Bagaimana naga keluar api

weta_studio

Jika naga ni wujud dan naga betul2 boleh mengeluarkan api dari mulut.Camner naga boleh keluar api dari mulut tanpa membakar lidah,mulut dan kulit naga tersebut.Adakah dlm perut naga minyak ke?boleh terangkan secara ilmiah jika ianya betul2 terjadi.

bobok

gas methane kalau compress memang boleh combust. so dia sedut udara pakai mulut bagi gas dlm perut dia compress, lepas tu bila dah menyala (dia rasa perut dia panas) dia sembur lah.

sembur api tu standard lah, manusia boleh buat. bukan kau nak panggang, kau sembur jer. tak pernah pegi funfair tengok org sembur api ke?

nak tau lagi pasal naga?
family: reptilia
habitat: kawah gunung berapi aktif
musim mengawan: selang beberapa ratus tahun bila larva paras minimum sbb telur & anak naga tak tahan panas.
diet: binatang mcm rusa, oxen, termasuk beruang. cuma makan binatang herbivore. naga tak kuat makan sbb dia boleh dpt tenaga dari kepanasan larva tu. dia ada gak minum larva tu utk enhance teknik pernafasan berapi dia. cuma naga betina yg memburu. naga jantan yg solo jer memburu, kalau ada family, yg bentina memburu.
perangai: very teritorial, mcm kucing jantan tgh galak. deria bau yg kuat mcm anjing, boleh kenal binatang apa guna bau jer.

konsep flight naga mcm burung layang-layang. kalau dari tanah tak boleh terbang. dia kena lompat dari atas. kalau dari sarang dia, initial lift tu dari haba gunung berapi -- udara panas tolak atas

so apa lagi soalan pasal naga?

ibnur

mungkin macam kunang-kunang mengeluarkan cahaya.

vixen

Originally posted by sayap at 22-6-2006 06:00 PM
gas methane kalau compress memang boleh combust.so dia sedut udara pakai mulut bagi gas dlm perut dia compress, lepas tu bila dah menyala (dia rasa perut dia panas) dia sembur lah.

Nonsense.Compressed methane cannot combust on its own! Methane is flammable but pretty much unreactive.You would still need a reliable way to ignite the pressurized gas.So how would you explain this?

[ Last edited by  vixen at 22-6-2006 10:37 PM ]

bobok

cuba tanya drebar lori bila last time dia tukar spark plug dia.

principle yg sama utk mana2 flammable liquid.

and the bad news is, diesel sangat tidak reactive. i mean the bad news to you.

i spent 8 years in phyiscs dept. how long have you?

Originally posted by vixen at 22-6-2006 10:35 PM

Nonsense.Compressed methane cannot combust on its own! Methane is flammable but pretty much unreactive.You would still need a reliable way to ignite the pressurized gas.So how would you explain t ...

bobok

in combined gas law, pV/T = k

where p = pressure
V = volume
T = temperature
k is a constant (melayu cakap konstant kan?)

if u manage to finish form 3, u can see that you can rewrite the equation above as

pV = Tk

form this equation, u can see, if u uncrease the value of p, in order for k to remain constant, the T will increase.

combustion is chemical reactions between fuel and an oxidant resulting in heat or both heat and light in the form of either a glow or flames.

flames is the resulting of combustion, and not necessarily required to start the combustion itself.

then what start the combustion? you need fuel, oxidant, and .......

certain temperature, that is, flash point for the fuel used.

flash point is the lowest temperature at which fuel can form an ignitable mixture with air. again, note that the iginition is NOT the source of the combustion. it merely the result of combustion itself.

u might ask then why people use matches to light their stove, or why we use spark plug in our petrol engine?

simple, because we need to raise the temperature to the flash point of the fuel to start the combustion.

but in diesal engine, if u can raise the pressure high enough to raise the temperature to the flash point of diesel, you don't need to ignite it. instead, u get ignition as the result.

same principle as what happen in that damn dragon's stomach. if the dragon inhale enough air, u will be burn.

bobok

u don't believe me? u think i made this up?

read this. suitable for 15 years old.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm

Sephiroth

Hehehehe ... Physics Expert.

Ini baru dikatakan pendapat bernas. :clap:

chuckiey

kirenye naga ni betul2 wujud la ye..

vixen

I am talking about PURE methane,which has a very high flash point and very difficult to self-ignite.

Try to LEARN the reason why pure methane is never used in a compression-ignition without major modifications to the engine.

ibnur

aku rasa kalau bo-bok punya teori tu kena modify sikit.  letak pilot light kat gigi naga.
methane tu boleh diproduce melalui proses penghadaman makanan yang tak sihat.
pastu instead of kentut dia sedawa kuat-kuat.

macam kat funfair jugak la, sembur minyak dan letak bara api depan mulut.

apa la korang ni, cerita macam ni pun nak gadoh ke?  reka jer la apa-apa.  bukan real pun.

Sephiroth

by chuckiey   

kirenye naga ni betul2 wujud la ye..   

Naga itu memang wujud, tetapi hanya mereka2 yg terpilih je boleh tengok  dgn mata kasar ataupun melalui perantaraan lain spt mimpi.

Kekuatan minda dan Spiritual seseorang menentukan samada seseorang itu cukup "kuat" atau tidak utk menatap Naga dan bukan semua orang itu kuat.


by vixen   

Try to LEARN the reason why pure methane is never used in a compression-ignition without major modifications to the engine.   

When means that Methane can be used IF the engine is modified, right? That means it can ignite in condition that it has proper "firing mechanism".

vixen

Yes,correct.

Natural gas is almost methane in its entirety.With methane's combustion characteristic,I think it is not feasible just to rely on heat generated by compression.We need some ignition-mechanism.

This is what I was getting at before that blabbering-illiterate started attacking me personally.

[ Last edited by  vixen at 23-6-2006 01:52 PM ]

weta_studio

Originally posted by sayap at 22-6-2006 06:00 PM
gas methane kalau compress memang boleh combust. so dia sedut udara pakai mulut bagi gas dlm perut dia compress, lepas tu bila dah menyala (dia rasa perut dia panas) dia sembur lah.

sembur api t ...

jawapan yg bernas :clap:

but aku ada soalan lagi..

1.Sejak umur berapa seekor naga boleh mengeluarkan api?adakah dilatih oleh emak/ayah naga

2.Umur seekor naga boleh hidup?

3.Dan adakah naga mampu keluarkan api dari mulut time naga dah tua?

4.Adakah naga mempunyai spesis yang lain tapi masih dlm kategori naga?

Sephiroth

by vixen   

Natural gas is almost methane in its entirety.With methane's combustion characteristic,I think it is not feasible just to rely on heat generated by compression.We need some ignition-mechanism.

This is what I was getting at before that blabbering-illiterate started attacking me personally.

Explain Ignition-Mechanism. :hmm:
What is the characteristic of an Ignition-Mechanism? It can be anything, not necessary a Dragon's mouth.

In documentary about Dragons in Astro last time, they said that gases produced from decomposing meat and other food stuff in the stomach comes out of the mouth and sparks from the teeth could ignite them, thus producing a fire-breathing effect.

Can sparks from the teeth act as a ignition-mechanism? :hmm:

orang_awam

kalau ikutkan gas methane tak boleh terbakar dengan sendiri pada normal temperature.
methane punya auto-ignition temperature dlm 500癈

kalau temperature biasa dia kena bercampur dgn udara.
dia ada upper flammable limit (UFL) and lower flammable limit (LFL) maknanya kalau gas methane tu rich sangat dlm udara melebihi UFL tak boleh terbakar.

utk methane LFL = 5%, UFL = 15% (volume methane / volume air)

vixen

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 23-6-2006 03:12 PM

1.Explain Ignition-Mechanism.What is the characteristic of an Ignition-Mechanism?

2.Can sparks from the teeth act as a ignition-mechanism?  

1.Explain what about it? Design? Just think of it as spark plugs for ignition like used in any 'SI' CNG powered engine.

2.Yes I suppose so,like cracking two stones together.Maybe the dragon gnashing his teeth together to make sparks could ignite the methane gas.

But I feel that your proposed teeth-gnashing as ignition-mechanism sounds a bit unreliable if the flame is the dragon's defense.

Maybe the dragon could have a slightly more efficient and reliable mechanism like teeth with piezoelectric properties that could produce electric sparks to ignite the methane ..hmmmm

Sephiroth

by vixen   

1.Explain what about it? Design? Just think of it as spark plugs for ignition like used in any 'SI' CNG powered engine.

IF the design of this Ignition mechanism is something like a Spark plug, then I don't think the temperature need to rise 500 celsius for an ignition. Spark plugs in a car does not require such setup yet it could start an engine quite well.

If I understand engines properly, it just needs compression of a fuel source, a chamber from where this compression could occur and a "spark plug".

Fuel? Methane or other gases in the Dragon's stomach.
Chamber? The Neck seems to be a suitable place, especially since people also could control their breathing and even stop breathing for a few seconds by compressing their abdomen muscle (at least I could).
And Spark plug? Those teeth gnashing thing works.

2.Yes I suppose so,like cracking two stones together.Maybe the dragon gnashing his teeth together to make sparks could ignite the methane gas.

But I feel that your proposed teeth-gnashing as ignition-mechanism sounds a bit unreliable if the flame is the dragon's defense.

And what's wrong with flames being dragon's defense? :stp:
And it is not my theory about teeth gnashing. It is something I picked up from National Geography.

Maybe the dragon could have a slightly more efficient and reliable mechanism like teeth with piezoelectric properties that could produce electric sparks to ignite the methane ..hmmmm  

Yup, who knows. Eels could generate electricity and direct it to its victim, so who knows what ignition mechanism a Dragon has. :hmm:

vixen

Sephiroth wrote:
And what's wrong with flames being dragon's defense?
When did I say using fire as defense is wrong? Kindly read properly.What I was saying is that using teeth to ignite the gas isn't a very reliable method.Have you ever tried knocking two flints together to create spark? If yes,then you ought to know how tedious and unreliable it is,and does not produce spark that easily.This is what I was addressing.

vixen

And Sephiroth if dragons are just spiritual or magical creatures to you then why are you trying to rationalize and find a biological basis for its fire-breathing ability? Maybe the dragon being a magical beast simply has some inherent magical ability(that defies scientific explanation) that it uses to exhale fire?

[ Last edited by  vixen at 27-6-2006 09:54 AM ]