherited genetic defectlah

the parents had been to genetic counselling and being counselled on the natureof the condition.

Then they posed a question - would i am able to know whether my children are free of that gene or may i know which one is the carrier ?

Would u as the child in teh family ( let say age below 18 / 16 below age of consent) will have any say on this ?like

i wouldn't want to know! It 's my privacy. It's my human right ...

or tak per lah ( ni tipikal Malaysian) aper aper jer lah...



cam ner ?

[ Last edited by  mbhcsf at 25-1-2008 12:25 AM ]

hamizao

You are right, medical cases are much more ruled by ethics. Where life and death are at stake, life is usually given the consideration. If it's between the ocean and the deep blue sea , people still need to know that everything is being done..........so tendency for people to just do something to sooth the feelings of others especially next- of- kins. within available resources.  Ultimately, the decision may lie with them too but they need to be told of the situation/truth as  iknown.