THROUGH THE COMFORTER, WHO ARE THE REAL JEWS IN THE EYES OF GOD?

Truth.8

- one whom the disciples did not know, but one whom they
knew - the same Spirit that was in Jesus Christ!

Noun with an incorrect gender

In the Greek language (the language the New
Testament was written in) every noun has a gender. That
gender can be either masculine, feminine or neuter.
However, unlike English, this gender is applied rather
loosely without really considering whether an object is a
person or not. In Greek, it was common to use masculine
nouns to describe inanimate objects like a tree, the wind or
a table, even in French, a book is referred to as a "he".

Thus the original Greek text of the New Testament
uses "he" and "him" for the Spirit but it also uses "it" !
And it would depend on those translating those manuscripts
whether they would want to emphasize "he" or "it".

King James Version translators strongly influenced by
the Trinitarian doctrine often mistranslated and chose " he "
to denote the Holy Spirit, for example, in Acts 8:16, " For
as yet He (the Spirit) was fallen upon none of them ; only
they were baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus."

But elsewhere, they correctly used " it " as in Rom.
8:16," The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit. . .,"
in verse 26, " the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us "
and in 1 Peter 1:11, " it (the Spirit of Christ) testified. . ."

Because of these mistranslations and the grammatical
rules concerning the usage of Greek pronouns, it would be
wrong to conclude that the Spirit of God is a person just
because of the pronoun " he ".

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 11-1-2005 at 09:40 PM ]

Debmey

The Bible clearly says that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. Period.

nightlord

If Allah walks up to you and said he is God.

You would have crucified him as well.

Truth.8

Originally posted by POPOY at  04:23 PM:
TUMPANG LALU PAK... ;)

ADA SEDIKIT ADVERTISEMENT:



TempraKON S ...

u feel so funny about comforter and mocking it?? do u want ur life to be mocked??? do u want me  to wish that for u???

carefuly what u say next time. this time I ask my Father in Heaven and Christ to forgive u. next time ......:no:

don't mocked if u do not understand .

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: The Bible clearly says that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. Period.

Are you then insinuating that Jesus is lying about the nature of the Comforter in the verses below taken straight from a Bible?
John 16:7 - "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
John 16:8 - "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"
John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
John 16:14 - "He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

Debmey needs to seriously get down to the task of proving that what Jesus mentions of the coming Comforter in the verses above and what he [Debmey] assumes to be the correct interpretation of the Comforter as being the one and same Holy Spirit are one and the same corelation in narrative and form. Anything else is unacceptable.

Read again the above verses. Above all Truth's cut & pastes, Truth cannot even begin to explain the reality behind what Jesus is describing in the verses above which ironically are taken in full context from a legitimate Bible. [in whatever form you might want to use as reference] You believe the Bible and yet you do not believe what the Bible records of what Jesus says? How strange?

What tickles Fuzzman to the core is the accusation made by Debmey and Truth in that I'm trying to "Islamise" the Comforter issue. Now don't go taking out your frustrations on me if you people run flat out without knowing to this very day as to the establishment of your Comforter.  Might I suggest you accept Paul as the presumed Comforter or maybe psychologically you people very well know that Prophet Muhamad is just that Comforter? Something of course Jesus would readily admit that you people are not ready yet to accept the facts! [John 16:12]

ARI FUZZMAN

Truth.8

Spirit does not have its own personality

Jesus said, " But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes,
he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his
own ; he will speak only what he hears. . . . ." (John 16:13,
New International Version).'

According to Jesus, the Holy Spirit cannot function by
itself; it has to pick up or obtain material from a source.
Continuing, Jesus explained : " He will bring glory to Me
by taking what is Mine and making it known to you. All
that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the
Spirit will take from what is Mine and make if known to
you"(John 16:14-15,NIV)

From Jesus' own words we leam the Spirit has to pick
up spiritual input from Him and rehearse it to His disciples.
It absorbs the mind, the thoughts, the personality, the nature
of Jesus Christ and channels it to His servants. In a sense, it
is a recording instrument for Jesus Christ, it speaks only
when Jesus speaks and when Jesus does not speak, the
Spirit cannot speak by itself. This lack of individuality of
the Spirit tells us the Spirit alone cannot be a Person.
By itself the Spirit has no source, nor focus, it cannot
contribute nor work on its own, its source, its focus, its
repository, its origin, is Jesus Christ. The Spirit is power,
wisdom, energy, a divine wave, coming out from Jesus.Jesus explained the Spirit carried His personality - the
Spirit took from Jesus and showed it to His disciples. This
means the Spirit has a mind, BUT IS THE MIND OF.
JESUS, the Spirit carries a personality, BUT IT IS THE
PERSONALITY OF JESUS.

The Spirit gives wisdom, knowledge, character and
truth but all these are derived from its source - THE
PERSON AND THE BEING OF JESUS CHRIST !

Because Jesus dwells in the Father, belongs to the
Father and came out from the presence of the Father, the
Holy Spirit's ultimate source is the FATHER !

All this proves only one cold fact - the Spirit is not an
extra person of the Godhead but an EXTENSION of Jesus
Christ and God the Father !

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 12-1-2005 at 01:58 AM ]

Fuzzman

Truth wrote: All this proves only one cold fact - the Spirit is not an extra person of the Godhead but an EXTENSION of Jesus Christ and God the Father !

Thanks for your POV but Fuzzman knows only one thing here. Your response [although quite substantiating] doesn't hold water let alone be that "cold". You see the idea you're pushing here with regards to the identity and personafication of the Comforter has fallen short of expectations as you have failed to  show the flow between the both [Comforter and Holy Spirit]. In fact you did the otherwise by showing facts that work in direct opposites to your overview.

As Jesus had spoken so clearly [and having that well preserved and recorded too!] in John 16:13 which speaketh - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
- we can clearly understand the Comforter is not a "The Spirit is power,
wisdom, energy, a divine wave, coming out from Jesus." asa you had highlighted in Red or an "extension" of Jesus because from this verse, we see that the Comforter is a separate entity altogether from God or Jesus. Another Messenger to be more specific.

This promised Comforter SHALL ONLY SPEAK OF WHAT HE HEARS from either God or a direct servant of God. Now do you know of having at present writing such a person that fits this revealed expectation like a 3 piece suit? I can honestly tell you you don't have that in the past or present. So where is the promised Comforter by Biblical standards?

Your first line [in Red] in your response above summarises this argument very well. THE COMFORTER SHALL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN BUT ONLY OF WHAT HE HEARS. So by your faith, who do you think probably fits this description in entirety?

ARI FUZZMAN

ashna

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 12-1-2005 09:02 AM:

Thanks for your POV but Fuzzman knows only one thing here. Your response [although quite substantiating] doesn't hold water let alone be that "cold". You see the  ...

OWNED.

a 4 year-old will know from the verse, the comforter is a separate entity altogether and ironically it suits mohammad. he speaks only what he hears which via angel gabriel.

Originally posted by ashna at 12-1-2005 09:14 AM:



OWNED.

a 4 year-old will know from the verse, the comforter is a separate entity altogether and ironically it suits mohammad. he speaks only what he hears which via angel gabriel.

a 4 year old...try it...

fuzzman and you i think dont even understand this...

John 14:26   
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Debmey

fuzzy is in denial.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-12 11:56 AM:
fuzzy is in denial.

THE COMFORTER SHALL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN BUT ONLY OF WHAT HE HEARS.
Yes that's what Jesus said in John 16:13. So I guess you better go make that verse disappear so as to better calm your denial. You know what I mean, just like what they did to the Gospel of Barnabas when Chapter 97 didn't serve their purpose.

Yes friends and foes alike, the MAN himself [Jesus] said it and Debmey says Jesus is a liar! Lordy Lordy what next? Guess it's just time for Debmey and Truth to hang up their preacher man robes real high to dry, cos' the way Fuzzman sees it, they're just up to no good when they can't put up a good rebuttal to what has been said and done with about the Comforter issue. Like Fuzzman says Debmey is at a loss for words.

Looks like Prophet Muhamad sure wears the John 16:13 tag just fine. Now what have you good people got to say about this?

DO YOU KNOW YOUR COMFORTER?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 12-1-2005 at 03:05 PM ]

Debmey

Mo spoke his own nonsence, he did not hear from Jesus one way or another.

The Bible is very clear, the comforter is the Holy spirit, not Mohd.

cheers

Fuzzman

Originally posted by ashna at 2005-1-12 09:14 AM:OWNED. a 4 year-old will know from the verse, the comforter is a separate entity altogether and ironically it suits mohammad. he speaks only what he hears which via angel gabriel.

Good to know that some people can see the logic while others....they only see "dead people."

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

[bOriginally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-12 03:07 PM:
Mo spoke his own nonsence, he did not hear from Jesus one way or another. The Bible is very clear, the comforter is the Holy spirit, not Mohd. cheers

Is John 16:13 part of your Bible or not? Isn't John 16:13 a clear and correct record of what Jesus had said?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Did John 16:13 say that the comforter is mohd did it? Nope. The Bible does say that the comforter is the Holy Spirit though.

What else Fuzzy?

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: Did John 16:13 say that the comforter is mohd did it? Nope. The Bible does say that the comforter is the Holy Spirit though.

And to think that in eras way past I though you had some form of intellectual prowress...was I wrong! You over confessions of being a "spiritual healer", a master of the Bible with every verse either by your fingertips or between your teeth, has succumbed to the oblivion of not understanding the verses in translation. Illiteracy or pure ignorance on your part? Were you lost in translation somewhere along the way?

Of course the Bible DID NOT SAY THAT prophet Muhamad was mentioned in the Bible as the Comforter. How can he be, as he was still in his own right in that period of time, ironically a unsent Holy Spirit. But what the Bible did record Jesus as saying in John 16:13, is that the Comforter that will come will only speak only of what he hears and no more. Now that rhymns with Quranic revelation that narrates of the prophet being "taught by the Angel Jibrail" to speak as required of him.
True in that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying that the Holy Spirit will remain a "spirit" when it is not come. And when that spirit is sent, it is no more a spirit but a human, just like prophet Abraham, Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus.

Finding it hard to accept this truth, then read on and worry no more for the Lord Jesus shall raise you above your doubts. HE only requires you to believe in his WORDS already sent down specially for nerds like you. If you kindly remember the opening verse of John 16:13, you will do justice to repeat the words that speaketh -""Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.."

The Spirit will only remain a spirit as long as he has no human form, meaning of not being brought into this world. Jesus clearly says that when the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you all. Now does that entitle to having that spirit in "your hearts" or of a naturally born human being? Of course  anybody will know that the Comforter is a human being and not your run-of-the-mill hocus-pocus renderation of some sci-fi spiritual abomination to be housed inside your soul?

SO DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR COMFORTER IS, BY BIBLE STANDARDS?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

  But what the Bible did record Jesus as saying in John 16:13, is that the Comforter that will come will only speak only of what he hears and no more.      

Thats right buddy.
Mo spoke lots of words, he spoke words from his own mind, he spoke words that favoured himself, so Mohd could not have been the comforter as described in the Bible.

Now that rhymns with Quranic revelation that narrates of the prophet being "taught by the Angel Jibrail" to speak as required of him.

Wrong again. Jabril is not God.
Besides, Mo did not testified of Jesus, neither did he teach the things that Jesus taught. None of what Jesus taught was recorded in the Quran.

True in that the Bible quotes Jesus as saying that the Holy Spirit will remain a "spirit" when it is not come. And when that spirit is sent, it is no more a spirit but a human, just like prophet Abraham, Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus.

A man is not a spirit. Mo was flesh and blood, he could not have been the Holy Spirit.

Finding it hard to accept this truth, then read on and worry no more for the Lord Jesus shall raise you above your doubts. HE only requires you to believe in his WORDS already sent down specially for nerds like you. If you kindly remember the opening verse of John 16:13, you will do justice to repeat the words that speaketh -""Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.."

The Spirit will guide me in all truth. Mo did not speak the truth, he spoke lies.
If yu read the Quran, yu will realise that it does not make sense when read oin its own. Thats why yu muslims need to interpret and interpret wildly and still be confused cos the content is haphazard and jumbled in the first place.

The Spirit will only remain a spirit as long as he has no human form, meaning of not being brought into this world. Jesus clearly says that when the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you all. Now does that entitle to having that spirit in "your hearts" or of a naturally born human being? Of course  anybody will know that the Comforter is a human being and not your run-of-the-mill hocus-pocus renderation of some sci-fi spiritual abomination to be housed inside your soul?

Yep, the Holy spirit remains spirit, not a man. Mo does not qualify.
Does the Holy Spirit need to be a man to guide us? Nope, we can hear from him. Thats something that is totally missing in islam where the quran and hadith does not teach muslims abt the spirit world and how it operates.

SO DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR COMFORTER IS, BY BIBLE STANDARDS?

Yep, its the Holy Spirit.

it stated clearly here that the holy ghost is the comforter...

John 14:26   
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

but you say the comforter is muhammad through your wild interpretation...

mmm...wonder which one will the 4 year old believe...something that is clearly stated or some wild interpretation by an adult?

[ Last edited by me on 13-1-2005 at 10:33 AM ]

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote:Besides, Mo did not testified of Jesus, neither did he teach the things that Jesus taught. None of what Jesus taught was recorded in the Quran.

Looks like you do not know much about Quran or the Prophet. Any person doing research on the revelations of Allah through Prophet Muhammad will surely attest to the fact that the Ten Commandments are found in Quran. You of course are familiar with the Ten Commandments and would rightly know that what Jesus taught has roots in these Commandments. Therefore if the Ten Commandments could be found in Quran itself, then we can safely deduce that the Prophet and Jesus were bringing forth the message of God from the one and same source. The message given to Prophet Muhammad transcends and superceeds even Jesus. Jesus like Prophet Muhammad are but "spawned pawns" in the scheme of things brought about by Allah aka God aka Yahweh aka ELOHIM aka ELOHA. Prove me wrong if you disagree.

Debmey wrote: Mo spoke lots of words, he spoke words from his own mind, he spoke words that favoured himself, so Mohd could not have been the comforter as described in the Bible.

Can you substantiate your claims with hard proofs? First of all it is you that said Prophet Muhammad cannot be the mentioned Comforter in the Bible. Not me. I merely said that the Comforter is one that speaks of what he hears and no more. Some how through ignorance and probably fear, you made out a storyboard that fits the Comforter criteria to the Prophet while in endgame you try to down that assumption? What is your tagline; may I ask of you?
Prophet Muhammad speaking of himself as in uplifting his image in Quran? Again another urban legend of pure nonsense from you. Just name me where in Quran has the Prophet made self-praise of himself? Don't mix Quran with the Hadiths. The prophet never mentioned himelf at all but gave praise to all the OT prophets including Jesus. Now isn't that what Jesus said the coming Comforter would do?

If Prophet Muhammad had truly created word for word the Quran, then I guess it would not be too difficult for you in overcoming the simplicity of Soora 2:23, would it? So when are you going to carry on unfinished business in that thread of mine?

Debmey wrote: A man is not a spirit. Mo was flesh and blood, he could not have been the Holy Spirit.

A man is a spirit until the day he is born. Anybody knows that. Jesus was flesh and blood and yet he was the presumed "son of Man" and God himself by your count. If that is so how do you explain Jesus with the existence of the Holy Spirit? Can you define the entity of the Holy Spirit?

Debmey wrote:The Spirit will guide me in all truth. Mo did not speak the truth, he spoke lies. If you read the Quran, you will realise that it does not make sense read oin its own. Thats why yu muslims need to interpret and iterpret wildly and still be confused cos the content is haphazard and jumbled in the first place.

What nonsense. Quran on its own is perfect whle what distorts Quranic revelation is the Hadiths or narratives by the close disciples of the Prophet. That is why it is important for all to adhere only to Quran. Don't just see Quran, you should address this same even worser menace in your Bible where the disciples have various accounts on most issues.

Debmey wrote:Yep, its the Holy Spirit.

That's not a convincing answer at all? To make us feel that you are confident of what you know, you have to explain what Jesus meant in John 16:13 when Jesus said that this Comforter, a comfirmed male gender will come after his departure? So where does the Holy Spirit and this male gender fit into the promise of Jesus to the Jews?

lARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 21-1-2005 at 01:59 AM ]

Debmey

  Quote:
Debmey wrote:Besides, Mo did not testified of Jesus, neither did he teach the things that Jesus taught. None of what Jesus taught was recorded in the Quran.

Looks like you do not know much about Quran or the Prophet. Any person doing research on the revelations of Allah through Prophet Muhammad will surely attest to the fact that the Ten Commandments are found in Quran. You of course are familiar with the Ten Commandments and would rightly know that what Jesus taught has roots in these Commandments. Therefore if the Ten Commandments could be found in Quran itself, then we can safely deduce that the Prophet and Jesus were bringing forth the message of God from the one and same source. The message given to Prophet Muhammad transcends and superceeds even Jesus. Jesus like Prophet Muhammad are but "spawned pawns" in the scheme of things brought about by Allah aka God aka Yahweh aka ELOHIM aka ELOHA. Prove me wrong if you disagree.

Nope, the teachings of Jesus wasn't found in the Quran at all. Jesus taught much more than the ten commandments.

Can you substantiate your claims with hard proofs? First of all it is you that said Prophet Muhammad cannot be the mentioned Comforter in the Bible. Not me. I merely said that the Comforter is one that speaks of what he hears and no more. Some how through ignorance and probably fear, you made out a storyboard that fits the Comforter criteria to the Prophet while in endgame you try to down that assumption? What is your tagline; may I ask of you?
Prophet Muhammad speaking of himself as in uplifting his image in Quran? Again another urban legend of pure nonsense from you. Just name me where in Quran has the Prophet made self-praise of himself? Don't mix Quran with the Hadiths. The prophet never mentioned himelf at all but gave praise to all the OT prophets including Jesus. Now isn't that what Jesus said the coming Comforter would do?

Mohamad could not have been the Comforter then since yu can't even stand by it.
Not only did mo praised himself, he accorded priviledges to himself such as taking other people's wives.


cheers