A List of Quranic Errors

juwaini

Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 3-7-2006 08:48 AM


unfortunately the behavior of a follower doesn't always reflect the true teaching of his religion.

so we need to look into their holy book?

I agree to look at the source of teaching the human being. For example of my own religion, for chinese, taoism, confucianism, and buddishm is the main religion of chinese. Most chinese in malaysia follow the taosim or confucianism. You will find that most chinese is selfish, money minded and ego. From my point of view, the taoism that follow by those follower doesnt learn that we must help other, and they just know that they need to voship the god.

But if you met some chinese/hindu/other that practice the teaching of buddism, they tend to help other doesn't care their religion. They are not money minded, some even do over by donating most of their money that over their ability (for me this is not good as well, you must at least have the ability to live first before you help other). So, do you know why most chinese doesn't help each other even in their own race now? Taosim does teach that money is nothing, is just kind of thing that human being created to measure something, but most follower even doesn't know that taoism teach that.

So, as a muslim, all follower must learn the holy book, so from the holy book they learn, we can know why they think like that. Thats the purpose i raise out this in this thread...

eastrun

Originally posted by eddom at 3-7-2006 09:09 AM
I agree to look at the source of teaching the human being. For example of my own religion, for chinese, taoism, confucianism, and buddishm is the main religion of chinese. Most chinese in malaysia  ...

THen,,,you can see the fruit of the religion...you can see which fruit suka mengungkit after they have helped other religion and etc...normally they are Christians

haha, i just raising out why buddism help other. I didnt said that christian doesn't or muslim doesn't, what i said is just an example. I also agree that the true christian follower are really very friendly in every sector, but one thing that i didnt like =.=" they also really tried hard to invite you into their religion as well.... cox they think that is another help offer as well... when they are really want to help you.... they start to critize on your religion... that is what i doesnt like... really

BeanDiesel

:hmm: it may be interesting to start a topic on how to evaluate a religion, whether it's fair to solely depend on the positive and/or negative behavior of its follower.

so, let's get back to the original topic.

juwaini

Originally posted by eddom at 3-7-2006 09:21 AM
haha, i just raising out why buddism help other. I didnt said that christian doesn't or muslim doesn't, what i said is just an example. I also agree that the true christian follower are really very friendly in every sector, but one thing that i didnt like =.=" they also really tried hard to invite you into their religion as well.... cox they think that is another help offer as well... when they are really want to help you.... they start to critize on your religion... that is what i doesnt like... really

helping another people should be done in a good manner
it's bad when there's intention to blow ur own trumpet
it's worse when u want 'balasan' for u good deeds
it's even worst if u do good deeds with intention to convert them...
if u're decent and good enough, the one who u're helping will attracted with ur decency
that's enough..
nobody like to be pushed in choosing religion...

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by POPOY at 3-7-2006 08:27 AM
Frm where u get all dis nonsense man? must be from from that guy Ali Sinner :geram:

Its not from Ali Sina. Its from the works of Muhammad Ibn Ishaq(died AD768).  
The book: The Life of Muhammad: Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah

If you hv money then buy the book and read it for yourself.. or read the online version..
here.. http://www.hraicjk.org/hadith/ibn_ishaq.html#introduction

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by juwaini at 3-7-2006 09:40 AM
helping another people should be done in a good manner
it's bad when there's intention to blow ur own trumpet
it's worse when u want 'balasan' for u good deeds
it's even worst if u do good d ...

Thats right. I agree with you 100%.

but I know many people who think they "dapat pahala" if they help others.

Not bad to fool people into helping others.. isn't it.

eastrun

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 3-7-2006 10:42 AM


Its not from Ali Sina. Its from the works of Muhammad Ibn Ishaq(died AD768).  
The book: The Life of Muhammad: Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah

If you hv money then buy the boo ...

Do you really read the book?.I don't think so..Don't just read one book. Read as many literatures as you can to gain your knowledge

juwaini

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 3-7-2006 10:56 AM


Thats right. I agree with you 100%.

but I know many people who think they "dapat pahala" if they help others.

Not bad to fool people into helping others.. isn't it.

yeah, hoping for pahala from God is not a bad thing
just like u want to get your salary from your boss every month..

juwaini

Originally posted by eastrun at 3-7-2006 10:57 AM


Do you really read the book?.I don't think so..Don't just read one book. Read as many literatures as you can to gain your knowledge

as long as he can use the same book to attack islam, he won't read any others...

By Faithhealer

You are wrong.. and you are twisting the story. You are trying potray the arab tribe Al-Aus(Aws) tribe as the jewish tribe Banu Qurayza. They are different people.

1. The jewish tribe Banu Qurayza was freinds of the Arab tribe Al-Aus( also spelled as Al-Aws)
2. Both tribes protect each others tribe in times of danger, until Muhammad come into the picture.
3. After the Jews surrendered, Muhammad wanted to kill them.
4. The arab tribe Aus protested.
5. So Muhammad asked the Aus tribe if they will accept the judgement from one of the Aus people. The Aus accepted.
6.So the cunning Muhammad choose his injured Jihad gangster, S'ad who is from the Aus tribe to pass the judgement. Later S'ad died from the injuries.
7. S'ad like a true barbarian gave the same judgement as Muhammad wanted, as Abu Lubabah had told the Banu Qurayza of their fate.
8. So all the adult males Jew of the Banu Qurayza was beheaded.. "kena pancung".. "potong kepala". the women and childrens become slaves.

Its obvious that a free thinker/atheist such as you shall pick and choose passages that you saw fit to condemn Islam and draw conclusions exactly as the  Sinner抯 writings.  Nothing new there.  Its very obvious too that you don抰 read all the links provided from the beginning till the end ( extracted  readily from Sinner抯 site)

You see in Islam, there抯 nothing to hide, no matter how much pain or bitter to swallow the facts, but one thing for sure ISLAM never lies, twists or hide the real facts for everyone to see  most importantly is the rational jugdement and heart to overview things in their correct perspective.  

But thereagain, sometimes its proven that translation works doesn抰 really match the originals especially when deriving the exact meaning of the words.  This opportunity to hit back is taken gladly by people such as you to jump to conclusion that suits your own agenda.   

Jewish Preference of Paganism to Islam


Their leaders Huyayy ibn Akhtab, Sallam ibn Abu al Huqayq, Kinanah ibn al Huqayq, together with Hawdhah ibn Qays and Abu `Ammar, both of the tribe of Banu Wail, went to Makkah for consultation with the Quraysh (pagan) leaders. When Huyayy was asked about his tribe, he told the Quraysh (pagan) that he had left them between Khaybar and Madinah awaiting the arrival of the Makkans (pagan) that they might join them in battle against Muhammad s.a.w and his companions. When the Makkans (pagan) inquired about Banu Qurayzah, he answered that they had remained within Madinah in order to plot against Muhammad and to spring against his men from behind once the Makkans launched their attack. The Quraysh (pagan) hesitated. They knew only too well that in the last analysis, there was no difference between them and Muhammad except in this matter of his new faith; and even in it, they were not quite certain that Muhammad was entirely wrong since his worldly power had been on the increase every day. The Quraysh (pagan) therefore asked the Jews to tell them, since they were the first People of the Book and held the keys of knowledge in the matters in which the Quraysh disagreed with Muhammad, whether or not Muhammad's religion was better than Makkan religion. The Jews answered by giving preference to Makkan (pagan) over Islam and to Makkan (pagan) rights over Muhammad's. It was to this that the Qur'an referred when it said, "Would you consider those who were given part of the scripture, that they believe in evil and injustice and commend to the unbelievers their own unbelief as guidance superior to the true faith of those who believed? Such men are accursed of God. And whosoever God curses, will never prevail. Nor will anyone ever come to his rescue." [Qur'an, 4:51-52] This attitude of the Jews toward Quraysh(pagan) and their favoring of the latter's paganism over the monotheism of Muhammad was the subject of a severe rebuke by Dr. Israel Wolfenson, who wrote in his The Jews in Arabia: "It was the duty of the Jews not to allow themselves to get involved in such a scandalous mistake. They should have never declared to the leaders of Quraysh (pagan) that the worship of idols was better than Islamic monotheism even if this were to imply frustration of their requests. The Jews, who have for centuries raised the banner of monotheism in the world among the pagan nations, who have remained true to the monotheistic traditions of the fathers, and who have suffered throughout history the greatest misfortunes, murders, and persecutions for the sake of their faith in the One God should, in loyalty to this tradition, have sacrificed every interest-nay their very lives-to bring about the downfall of paganism. Furthermore, by allying themselves with the pagans they were in fact fighting themselves and contradicting the teachings of the Torah which commands them to avoid, repudiate-indeed to fight-the pagans."

Huyayy's Responsibility for the Tragedy

We have seen how the lives of Banu Qurayzah were dependent upon Huyayy ibn al Akhtab. It was he who violated the covenant that he, himself, had entered into with Muhammad when the latter forced Banu al Nadir's evacuation from Madinah. Also, it was he who incited the Quraysh pagan, Ghatafan, and the other Arab tribes to fight Muhammad that he became the very embodiment of Jewish-Muslim enmity. It was he who indoctrinated the Jews with the idea that they should have no peace unless Muhammad s.a.w. and the Muslims were utterly destroyed. Likewise, it was he who inspired Banu Qurayzah to violate their covenant with Muhammad and to repudiate their neutrality in the struggle needlessly and at such terrible cost. Finally, it was he who came to the Banu Qurayzah after the withdrawal of the Makkan pagans and aroused them to engage the Muslims in a hopeless fight that was doomed before it started. Had the Banu Qurayzah acquiesced in the judgment of Muhammad s.a.w. from the first day, and acknowledged their mistake in violating their previous covenant, their lives would have been saved. Unfortunately, Huyayy's soul was possessed by a consuming Jewish enmity to the Muslims. He imparted such a measure of this enmity to the Bani Qurayzah that their own ally, Sa'd ibn Mu'adh, believed that even if they were forgiven, they would soon rally the tribes again to fight the Muslims anew. Such was their obsession with hatred of Muhammad and the Muslims that the Jews believed no life was worth living as long as the Muslim power was not broken and the Muslims were not subjugated or killed. However harsh the verdict which the arbitrator had reached in this regard, it was dictated by self-defense, as the arbitrator had become convinced that the presence or destruction of the Jews was a question of life and death for the Muslims as well.

Note regarding Ibn Hisham which I quoted the hadith passages in the earlier postings.



Ibn Hisham was well known Islamic historian and scholar who is still well known today, he lived somewhere in 750 CE and 834 CE. He edited Ibn Ishaq's biography of the prophet Muhammad (saw). He was born before al-Bukhari, Imam Muslim, Abu Dawud and Imam Thirmidhi were born. The hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud and Thirmidi were made during or after Ibn Hisham life. He did not make his own hadith collections but wrote several, and reliable, articles about particular events during the prophet (saw) life.




Quoting from Paul Grieve抯 book on Islam:
[quote]
During the siege [of Medina by various scheming Meccan leaders, their armies, and exiled Jews from Yathrib], the Jewish Qurayzah clan attempted to shed their promised neutrality, offering to let the confederate tribes into the oasis at Muhammad抯 rear, which would have been fatal to the entire Muslim cause. Once the enemy had departed, Muhammad besieged the Jewish forts, from which the tribe asked to be allowed to depart under the same conditions as had been applied to the an朜adir. Due to the mortal threat that the Jewish treachery had represented, this was refused, and a judge was appointed from an Arab tribe having connections to the Qurayzah to preside over a trial of the Jews. The sentence was death, justified ironically, by the application of the vengeful terms of the Book of Deuteronomy匸/quote]The decision厀as not unusual for either the times or the offence.

Truth.8

Originally posted by Iman_6 at 3-7-2006 02:45 PM

but one thing for sure ISLAM never lies, twists or hide the real facts

are u lying ? because muhammad says u can lie to protect islam.

stop  ur bull that islam never lie.

read the following link The Great Lie of Islam

As Mr. Sina has said, "Terrorism is not an ideology, it is a tool; but the terrorists kill for an ideology. They call that ideology Islam."

[ Last edited by  Truth.8 at 3-7-2006 03:42 PM ]

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 2-7-2006 09:07 PM

Quran is perfect.. perfect for 7th century arabians..  

The arab thought earth is like a bed spead out like a carpet.
The arab thought the moon is a light source.
The arab thought the sun ...

Common allegations from anti-muslim websites:

Allegation:

Quran 36: 38 And the sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Quran 36: 39 And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm leaf.
Quran 36: 40 It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

According to 36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).
The Sun is running hard behind the moon trying to catch up with her, but Allah would never let him do that. And therefore the night can never get a head of the day.

Sun runs behind a moon??? Sun has an orbit???
Notice Koran indicates, the earth is flat and still... because if the sun sets to take rest all night...and wakes up in the morning with the rest of us...the idea of earth being round and rotating ...falls flat.

036.038 وَالشَّمْسُ تَجْرِي لِمُسْتَقَرٍّ لَّهَا ذَلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ
036.038 And the sun runs his course for a period determined for him: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.
036.038 Wa(al)shshamsu tajree limustaqarrin lah[a] [tha]lika taqdeeru alAAazeezi alAAaleem(i)


The meaning is the Sun will remain in existence until Allah decides it should end/it will DIE/stop existing at a pre-determined time.





Tudrik be coincident with/share a location in space. The meaning is they cant crash or collide or overlap in orbits.
The point of verse 36.40 is this: "(وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ) " (each swims/travels in its own orbit) and hence none can crash with the other, to make it simpler for you, the verse says there are no overlapping Orbits between them. You are aware that with some planets/cellestial bodies there are overlapping orbits which can and will result in collisions.

Allah is saying each travels in its own orbit and none can crash with one another.

Infact, I would cite those as scientific accuracies because no one at the time would really have known that the orbits of the sun and the moon don't and will never overlap.

Now, let me show you a scientific accuracy in the very verse you cite as errors.

The purpose of the verse is to tell the unbelievers that they should be grateful. It is part of the verses that push forth the concept of Taskheer (making things useful and easier for us).
Re-read the verses carefully. They mention the day and night and the REASON for the day and night (sun and moon). Allah is saying, have i not made the day and night non-overlapping for you for your own convenience.

Read this carefully again and NOTICE The scientific miracle.

Had the sun and moon been put in any other kind of orbit, the day and night would have not been in their current steady 24 hour cycle. If for example the sun and moon ran in opposing orbits, you would have had a differing non constant duration for day and night. In some cases you would have had 23 hour days and 1 hour nights followed by 22 hour days followed by 2 hours nights all the way to 1 hour days and 23 hour nights and then the entire cycle repeated.
Now think what kinds of days and nights we would have had if the sun and moon ran in epileptic orbits and overlapping, orbits.

You see, if you read carefully you would find miracles where your wishful thinking found errors.

Another allegation:

its Allah confirming that Dhul Qarnayn travelled to the place where he saw sun setting in the muddy spring...There is no doubt that Allah thought otherwise.Or he would have corrected the notion...
In 36:38 Allah confirms this same beleif by saying Sun runs all day and than sets to take rest.

Lets see now.
First thing you ought to know is that the Qur'an is written in Arabic and to understand it properly you have to understand Arabic. Anyone who pretends they uderstand the concept of 'knowledge' itself would not over look that fact.

First, your error in "where he saw sun setting in the muddy spring."

The term used is Maghrib. Maghrib means sunset TIME not sunset LOCATION. The Location West is GHARB not Maghrib.
The root itself is GHRB (pronounced Ghrab) and also means west.
We pray 5 times a day, each prayer associated with a time of day. The third prayer is called Al Maghrib meaning sunset (time).

The verse says he walked until sunset.

018.086 حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِنْدَهَا قَوْمًا قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَنْ تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَنْ تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا
018.086 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
018.086 [H]att[a] i[tha] balagha maghriba a(l)shshamsi wajadah[a] taghrubu fee AAaynin [h]ami-atin wawajada AAindah[a] qawman quln[a] y[a] [tha] alqarnayni imm[a] an tuAAa[thth]iba wa-imm[a] an tattakhi[th]a feehim [h]usn[a](n)


Note: I wish to share this explanations from my learned muslim brother for those who care for the truths .

[ Last edited by  Iman_6 at 3-7-2006 03:52 PM ]

eastrun

Originally posted by Iman_6 at 3-7-2006 02:45 PM




Its obvious that a free thinker/atheist such as you shall pick and choose passages that you saw fit to condemn Islam and draw conclusions exactly as the  Sinner抯 writings.  Nothing new th ...

May Allah bless you Iman....That's my prayer for you..You have helped Muslims a lot to make explanation to the atheist

juwaini

Originally posted by eastrun at 3-7-2006 03:43 PM


May Allah bless you Iman....That's my prayer for you..You have helped Muslims a lot to make explanation to the atheist

yes, i don't have enough knowledge about sirah and hadith, that's why i don't want to say something i don't know
the only thing i can help is by using logic and idea to counter the accusation towards islam
i'm glad that someone like iman is here...

juwaini

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 3-7-2006 05:42 PM



are u lying ? because muhammad says u can lie to protect islam.

stop  ur bull that islam never lie.

read the following link The Great Lie of Islam

As Mr. Sina has said, "Terror ...

out of topic posting...
NEXT...

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Iman_6 at 3-7-2006 02:45 PM
Its obvious that a free thinker/atheist such as you shall pick and choose passages that you saw fit to condemn Islam and draw conclusions exactly as the  Sinner抯 writings.  Nothing new th ...

Iman_6 cut the crap.

I pick the subject where Muhammad committed genocide.. to show that Errors in Quran when it comes to Muhammad.  
Muslims claim this The Prophet Muhammad was introduced in the Quran with these words: And We have not sent you forth but as a mercy to mankind. (Quran 21:107)

He ain't no mercy to mankind but a violent destroyer as shown in the hadiths.He annihilated the Jewish tribe Banu Qurayza. Anyone with compasion will never do as what Muhammad had done to the Jews of medina. Chopping the heads of other humans who disagree with you is not a good thing to do. Can you imagine a man claiming to be the massenger of a merciful God but murdering the people who worship the same God.

Killing people who have surrendered is dartardly act.. If Bush killed the muslim prisoner in Guantanamo Bay prison, i am sure muslim would agree that its a dartardly act. The same thing here.. Muhammad killed captives.

The decision to fight or to friend Muhammad can onlt come from the leaders of the Banu Qurayza.. but to punish or kill all the males is a clear ATROCITY. Hadith reports that all those who had pubic hair are beheaded. Pubic hair start appearing in boys as young as 12 years old some even younger. I magine Muhammad supervising the beheading of 12year old boys.. and old mans.

Jezzzz what a way to get his hands on the Jewish people's property.

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390:
Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:  I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by juwaini at 3-7-2006 10:58 AM


yeah, hoping for pahala from God is not a bad thing
just like u want to get your salary from your boss every month..

Thats bad comparison lah dude.

Salary is real. Pahala is imaginary.

Laxamana.

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 3-7-2006 05:42 PM



are u lying ? because muhammad says u can lie to protect islam.

stop  ur bull that islam never lie.

read the following link The Great Lie of Islam

As Mr. Sina has said, "Terror ...

What kind of lie? Can you elaborate T8? Can you also elaborate about whether it is ok to make tricky moves in a fight?