Can Asia unite?

Antara pengakuan anda yg kononnya pernah ada perempuan macam itu dgn pengakuan2 melambak di majalah2 spt Variasari, surat khabar dan berita mengenai jenayah seksual kaum kamu ... kenyataan siapa yg boleh dipercayai?

pengakuan perempuan tu kepada aku adalah pengakuan peribadi...yang melambak dalam majalah tabloid spt Variasari tu untuk melariskan majalah...banyak kuah dari isi. Jadi kau terpedaya dgn variasari tu? tentu byk duit kau labur kpd sykt penerbitan tu kan. patut pun koent kau tak kenal kau lebih suka baca majalah tak berfaedah macam tu

Ini utk promosi Industri pelancungan ... komersial sahaja. Ianya tidak menunjjukan rupa Malaysia sebenarnya.

kau kata untuk komersial saja? promosi industri pelancongan? jadi sia2 lah kerajaan habiskan wang untuk buat promosi tu kalau tidak menggambarkan rupa Malaysia sebenar. Kalau Dato' Paduka Abdul Kadir bin Haji Sheik Fadzir dengar kau kata macam tu nahas kau nanti..dengan kau & ular2 kau tu dipijaknya..wakaka

Eokboy

Jangan kutuk sephiroth, ada hujah die yg tepat. Kene respek sephiroth punye pandangan gak walaupon die tak respek saya punye pandangan.

Sephiroth

by WICKED

pengakuan perempuan tu kepada aku adalah pengakuan peribadi...yang melambak dalam majalah tabloid spt Variasari tu untuk melariskan majalah...banyak kuah dari isi. Jadi kau terpedaya dgn variasari tu? tentu byk duit kau labur kpd sykt penerbitan tu kan. patut pun koent kau tak kenal kau lebih suka baca majalah tak berfaedah macam tu  

Habis yg dlm surat khabar mengenai lelaki rogol situ sini serta dlm TV pun utk lariskan TV dan surat khabar ke? Yg sampai bersongkok, bertudung ... yg jadi pelakon2 dlm video lucah itu semua pun utk publisiti ke? ;)

kau kata untuk komersial saja? promosi industri pelancongan? jadi sia2 lah kerajaan habiskan wang untuk buat promosi tu kalau tidak menggambarkan rupa Malaysia sebenar. Kalau Dato' Paduka Abdul Kadir bin Haji Sheik Fadzir dengar kau kata macam tu nahas kau nanti..dengan kau & ular2 kau tu dipijaknya..wakaka  

Hmph ... teringin juga saya nak jumpa Datuk Kadir itu. Nak tanya apasal tiba2 je dia hentikan gunakan iklan orang bukan Muslims menjalankan ibadat di Batu Caves, semasa Deepavalli dan Hari Wesak sejak SARS dulu. ;)

Dan memang benar ... apa yg mereka tunjjukan di arena dunia adalah lakunan semata2. Sebab itulah rancangan2 spt "Malaysian for Peace" semasa peperangan Iraq dulu pun gagal mendapat sambutan dr Non-Muslims kerana kami sudah muak dgn kamu.

Non-Muslims lebih suka duduk rumah bersama keluarga mereka dr melayan kerajaan dgn propaganda2 mereka semata2 kerana mereka nak menunjjuk2 kpd dunia Arab macam mana nak jadi Muslims yg baik. Kami dah MUAK dgn masalah kamu yg tak habis2.

kamu ni bercakap macam pemimpin DAP jer..emm siapa ya pemimpin tertinggi DAP berbangsa India??:stp:

Kalau Malaysian for Peace juga dilaksanakan bagi membantu krisis di Korea Utara, Sudan... mungkin non-Muslims akan percaya & turut serta. At this moment, it is NOT convincing at all but politics.

Sephiroth

by WICKED

kamu ni bercakap macam pemimpin DAP jer..emm siapa ya pemimpin tertinggi DAP berbangsa India??  

No idea ... politics and sports are two things I don't keep in touch, unless it is something interesting and general.


Adm_Cheng_Ho

Kalau Malaysian for Peace juga dilaksanakan bagi membantu krisis di Korea Utara, Sudan... mungkin non-Muslims akan percaya & turut serta. At this moment, it is NOT convincing at all but politics.

Yup and it proves that such activities doesn't solve any problems. After Afghan, it's Iraq. Then what else? How many times do we have to keep donating to solve their problems when new problems keep arising in midst of old one which is unresolved.

And have to remember also ... a lot of people don't agree with Malaysian government's role which it is playing now. It is one of the countries in NAM (which supposed to be neutral) but don't seems to keep itself neutral. And all this voicing up are effecting the economic as well.

Wicked,

doesnt your religion teach the believers to be good too? are you asking me to be good while your friends with the same faith as yours can be as bad as they want? is that what your religion teach you? whether im good or im nasty  it has nothing to do with my religion. That's my personality and nobody can change it but myself. before you give me an advice u better advise your friends truth.8 & debmey. Back off!

--> :spd:You don't READ my post huh? You see one remark made to you and you straight away blast back...OK, please read my post AGAIN!

"lease have the decency to check your facts instead of just shooting off your mouth. If you believe Islam is true for you, then all the best to you and be a good Muslim. You don't have to justify your faith by condemning others....and don't just give the crap that Debmey/Truth.8 are condemning Islam so you can do the same. Your application of your faith testifies to your beliefs(THIS ALSO APPLIES TO THEM!)."

--> Now, if you have read it, could you understand my statement or do I have to explain it to you?

whether im good or im nasty  it has nothing to do with my religion.

--> I don't believe it!!! Goodness, this is just more 'goodies' to illustrate your....integrity. I will restraint myself and leave it to that.

in other words, you agree with seph's idea that asians can include any culture from western countries like rome and roman catholic's practice but condemn whatever comes from islam?

--> FYI, I disagree with Seph on a few major thesis made in his arguments thus far but I haven't post anything on it because he is doing such a fine job at rebutting your replies, so I am just reading for amusement sake. We have disagreed on quite a few things but speaking from an objective viewpoint, his responses are way more convincing than yours.

Seph is having a debate. In fact he is having fun.

Yes. In a debate, some of the points being put forth are extreme. It pushes the opponent to the limit. The onus of opposition to a proposition is to try defend his cause or turn the table around if capable.

I may not agree with all of Seph's views that he propounds. But he certainly make a great challenge. Any takers had to pose a strong counter-argument to offset his charges with sound reason.

When 2 parties engages in heated argument, invective is to be expected. I see nothing wrong with it. It spices up the debate. It makes the exchange of views more challenging & interesting for readers & those involved.

IF it is part of the debate! Throwing personal insults & contempts contributes nothing to the debate is pointless.

Seraphim

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 27-5-2004 02:09 PM:
Kalau Malaysian for Peace juga dilaksanakan bagi membantu krisis di Korea Utara, Sudan... mungkin non-Muslims akan percaya & turut serta. At this moment, it is NOT convincing at all but politics.

These countries' conditions is nearly as bad as Iraq and Afghanistan or maybe even worse..Yet,never actually see Malaysian government giving aid to them...How sad :sad:

Eokboy

Yaa malaysia is very hipocrite, non aligned yea right, try switzerland.

his responses are way more convincing than yours.

In that way his responses are more convincing? he has projected to everyone of us how he hates Islam. Do you anti-Islam as well to agree with his response?

He must have inferiority complex because Islam is a dominant religion of Malaysia. Majority of bumiputeras are  malay & native ppl, and majority of Malay is  muslim community, and this people is like a threat to him and Islam is a threat to him. He wants to make a point as if Malay shouldnt be considered as bumiputera & those who choose Islam as their religion are not asians, the kind of feeling Lee Kuan Yew had when he decided to separate Singapore from joining Malaya. Well why dont he pack a bag & move to Singapre, in that country he must have more secured feeling.

Throwing personal insults & contempts contributes nothing to the debate is pointless.

I may throwing personal insult toward Seph but he has insulted muslims as a whole. he has insulted Islam, our religion. Did we ever insult hindusm? No i dont think so!

[ Last edited by WICKED on 28-5-2004 at 09:19 AM ]

Sephiroth

by WICKED

In that way his responses are more convincing? he has projected to everyone of us how he hates Islam. Do you anti-Islam as well to agree with his response?

No ... I'm telling non-Muslims (especially Asians) that Muslims are not from Asia so their problems are not ours. I'm not telling them to hate them.

This thread's title is whether or not Asians can be united or not, the answer - Yes, because Muslims are not Asian and Asians have been united for a long time and we can do so again as long as we do not bother with Muslims' problems.

He must have inferiority complex because 1. Islam is a dominant religion of Malaysia. 2. Majority of bumiputeras are  malay & native ppl, and majority of Malay is  muslim community, and this people is like a threat to him and Islam is a threat to him. He wants to make a point as if Malay shouldnt be considered as bumiputera & those who choose Islam as their religion are not asians, the kind of feeling Lee Kuan Yew had when he decided to separate Singapore from joining Malaya. Well why dont he pack a bag & move to Singapre, in that country he must have more secured feeling.

1. Dominant religion? Yes ... but its followers are like crap. History and social conditions NOW had shown us that Muslims, despite of being dominant species in this region, are dependant on non-Muslims for survival. Non-Muslims hold more on economic and social order and most likely to be more stable than Muslims.

2. I have already proven that Malays and the Bumiputeras are NOT Muslims. Malays are a race, originated from people from Funan who were non-Muslims. They CANNOT be Muslims thus calling Muslims Malays are wrong.

I may throwing personal insult toward Seph but he has insulted muslims as a whole. he has insulted Islam, our religion. Did we ever insult hindusm? No i dont think so!

Only people who are trapped by truth and no way of slittering out from their debates resort to insults. I have spoke the truth so I don't have to resort to insult (other than to call you "Haiwan" which is true the way you live).

And No ... I don't remember insulting your religion. When did I insult your religion?

Non-Muslims hold more on economic and social order and most likely to be more stable than Muslims.

do you have any proof? give me examples to show that non muslims from Indian community hold more on economic? what contribution indians have done for our economy?

I have already proven that Malays and the Bumiputeras are NOT Muslims. Malays are a race, originated from people from Funan who were non-Muslims.

are malays in Funan who are  non-muslims still exist?? show me the proof! I may like to visit them someday to see my mother's real ancestor.

[ Last edited by WICKED on 28-5-2004 at 12:46 PM ]

Sephiroth

by WICKED

do you have any proof? give me examples to show that non muslims from Indian community hold more on economic? what contribution indians have done for our economy?

There is no statics stating how many shops owned by Chinese and Indians in this country but you can see that some states (like Penang and JB) has remarkable growth because of non-muslims.

Take Terengganu, Kelantan and Pahang where majoriti are Muslims; are their growth as much as other states? No ... WHY?

And take history also ... WHO were the ones invited to open tin mines in Selangor, Perak and Kedah? Malays? No, Chinese from China and Singapore despite of the fact that malays exists there for ages.

Who were brought to work in Estates which became backbones for Malaysian economic after independance in 1957? malays? No, Indians.

Who was invited to open Ladang Gambir in Johor by Malay Sultan (Sultan Abu Bakar of Johor) around 1900s? Malays? No, Chinese.

So the fact is ... over the last 100 years, the growth of Malaya before independance and Malaysia after independance depends on non-Muslims. NOT Muslims.

are malays in Funan who are  non-muslims still exist?? show me the proof! I may like to visit them someday to see my mother's real ancestor.

I don't know who your ancestors were but direct descendance of the Funan people should be the orang Asli who still lives in the forests.

Malays are just a "suku" (tribes) which lives in the forest and due to their good fortune, quickly took over the country. Being Muslim is one of the reasons because Islam went to several small kingdoms and accepted there the same time Melaka did.

I cant deny the contribution made by indians & chinese for our economy but malays play their part too, so does natives ppl. We should contribute something to  our  country before we ask ourselve what our country contributes to us! You wouldnt be in Malaysia if chinese & indian immigrants were not invited to come over during the colonial term by british colony to work in a tin mines & rubber planting industry. I also cant deny that malays are infact originated from Funan and the tribes spread their breeds to Kepulauan Melayu including Malaysia but they were already in this country long before british colony took over & ruled the country, the reason why they have bumiputera status while you are not included!

Eokboy

Sephiroth is right, without non-malays, Malaysia won't have much. There are not many malay businessmen and entrepeneurs. Most rich malays are royalties, politicians and those who win contracts and sell them to other ppl for profit when they are the ones who are supposed to do what is entrusted to them, these people are caked with corruption. All of the above benefit from the hard working chinese money makers.

Anyway, sephiroth, maybe you can give the forumers here a solution to this problem. Do you want to make a strong point for malays to wake up and move, or do you want to gather enough power to oust the malays out of malaysia and send them to the middle east, since they are muslims and you say thats where they belong. You probably think that the former is near impossible, because we all know why.

[ Last edited by Eokboy on 28-5-2004 at 02:57 PM ]

yeah waiting for Seph's solution too. im sure he wants to gather such a power to oust the malays out of Malaysia & send them to the middle east, he is half way there to influence other non-malay forummers

Sephiroth

by WICKED

I cant deny the contribution made by indians & chinese for our economy but malays play their part too, so does natives ppl.

Mind telling me what did Malays contributed to Malaya/Malaysia (both before and after Independance) please?

We should contribute something to  our  country before we ask ourselve what our country contributes to us! You wouldnt be in Malaysia if chinese & indian immigrants were not invited to come over during the colonial term by british colony to work in a tin mines & rubber planting industry.

And Malaysia will not the fastest growing ex-colonial country in the Komanwel (next to Hong Kong, Singapore and India) if it wasn't for Us. Remember that.

I also cant deny that malays are infact originated from Funan and the tribes spread their breeds to Kepulauan Melayu including Malaysia but they were already in this country long before british colony took over & ruled the country, the reason why they have bumiputera status while you are not included!  

And did the government give what it should give to ALL Bumiputeras in equal status?

No ... I don't think so. I still see the Suku Kaums in Pahang, Perak, Terengganu and Kelantan who are living a poor life despite of having Bumiputera status.

In Sabah and Sarawak, it is a bit better than here because of the majority BUT that should change in the next few years now that BN (which is majority Muslims) begin to target West Malaysia as well.

And No, I don't remember asking for a Bumiputera status. I don't see what is the use of having such status. ;)


Eokboy

Anyway, sephiroth, maybe you can give the forumers here a solution to this problem. Do you want to make a strong point for malays to wake up and move, or do you want to gather enough power to oust the malays out of malaysia and send them to the middle east, since they are muslims and you say thats where they belong. You probably think that the former is near impossible, because we all know why.

Solution? This is not disease which we can find a cure easily. You cannot cure Muslims from their own laziness and Malays (genetically speaking) have been one of the laziest group in Asia. Which is why not many old kingdoms in malaya lasted more than couple of hundred of years.

Malays seems to have an attitude of "Kais pagi makan pagi, kais petang makan petang" - if they have something to eat, they swallow otherwise, it's fate kind of crap. They are not willing to work hard and happy to sit in the same place for ever.


by WICKED

yeah waiting for Seph's solution too. im sure he wants to gather such a power to oust the malays out of Malaysia & send them to the middle east, he is half way there to influence other non-malay forummers   

If you are a Muslims who came from Arab like we came from China and India, then we could cast you out like Muslims cast out Chinese from Indonesia or how Indians cast out Muslims from India in late 1940s.

However, your fore-fathers were born in this country before Islam came about so it is wrong for us to demand you to leave. We will respect your Bumiputera rights and your Kings' rights as well.

However, whether we will accept your as friends and neighbours ... that is OUR choice.
Whether we will accept you as our partners in our endavours ... that is OUR choice.

You will have to live on your own ... eat what you sow, defend yourself and learn things on your own. You will not be part of our culture, our heritage and you will not take the gains from our work like what you did for the last 500 years.

That is my solution. Let them live on their own or die trying. Don't support them in anything - economically, socially or politically which will be used against us and our children in the future like terrorism.

Eokboy

Yes malays have much to learn from other races but they simply don't want to. That's their problem. They are so lazy when it comes to work but very ethusiastic when it comes to play. They don't want to work but they want to play and enjoy all the time. Young chinese are pursuing their studies and working very hard while malay youth enjoy getting high smoking ganja and become GRO at clubs.

Seraphim

Originally posted by Eokboy at 28-5-2004 05:03 PM:
Yes malays have much to learn from other races but they simply don't want to. That's their problem. They are so lazy when it comes to work but very ethusiastic when it comes to play. They don't wan ...

I think most chinese like to extremely enjoy at some time..It's like when work they work and when they enjoy..they really enjoy..lol Anyway i knew some Chinese youths taking soft drugs also..