Semua Pasal Dinosaur[merged:sephia_liza, Sephiroth ]

sephia_liza

Ancient Dinosaur Art from Indonesian Islands; Kalimantan, Bali, Sumatra



The enormous number of Indonesia's islands and their location in a tropical, equatorial climate has produced an unrivalled diversity of plant and animal life. With only 1% of the world's land area, Indonesia is home to over 10% of all mammal species, and 17 % of all birds.

Indonesia is over 80% water. For marine creatures it is a vast melting pot, at the influence of both the Pacific and Indian Oceans. The mingling of life from these two great oceans around thousands of islands has created the greatest diversity of marine life on Earth.

Location, Geography and Climate



Indonesia is composed of seventeen thousand islands that stretch over five thousand miles along the equator. The Malay peninsula and Indochina are situated to the north-west, and the continent of Australia lies due south. Northward lie the Philippines and Micronesia.

The world's largest archipelago, Indonesia's constellation of islands straddles the divide between the Asian and Australian continental plates.

Kalimantan



Back on the left (red background)I believe is an obvious wooden sculpture from the same book of a type of hadrosaurs--duck billed, crested dinosaurs-. Specifically, it appears that the men here are riding the back of a Parasaurolophus. One of that type is pictured on the right(black background). Parasaurolophus was about nine meters (28 ft) long and weighed up to four tons.

Back on the left again is another curious item from the same museum and book. Several large animals, which appear to be another type of dinosaur which according to science, these ancient people shouldn't have seen is what appears to be a Corythosaurus. Note the similarities to the Corythosaurus drawings picured to the right of the page opposite.



Back on the left (sepia toned)"Ancient" painting of a type of crested duck-billed dinosaur whose bones have been found in New Mexico (and other places).

Photo from "Clues to the Past", by the Archaeological Society of New Mexico:#16, 1990, edited by Duran and Kirkpatrick. The painting is attributed to the Pueblo 4 culture-AD 1300 to AD 1500.

"The duck-billed dinosaurs Parasaurolophus and Kritosaurus and the horned dinosaur Pentaceratops were the most common dinosaurs living in northwestern New Mexico during the Late Cretaceous."New Mexico State Museum--Dinosaurs of New Mexico. Compare the painting with this drawing of lambeosarus.

sephia_liza

Dinosaur fossils were first discovered in Thailand in 1976, quite by accident when geologists from the Department of Mineral Resources were surveying land for uranium in the Phu Wiang district of Khon Kaen province.

One of the survey team, Khun Sutham Yaemniyom, unearthed a large bone which turned out to be from a Sauropod dinosaur, a long-necked, long-tailed, four-legged species. Later, the Northeastern Geological Survey Team discovered more dinosaur fossils in Chaiyaphum and Udon Thanee provinces.

What exactly are dinosaur fossils? - Fossils are plant and animal remains that have been preserved beneath the surface of the earth. They are most commonly found near rivers, lakes and the coast but may be found in deserts that, millions of years ago may have been a lake or even a coastline!

The name dinosaur was coined by a famous English scholar, Professor Richard Owen, in 1841. He invented the name from the Greek words 'Deinos' meaning terribly frightening, and 'Sauros' meaning a reptile or reptilian.



Phu Wiang Forest was declared the 71st national park in 1991 and covers an area of about 325 square kilometres. It is located approximately 85 kilometres northwest of Khon Kaen city and is a great source of dinosaur fossils, especially in the northwest section of the park....www.wikipedia.com - Thai Travel Site

On the top left is is an ancient Thai object (incense burner or candle holder) of art from the book Arts of Asia. Curiously enough, it looks like a stylized version of a sauropod, a type of dinosaur that was actually found in Thailand. Those are birds perched on the back of the dino.

On the top right is a photo of the statue of a giant sauropod dinosaur in Phu Wiang Park in Thailand --near where the bones of a sauropod were found in 1976.

sephia_liza

This is a Dong Son lamp from Viet Nam dated between the third century to the first century before Christ. Similar to other art pieces from Sumatra, (on previous pages) warriors ride the back of a large animal. Men are pictured riding Sumatran dinosaurs, on this piece from Viet Nam and on the Ica Stones, all in a very similar fashion as shown a number of times in this section.



Maybe by this time I'm seeing dinosaurs behind every tree, but it appears because of the bump on the head that it is a representation of a Brachiosaurus. The piece is a funtioning lamp, so I think that the mouth area may not be as acurate as the head itself. Dinosaur fossils of this type have been found in the area which is near the border of China

The photo is from the book: Art of Vietnam, by Formon. This is piece number 34 in the book.

Dinosaur Petroglyphs at Wypatki National park, Arizona



On the right, one of the curious "dinosaur" petroglyphs near Middle Mesa at the Wypatki National Park, photographed by Chris Maier after a guided two day hike to the site. This particular petroglyph is called "Puff the Magic Dragon", and appears to be a depiction of a fire breathing dinosaur. It is not possible to date petroglyphs because the rocks from which they are made contain no organic materials.

"The ages of the petroglyphs on this panel and the ones we would later see are unknown. They are believed to be at least several hundred years old, but they may be as old as a thousand years or more."

The Aberdeen Beastiary and other Ancient "Science Sources"



PARE, Ambroise. de. Les Oeuvres d'Ambroise Pare' ... Lyon: C. Prost, 1641.

(Photo is from the Aberdeen Beastiary)The existence of dragons is documented in this text by the well known surgeon Ambroise Pare (1510 - 1590). The caption on page forty-eight reads:

"Here are represented two types of dragons that kill elephants. The dragons are quite glorious, because by their finesse and malice they defeat elephants which are the strongest animals on earth . . .

They lay in wait for the elephants, and suddenly attack them, wrapping themselves around the elephants, tying the elephants' legs with their tails so they can not walk.

Then the dragons stuff their heads in the elephants' trunks, impeding their breathing. They bite the skin of the elephants which they find most tender, scratch their eyes and suck their blood, so that the elephants die.

PLINY

Pliny says that there are dragons in Ethiopia that are 10 coudees long [the distance from the elbow to finger tip]. In India some have been found that are 100 coudees long, and some fly so high in the air that they capture flying birds."

An Ancient Description of a Dragon (The Aberdeen Bestiary Project)

The following description of a dragon, was translated by participants in the Aberdeen Bestiary Project. "A Bestiary is a collection of short descriptions about all sorts of animals, real and imaginary, birds and even rocks, accompanied by a moralizing explanation."

The Aberdeen Bestiary appeared in its present form in twelfth century England and is based on "The Physiologus, [which] was written in Greek, probably in Alexandria, in about the fourth century. It consisted of 48 or 49 chapters about beasts, birds and stones used as a vehicle for explaining Christian dogma."

The full-text of this bestiary, with illustrations, original transcription, modern English translation, and commentary is reproduced on the site. Includes a bibliography. From the Aberdeen University Library. ?de

The Aberdeen Bestiary Project Translation of the Latin Description of a Dragon

Of the dragon

The dragon is bigger than all other snakes or all other living things on earth. For this reason, the Greeks call it dracon, from this is derived its Latin name draco.

The dragon, it is said, is often drawn forth from caves into the open air, causing the air to become turbulent.

The dragon has a crest, a small mouth, and narrow blow-holes through which it breathes and puts forth its tongue. Its strength lies not in its teeth but in its tail, and it kills with a blow rather than a bite.

It is free from poison. They say that it does not need poison to kill things, because it kills anything around which it wraps its tail.

From the dragon not even the elephant, with its huge size, is safe. For lurking on paths along which elephants are accustomed to pass, the dragon knots its tail around their legs and kills them by suffocation.

Dragons are born in Ethiopia and India, where it is hot all year round.

Chinese Dragon Fossils



CHINESE archaeologists claim to have found fossils of reptiles which resemble the dragons of Chinese mythology.

Seven hundred fossils of the 'Guizhou dragons' were confiscated from illegal fossil traders last April. The small reptiles had long necks, long curved tails, and five long bones in their feet.



The reptiles were found around Xingyi city in Guizhou province. A researcher of ancient vertebrates from the Chinese Academy of Sciences, Zhao Xijin, said Guizhou was an important base for the 'dragons'.

China's Guangming Daily newspaper said these 'dragons' were not the real ancestors of dragons in Chinese mythology, they simply resembled Chinese dragons.

sephia_liza

Ancient Zoomorphic Vase Depicts Flat Headed Dinosaur?


Photo above: The ancient piece in question. A flat headed dino?

The "flat headed" dinosaurs were very common. They came in large varieties that fall into different groups. The item on the top left is an ancient "zoomorphic" vase thought to be at least 2000 years old of either ancient Roman but more probably Mycenean manufacture. The Mycenean civilization's fall is thought to have taken place between 1300 and 1000 years before Christ.

The item is called zoomorphic because it is recognized that an animal figure is being represented--but which animal is unknown. Often "mythological" animals are identified as zoomorphic.



The main photo is 1998 from the Archaeological Institute of America. Its immediately recognizable as one of a type of the Flat headed dinosaurs which I believe existed at the time the artist made this piece.

It has been our contention that these animals and man co-existed in the past and in the recent past. If these animals and man did co-exist, we should expect to see representations of them in art of the times just as we see with other animals they lived with.

Fossils of flat headed dinosaurs are very common. As the principal function of the object is a vase, it is not an exact representaion, but I believe it shows the same curve of belly and tail as well as the head shape perculiar to this type of dinosaur, with back legs thicker than the front legs.

I've included a selection of hydrosaurs on this page of various types (corresponding to the poll) which to me seem most likely to be what the ancient craftsman intended to represent with this zoomorphic vase.
What do you think?

sephia_liza

Ancient Terra Cotta Depicts Dinosaur?--or "Ritual" Object?



CACHI: At the foot of the 19,000 foot Nevado del Cachi, Cachi is a beautiful little town. Founded in 1694, it is well known for its weaving and crafts. There is an interesting archaeological museum with artifacts from the pre-colonial Calchaqui culture. regarded to be best museum of its kind in Argentina.

So, Mr. Museum Director, what is that animal there? "That is the gato. (cat). And this one here? That is the perro (dog). And sir, what animal is this one? Oh, claro, that is the ritual object."

In this section of the site, we have demonstrated, we think anyway that animals we call dinosaurs existed contemporaneously with some of our ancestors and that like other animals living at the time were captured in the artwork, history and literature of those times.

Perhaps, after all this piece from the Chachi museum really is a ritual object and not an animal alive at that time as some others depicted in the art of the Calchaqui culture ( from 900 BC to 1471 BC )were.

Maybe we here at s8int.com are crying "wolf" too often. However, the museum itself did not consider the sculpture to represent an alpaca or llama and the legs aren't right. They're much sturdier. Also, the figure has the birdlike aspect of some of the crested dinosaurs.



The Antarctosaurus, (fig 2) is one of the 12 dinosaurs
discovered in Argentina according to the DinoDirectory

sephia_liza

Ancient Terra Cotta Depicts Dinosaur?--or "Horned Toad?



If not for the theory of evolution, we would immediately think of dinosaurs when we encountered dragons and other types of "mythical" animals in ancient art. The theory of evolution tells us that man and dinosaurs never interacted, s we look for other explanations for these representations. We're not making the case that many creatures being represented in this ancient art weren't "mythical" or chimeras or merely stylized depictions of known creatures. What we are saying is that this does not account for all of these dinosaur like representations



This first animal that we are focusing on was labeled in the gallery as a horned toad--and perhaps it is. There are many varieties of horned toads, two examples are pictured on the right. It may represent one such creature, but on the other hand, it (the above sculpure) also shares some characteristics with a type of dinosaur, believed to have become extinct millions of years ago; the ankylosaurs. It is unfortunate that the tail of the animal is missing because many of the ankylosaurs had a very distinct type of tail as you will read about below.

The photo above left is of a sculpture from the Jalisco culture; 300 B.C. to 300 A.D. according to historians and archaeologists. The Jalisco culture, named for the modern state, was located in West Mexico along the Pacific coast west of modern-day Mexico City.

Jalisco figures appear to be caricatures of human life rather than the theocratic art of other Mexican cultures, and as such seem much more expressive. However, these figures clearly served a religious purpose, as they were usually placed in tombs logan museum

The Ankylosaurs



How would you recognize an ankylosaur if you saw one? Ankylosaurs were among the most successful dinosaurs; they lived on Earth for over 60 million years. Those found in Alberta were among the largest of the ankylosaur family. These armoured dinosaurs had stocky legs and a short, heavy body.

They ranged in size. Some were the size of large turtles while others were as big as a car.

The armour, studs, spikes and tail clubs that covered their bodies protected them from their enemies.

They were built like tanks, with a wide rear end that held a huge digestive system to help them process the plants that they consumed.

All ankylosaurs were plant-eaters but their weak teeth did not allow them to chew their food. Plants were swallowed whole and digested in their huge stomachs. Their legs were heavily muscled to support their weight. Despite their bulky size, there is some evidence that they could move swiftly for short distances?calgary public library"

Once considered to be the same as Ankylosaurus, Euoplocephalus is probably the best known ankylosaur. It was much smaller than Ankylosaurus, measuring 6 meters (20 feet) long and 2.4 meters (8 feet) wide; it weighed 2,700 kilograms (6,000 pounds).

Bony plates studded with rows of spikes lined its back and a club armed its tail. It was so heavily armoured that even its eyelids had large, curved, bony plates. Its rounded snout had small, weak teeth that ended in a beak. Fossils of Euoplocephalus show that it had a complex nasal cavity that would have given it a keen sense of smell. It walked on four short, stout legs that ended in hoof-like claws.

Euoplocephalus was one of the most common armoured dinosaurs in Canada. Indeed, all of the known specimens come from this province. It was first discovered in 1902 by Lawrence Lambe. All the specimens date back 70 million years or older.

Many fossil remains have been located with their tail clubs attached. The tail club are much more common that the rest of the skeleton.

sephia_liza

Ancient Hammered Copper Ornament Depicts Bat?--or "Baby Pterosaur"?



The image abovet is of an ancient ornament from the Moche culture, ancient Mexico, circa 100 to 300 A.D. The gallery where this was found identifies the object as a bat on a crescent from the north coast of Mexico. The gallery may in fact be correct but we see another, more plausible explantion.

Actually, our theory would be more plausible to all concerned, we believe if it were not for the theory of evolution. As part of that paradigm, dinosaurs and certain of their co-inhabitators were believed to have become extinct millions of years ago.

BATS



"A bat looks somewhat like a mouse. At one time they were called a "flittermouse". This was because they were thought of as a flying mouse. Others thought of the mouse as a bird.
The bat is more closely related to primates. Bats can fly like a bird. But, they do not have feathers, build nests, or lay eggs. Bats are mammals. Their bodies are covered with fur.
They are born live and not hatched from an egg. There are almost 1,000 species of bats. They are different in size, color, body features, habitat and diet. They live in nearly every part of the world.

The most unusual ones live in South and Central America. The most numbers are found in Africa."

Evolutionists on Pterosaurs



"Pterosaurs were an order of flying reptiles that lived during the time of the dinosaurs. The pterosaurs ranged in size from a few inches to over 40 feet. They had hollow bones, were lightly built, and had small bodies.

They had large brains and good eyesight. Some pterosaurs had fur on their bodies, and some (like Pteranodon) had light-weight, bony crests on their heads that may have acted as a rudder when flying, or may have been a sexual characteristic.

Pterosaur wings were covered by a leathery membrane. This thin but tough membrane stretched between its body, the top of its legs and its elongated fourth fingers, forming the structure of the wing. Claws protruded from the other fingers.

WHEN PTEROSAURS LIVED

Pterosaurs lived during the Mesozoic Era, the Age of Reptiles. The primitive types of pterosaurs (rhamphorhynchoids) appeared during the Triassic, and died out at the end of the Jurassic period.

More advanced pterosaurs (pterodactyloids) appeared late in the Jurassic period and died out during the Cretaceous, about 65 million years ago, during the K-T extinction (65 mya)." ...EnchantedLearning.com

sephia_liza

Thai Vase from 1400's Depicts Dinosaur or Seahorse?



Because of the distinctive crests on the tops of their heads, the corythosaurus should be one of the easiest dinosaurs to identify if they were to appear in ancient art. In fact, on several prior pages of this section, the corythosaur was so identified.

The museum that has this item on display identifies it (the animal likeness) as a seahorse. As a matter of fact, it does look more than a little bit like a seahorse. We carefully compared photos os seahorses with drawings and skulls of the corythosauras and finally decided to cast our vote for the dinosaur for the following reasons.

Although the vase also depicts fish, which would be a point for the seahorse explanation, it also depicts leaves, which the corythosauras ate for food. The crest looks exactly like the crest on the head of the dinosaur and seemed to us, less than an exact match for the seahorse.



Finally, it appears to us as though the attitude (upward angle) of the head is unlike that usually displayed by the seahorse. As a matter of fact, we're not even sure that the seahorse could comfortably get his head in that position. One could argue that the scales would have been applicable to either a seahorse or a dinosaur(reptile), so we're not sure that they help in the identification. It's certainly not something we'd stake our professional reputations on, even though we have no such reputations.

We've provided a nice picture of the vase as well as samples of the corythosaurus (top row)and the seahorse so that you can decide the issue for yourself. Of course, if it is the corythosaurus this is an extraordinary find.

An Additional Ancient Chinese Dinosaur Depiction



This is another ancient object with an animal head of unknown representation. Of course, the identification given is that of a mythological animal.
We ask you once again if representations like this long necked animal on the ancient teas server doesn't confirm once and for all that our ancestors lived with an interacted with dinosaurs? Like other animals from the past, it's possible that the dinosaurs of that time weren't as large as they had been in the past--like other animals we've examined beginning at Mega1.html

sephia_liza

These "ancient" (1600's) artists of Cameroun do an outstanding job of creating exact likenesses for pterosauria if they had not in fact ever seen one alive.


Below:From the Book: Art of Africa- Negro Art from Institute of Ethnography, Leneigrad. Olderogge & Eamon 1969

Gallery Listings:

104. Headdress 16 x 65 cm. Restored. From the Mansfield collection, 1904 to 1907. Keaka (Cameroun). 1604-1677. Two large and two small bird抯 heads. Wood, carved with poker work, painted in black, white and reddish brown. Eyes set with glass.



105. Headdress mask in the form of two bird抯 heads. Wood, carved. 24 x 71 cm. From the Mansfield collection, 1904 to 1907. Keaka (Cameroun). 1604-1674. Painted reddish brown and black. Eyes inlaid metal strips, nail pupils.

sephia_liza

An Ancient Stegosaur Depiction At Angkor Wat



The main entrance to the temple proper, seen from the eastern end of the Naga causewayAngkor Wat (or Angkor Vat) is a temple at Angkor, Cambodia, built for king Suryavarman II in the early 12th century as his state temple and capital city.

The largest and best-preserved temple at the site, it is the only one to have remained a significant religious centre first Hindu, then Buddhist since its foundation.

The temple is the epitome of the high classical style of Khmer architecture. It has become a symbol of Cambodia, appearing on its national flag, and it is the country's prime attraction for visitors.

Angkor Wat combines two basic plans of Khmer temple architecture: the temple mountain and the later galleried temples. It is designed to represent Mount Meru, home of the "gods" in Hindu mythology: within a moat and an outer wall 3.6 km (2.2 miles) long are three rectangular galleries, each raised above the next.

At the centre of the temple stands a quincunx of towers. Unusually, Angkor Wat is orientated towards the west; scholars are divided as to the significance of this.

As well as for the grandeur and harmony of the architecture, the temple is admired for its extensive bas-reliefs and for the numerous devatas adorning its walls.

History



Angkor wat is in northwest Cambodia.The initial design and construction of the temple took place in the first half of the 12th century, during the reign of Suryavarman II (ruled 1113朿. 1150). Dedicated to Vishnu, it was built as the king's state temple and capital city.

As neither the foundation stela nor any contemporary inscriptions referring to the temple have been found, its original name is unknown.

It is located 5.5 km north of the modern town of Siem Reap, and a short distance south and slightly east of the previous capital, which was centred on the Baphuon. Work seems to have come to an end on the king's death, with some of the bas-reliefs unfinished.

In 1177 Angkor was sacked by the Chams, the traditional enemies of the Khmer. Thereafter the empire was restored by a new king, Jayavarman VII, who established a new capital and state temple (Angkor Thom and the Bayon respectively) which lie a few kilometres to the north.

STEGOSAURUS DEPICTED IN STONE: DID MAN AND DINOSAUR "CO-EXIST"?


"After wandering through the temple and marveling at the twisting fig trees for over an hour, I finally located the glyph I was searching for near the exit to the complex.

Before me, enclosed in a round circle, was a clear depiction of what could only be a stegosaurus.

The creature had a small neck and four short legs with a long tail. Along its humped back, a series of plates were clearly carved.

As I stared in a wonder, a guide leading two American tourists approached the spot and casually asked them if they believed dinosaurs lived 800 years ago? He then proudly showed them the stegosaurus carving to their utter amazement.

Stylistically similar circular carvings can be found all over Ta Prohm, but none of them show this same creature. While to my knowledge reputed sightings of a living stegosaurus have not been made, other saurians have been glimpsed.

In 1999, Papua New Guinea抯 The Independent newspaper reported that a 揹inosaur-like reptile?was witnessed near Lake Murray."

About the Stegosaurus; Extinct for 140 Million Years?



"Stegosaurus means "roofed reptile." Its "roof" is made up of the large plates along the ridge of the animal's back.

What were they for? Originally, paleontologists speculated that the plates represented a type of armor, used for protection.

But the surfaces of the plates are crisscrossed with grooves for blood vessels, indicating that they were covered with skin when the animal was alive.

This led later paleontologists to speculate that the plates were used for controlling body temperature -- like solar collectors or heat radiators. While that is an interesting hypothesis, it cannot be tested scientifically, since all stegosaurs are extinct. This is one of the many cases in which scientists do not have conclusive answers Extinct dinosaurs present us with many such mysteries.



Stegosaurus offers more mysteries, such as how it could function with its tiny brain. The image of dinosaurs as massive beasts with walnut-sized brains is not true of many dinosaurs, but it is true of Stegosaurus.

It has even been suggested that Stegosaurus had a second brain to control its hindquarters, since the one in its head seems to be too small to manage the entire beast. But it was, and it did. Stegosaurus had only one, small brain.

Still another mystery involves Stegosaurus's front legs. As a baby fossil, the front legs are straight up and down. As an adult fossil, however, they are splayed out to the side. Which is correct? We're not sure, since they seem to fit both ways.

Only Stegosaurus, silent and still for 140 million years, contains the answers to these and the many other questions that surround it".....American Museum of Natural History

sephia_liza

From the placard describing this object: This object is a Mayan incised lidded bowl, Early "Classic Period", with ring foot, cylindrical sides, surmounted on the top by a conical-shaped lid with "avial" head as handle.

The "bird" has a wide notched beak, ridged eyes and crest, domed sides incised with outspread wings. The entire object isin black with traces of red pigment.

Earthenware (Blackware), traces of red pigment Classic period, AD 250-450

The object is Mayan and is from the country of Guatemala.

Source: The Gardiner Museum



The photo on the above is from Nature.com and is of a baby pterosaur found recently in China. There were hundreds of different types of Pterosaurs, but compare this piece from approximately 1700 to 1800 years ago with the actual egg found last year. Did man and pterosaur co-exist?

sephia_liza

Dinosaurs in Literature, Art & History--Rock Art of Texas Indians: Thunderbird?


Meyers Springs. Rock Art of the Texas Indians.

Above top is a reproduction of Texas cave art dated at as much as 8 thousand years ago. The large bird depicted in this piece has been described as a "turkey".



That's probably correct, but given the relative size of the bird (and our pencahnt for speculation) it reminded us of a photo of a "thunderbird" that had been shot and photographed on a (Texas?) ranch in the 1950's. Above, cclick and drag to enlarge.Specifically, a smallish Rhamphorhynchoidea [long-tailed] pterosaur.

True enough, its starting to look turkeyish too us a bit more now, but we can't discount the fact that it is near lunchtime.

sephia_liza

We Show Paleontologists What Ceratopsians Really Looked Like



Just as anthropologists have shaped our view of "ancient man" by drawing him as a primitive from just a few bones (in other words, they used pure imagination) paleontologists and artists working with them have used virually their imaginations alone to describe what dinosaurs looked like. We assert that they may have been way off when it comes to ceratopsians. We think all those images of the ceratopsians are probably wrong in a vey important detail. The proboscis. Far fetched? Of course it is, particularly if you're convinced dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.



This piece was described as a Mythological Aquatic Creature" by staff of the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. The piece is made of metal and is from Nepal, Himalayas, 10th century, i.e. approximately 16oo years ago. Clearly though, this is not a mythological creature. We recognized almost immediately the similarity it bore to the skulls of the ceratopsian dinosaurs, particularly Styracosaurus--except for the trunk of course.

Could paleontologists have gotten it wrong? Why not? They got evolution wrong, many of them. And they got the extinction of dino's 65 million years ago wrong. Also, remember that there is nothing about an elephant's skull to indicate it has a long trunk. Maybe, this dino is actually a mammal (another paleontogological mistake)....maybe related to the elephant...

Below, right, we; introduce the correct likeness Styracosaurus Camille,as we've named it, prove to those who can accept it(it's hard to build a case for this from one piece of art--but science often builds its dinos from less than that) --that the artist must have seen this dinosaur, and solve a Mystery.

sephia_liza

Pre-Columbian Dinosaur?



Fragment. Late Intermediate Period. A.D. 1000?476 Pre-Columbian Cotton and wool slit tapestry Height and Width: 7 1/16 x 7 11/16 in. (18 x 19.5 cm) MFA, Boston.



We can't say for certain that this stylized animal represents the dinosaur type shown. It seems clear to us that it is intended to represent a type of dinosaur. What do you think?

Egyptian Dinosaur-like Creature



Tapestry. Egyptian (Coptic) 8th century Linen Height and Width: 6 11/16 x 8 1/16 in. (17 x 20.5 cm) MFA, Boston. Denman Waldo Ross Collection

Ground: cream linen cloth; plain selvedge at right. Stained; small holes. Design: tapestry band in pale-yellow, red, blue, green, and brown silk and cream linen. Red band with pair of grotesque affronted elephants (one blue and one yellow); seperated by yellow triangular shaft. At right is fantastic green animal. Band is edged at top and bottom with narrow cream and red stripes. (The photo is black and white. Color added to match description.) A snake head is created in part by the trunks of each pair of animals in the piece.

Speculation: "PROBOSCIDEA (animals with a proboscis ), the scientific name of the group of mammals represented at the present day only by the two species of elephant.

Although here regarded as a sub-order of UNGULATA (q.v.), the group is sometimes accorded the rank of an order by itself.1 .... Discoveries made during the first few years of the 20th century in the Lower Tertiary deposits of the Fayum district of Egypt have, however, brought to light the existence of several kinds of primitive proboscideans which serve to link the group with other ungulates, and likewise apparently indicate affinity with the Sirenia."..LovetoKnow Encyclopedia

Early Recognition of Bi-pedalism in Dinosaurs?



White cotton Mexican Cotton and brocade Overall: 21 x 42 cm (8 1/4 x 16 9/16 in.) MFA, Boston Denman Waldo Ross Collection

The design, which consists of double headed eagles and rampant animals, is of red, deep violet and yellow wool. Much worn.

"It is generally accepted that the first discovery of dinosaur remains in North America was made in 1854 by Ferdinand Vandiveer Hayden during his exploration of the upper Missouri River.

Near the confluence of the Judith and Missouri Rivers (shown above) Hayden's party recovered a small collection of isolated teeth which were later described by the Philadelphia paleontologist Joseph Leidy in 1856, in the Proceedings of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia.

A short two years later, Leidy had the honor of describing the first reasonably complete dinosaur skeleton the world would know, Hadrosaurus foulkii. Named after its discoverer William Parker Foulke, this specimen was recovered during quarrying of a sand pit in Haddonfield, New Jersey.

The real significance of this specimen was in its limb proportions. For the first time scientists studying these animals could see that some dinosaurs were bipedal, walking on two legs instead of on all fours. Bipedalism was a revolutionary thought for a reptilian posture."

?.University of California Museum of Paleontology

Museum Photos on This Page, Copyright: MFA, Boston.

sephia_liza

Dinosaurs in Literature, Art & History--Chinese Hadrosaur...



The piece on the left is from China around 1400. It's currently in the Genesis Park Collection.

"It displays numerous characteristics of the beaked dinosaurs; tridactyl feet configuration, metatarsal stance, scale-like representation all over the body (except for the horn which has a striated pattern), long (albeit slender) tail, elaborate head crest and a long neck? Genesis Park

To the right is what looks to us like a characterization of a very similar animal. This piece is an antique, also from China. The gallery identifies the piece as a "bird" (the rare 4 legged type) no doubt because of the "duck bill". This piece seems to represent a similar animal as the first piece above did. It appears to us that the artist had some familarity with duck billed dinosaurs.

The brachylophosaurus was a type of duck billed dinosaur whose fossils have been found in China. The photos below portray this animal as deduced from its skull, one of which is pictured below, right.

sephia_liza

A Ceratopsian Depiction at an early 1800's Hindu Temple?......



"The famous temple of Muktinath lies in the district of Mustang and is situated 48 km north east of Jomsom at an altitude of about 3749 meters (12,300 feet) above sea level. The temple is situated on a high mountain range and is visited during fair weather.

During the festival of Janai Purnima, Hindu devotees gather here to pay homage to lord Muktinath. The visitors get lodging facilities at Dharmasala and Maharani Pouwa. Another famous temple of Jwaladevi, the goddess of flame, is situated about hundred meters south of Muktinath.


The Muktinath Temple was consecrated in 1815 A.D by Queen Subarna Prabha, the wife of Rana Bahadur Shah. This temple is built in a Tibetan pagoda style and contains huge brass idols of Lord Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma and Kali. The local name for Muktinath is Chumig Gyatsa.

Both Hindus and Buddhists have visited Muktinath ?Chumig Gyatsa for hundreds of years and this place reflects a unique blend of Hinduism and Buddhism. Muktinath geographically speaking is a high valley located on the Mustang Bhote region."

....Source: Pilgrimage Tours


On a wall of the temple are 108 "dragon headed" fountains which pilgrims seek out to "cleanse" themselves. Actually, the heads are variously described as; dragons or bulls.

At least one of the heads, as seen here on the left in this photo, is not a dragon or a bull, but instead is an excellent likeness of a ceratopsian dinosaur.



Ceratopsian Headed Fountain. One in partial black and white for contrast. Source: WIRED2THEWORLD.COM. The Jomsom Trek.

The Ceratopsians



The ceratopsians first appeared in Early Cretaceous Asia and soon branched into two successful Laurasian families. The predominantly Asian Protoceratopsidae were comparatively primitive forms that were usually hornless or, at most, in possession of a small nasal horn. While staying small, they became exceedingly abundant in places like the arid plains of Mongolia..... FURCICERATOPSIDAE

The furciceratopsids form the largest family of Asian ceratopsians, with over a dozen species, ranging from small forest dwellers to the giant megahorns. They have generalised dentition, a large narrow nasal horn or series of hornlets and prominent jugal spikes. Most have spiny or stud-like osteoderms set in their scaly hide. They tend to be unfussy feeders, eating any greenery they can easily get to.

...Indian megahorns, the largest living furciceratopsids, range from eastern India to the shores of the South China Sea. Females and young live in small herds whilst adult males are usually solitary. Their preferred habitat is grassland and open areas in forests, usually close to a watercourse where they wallow and bathe. Its powerful beak can demolish even the toughest of plants...

sephia_liza

Ica Stone Etching from: Le Pietre di Ica, by Cornelia Petratu & Bernard Roidinger.


In the whole -did dinosaurs co-exist with man- controversy? the Ica Stones are the smoking gun. More than that really--they're a mushroom cloud over the notion that dinosaurs died out millions of years before man even ivolved?

In this section of the website; Dinosaurs in Literature, Art and History, I believe were already proven to the open minded that dinosaurs did in fact live with and interact?with man. If you're a Christian, we shouldn't have had to convince you of that. The Ica stones are an archaeological treasure trove. They are in general beautiful works of art with themes seen in some of the other ancient Peruvian art were examined on these pages.

Dr. Jose Cabrera, whose Father began collecting the stones in the 1930 an  now has over 11,000 of these ancient artifacts in his museum, which are engraved stones of varying sizes, which depict: advanced astronomical scenes, advanced medical knowledge,- including heart transplants and brain surgery and many scenes showing dinosaur and man interacting.

Fully one third of the stones portray known dinosaur types; some displaying characteristics in the 1960an (when the existence of the stones became generally known?, which predated our current understanding of how these animals looked.

These stones show scenes of man controlling, killing or being killed by dinosaurs (a term first used in the mid-1800 cc). As seen below, some of the scenes depicted appear to be of mechanical contrivances that remind us of Pascal  tomb lid.

These stones show signs of being of great age, such as oxidation. Rocks cannot be carbon dated but as we relate below a number of experts have given their opinion as to the age of these stones as being between 1,500 and 12,000 years old. Conventional science and archaeologists have either ignored these enigmatic stones or condemned them as fakes. They have refused to cooperate with any scientific analyses of the stones and in general act as if they wish they  go away.

No doubt some stones have been forged in recent years for profit, but everything -to super bowl tickets to Greek and Roman antiquities have been counterfeited and yet we all tend to still believe that most of the items are real.

When it comes to ancient Greek and Roman antiquities science is willing to analyze them to determine their age and their provenance because they do not threaten the paradigm like these artifacts do.


The Indian chronicler, Juan de Santa Cruz Pachachuti Llamgui wrote that at the time of the Peru-tomb Pachachuti many carved stones were found in the Kingdom of Chperu-tomb, in Chinchayunga, which were called "Manco." (Juan de Santa Cruz Pachacuti Llamqui: "Relacion de antique dades d'este reyno del Peru.")

The reference to "Chinchayunga" was the low country of the central coast of Peru, where Ica is located today. "Manco" is believed to be a corruption of the Aymara word "malku" which means "Chieftain" or "Lord of vassals." It is noted that some of these stones were taken back to Spain. The chronicler of the Peru-tombs wrote in about 1570.? Don Patton

Dr. Cabrera, who ran a museum showcasing the artifacts before his death, was a professor of medicine and the head of his department at the University of Lima, estimates that considering his own collection, other collections with which he was aware, that as many as 50,000 of these artifacts have been found.

Dr. Cabrera accepted the theory of evolution, but believed that the stones belonged to a race of advanced man who lived millions of years ago. Christians would disagree with his theories about the artifacts, but at least the stones dont  make us run and hide like they do materialist science.

Mainstream scientists have only to hear that they depict man interacting with known types of dinosaurs to conclude with eyes closed and ears plugged that they are fakes. To be fair, Christians shouldn't accept them as genuine simply because they reinforce what we believe but all should welcome an honest, scientific analysis of the artifacts. They are what they are, enigmatic, mysterious, beautiful and ubiquitous -?and very possibly ancient

Ica Stone Etching from: Le Pietre di Ica, by Cornelia Petratu & Bernard Roidinger


360 kilometers south of Lima - capital of Peru - in the coastal province of Ica, there were discovered in 1961 some strange and mysterious stones shaped somewhat like river rocks. The strangeness, the mystery of the stones was that they pictured animals, men and ways of life very different from those previously discovered by students of the classical cultures of Peru.

The stones came from Ocucaje, an agreeable little town located 40 kilometers south of Ica. In this region, underground, are to he found innumerable graves of men who lived in the times of the Inca and before; lying on the surface of the earth are petrified remains of both tiny and huge prehistoric animals.

Ocucaje lies in an immense desert criss-crossed by mounds of ancient rocks, perhaps the oldest on the planet. There, in the solitude of the desert landscape, testimonials to the recent past and the ancient past lie side by side.

And if it were not for the small fields that arise on either side of the river - dry most of the year - that crosses the desert, it might be said that this part of the world had died, that time stopped here.


The strange stones were found by the peasants of Ocucaje. Ocucaje lies in the zone where since the beginning of the century the finest ancient textiles and ceramics have been unearthed, and the peasants have dedicated themselves, generation after generation, to the clandestine practice of searching for artifacts.

On a clear night, armies of men armed with picks, their faces covered so as not to breath the stench of the graves, protected by amulets to defend them against evil spirits, with the silence as their only witness, perform the enigmatic task of literally uncovering the past.

For long hours these moving shadows people the desert; if someone unaware of what they were doing should happen to surprise them at their work, he would think that the dead had abandoned their endless sleep to arise from the grave and take up their lives where death had interrupted them in some unknown moment so long ago.

sephia_liza

The unusual figures engraved on the stones amazed the archeologists who saw them: they could not he reconciled with what was known of the men who had lived in ancient Peru, and they toppled all knowledge that had been pieced together regarding that era.

Doubt about the authenticity of the stones was their first response. Loyal to the notion that the oldest human beings in Peru dated from no more than 20,000 years ago and that only 3,000 years ago was there an advanced civilization to he found in the region, they could not admit the hypothesis that the stones might be evidence of a civilization much older than the classical cultures of Peru, that is to say, older than the Incas or the Pre-Incas.

The incredulity of the archeologists was communicated to the cultural authorities of the country. The engraved stones of Ica, which kept appearing and finding their way into private collections, were passed over by the archeologists and other specialists.

Carlos and Pablo Soldi, who had collected the first stones that appeared in Ocucaje repeatedly requested that their specimens be studied, but the experts decided to ignore their persistent petitions.

In 1966, an architect named Santiago Agurto Calvo carried out excavations in the graves of Ocucaje to try to determine if the engraved stones, of which he had a substantial collection acquired years before, came from them.

Santiago Agurto Calvo was able to find some specimens which led him to believe that the stones had been carved by pre-Incaic man. It was the first time that the exact provenance of some specimens was known.



........At this point in my investigations I must confess I was surprising myself at every turn. The engraved stones of Ica were revolutionizing paleontology and radically changing the date of the appearance of culture and intelligent men on earth.

One question remained: Was it possible that the engraved stones of Ica were somehow being manufactured by modern man? I remembered the assertion made by the Director of the Museo Regional of Ica that the peasants of Ocucaje were making them. The assertion strained credulity, since these are simple people who totally lack the specialized understanding of science that can be seen in the stones.

Possibly the stones were not manufactured by peasants but by one or two men who did possess such understanding and who had the stones carved with the intention of selling them.

Despite the fact that I knew from Herman Buse抯 account that these stones had been sold since 1961 for very little, amounts that would not even come close to compensating the enormous trouble they cost, I decided that I must have laboratory confirmation of the age of the stones.

THE LABORATORY CONFIRMS THE STONES' ANTIQUITY



It was in the month of May, l967, and one day I selected from my collection 33 stones, among them a few that showed the reproductive cycle of long-extinct animals, which I knew would be controversial if their authenticity could not be established.

I went to my friend Luis Hochshild, a learned mining engineer and Vice-President of the Mauricio Hochshild Mining Co., based in Lima. I asked if his laboratories could perform an analysis that would determine the nature of the stone and the antiquity of the engravings.


At the beginning of June I received a report from the laboratory, in a document signed by the geologist Eric Wolf which stated:

This is unquestionably natural stone shaped by fluvial transport (river rock). Petrologically I would classify them as andesites. Andesites are rocks whose components have been subjected mechanically to great pressure which causes chemical changes to take place. In this case the effects of intense sericitation (transformation of feldspar into sericite) are obvious.

This process has increased the compactness and specific weight, also creating the smooth surface that ancient artists preferred for carving.

I will try to confirm this preliminary opinion by means of a more detailed test in the laboratories of the Engineering School and of the University of Bonn, West Germany. The stones are covered with a fine patina of natural oxidation which also covers the engravings by which their age should be able to be deduced.

I have not been able to find any notable or irregular wear on the edges of the incisions which leads me to suspect that these incisions or etchings were executed not long before being deposited in the graves or other places where they were discovered.

sephia_liza

This analysis revealed three important facts: a) The engraved stones have a higher specific gravity than common river rocks found in riverbeds and beaches, which I had guessed as soon as I first held one in my hand;

b) The engravings are old, to judge by the coating of natural oxidation that covers the incisions as well as the stones themselves; and

c) The stones were engraved not long before being deposited in the spots where they were found, to judge by the absence of wear on the edges of the incisions, which means that the stones were not engraved for utilitarian or even artistic purposes, but rather to be deposited in a safe place - for some unknown reason.

One year before, Santiago Agurto Calvo had published the results of a petrological analysis of the engraved stones in his collection. These results were part of the newspaper article mentioned earlier, in which he discussed the discovery of engraved stones in the Ocucaje zone.

Specifically, the article dealt with some specimens that he had purchased in 1962 from huaqueros which, according to him, contained "unidentifiable things, insects, fish, birds, cats, fabulous creatures and human beings, sometimes apart and other times shown together in elaborate and fantastic compositions".

He had entrusted the analysis to the mining Faculty of the Universidad Nacional de Ingeneira and it had been performed by two engineers, Fernando de las Casas and Cesar Sotillo.

Since the analysis I had commissioned promised that the preliminary study would be followed up by a closer examination in the laboratories of the Universidad Nacional de Ingeneira de Peru and the University of Bonn, I decided to compare the analysis of my stones with that of the stones of Agurto. The analysis of Agurto's stones read:

All the stones are highly carbonized andesites, despite their coloration and texture, which suggest a different nature.

The stones come from lava flows dating from the Mesozoic era, characteristic of the zone where they were found. The surface has weathered, and feldspar has been turned into clay, weakening the surface and forming a kind of shell around the interior of the stones.

This shell measures an average of grade 3 on the Mohs scale (which measures the comparative capacity of a substance to scratch another or be scratched by another) and up to 4 1/2 in the part not so affected by weathering.

The stones can be worked with any hard material such as bone, shell, obsidian, etc., and naturally, by any prehispanic metal implement.



The checkered history of the Acambaro collection is not unlike the history of the Engraved Stones of Ica, the gliptoliths(Cabreras name for the stones). Skepticism among archeologists regarding the authenticity of the Acambaro pieces lasted twenty years, and the same skepticism has animated Peruvian archeologists where the gliptoliths are concerned.

The difference between the Acambaro and Ica case is that in the latter case the doubt has not yet been dispelled.

Since 1961 when, according to the Peruvian scholar Herman Buse, the engraved stones first appeared in Ocucaje, constant efforts have been made, in vain, to enlist the help of Peruvian archeologists in verifying the authenticity of the stones.

First to try were the Soldi brothers, who put together the first collection of stones bought from the huaqueros of Ocucaje. Even though the Soldis mistakenly thought the stones were made by the Incas, this does not diminish the persistence with which they requested official tests to prove what they were already sure of: that the stones were not of recent manufacture.

Herman Buse reports in his 1965 book that one of the brothers ?Pablo - said that the existence of a thick layer of saltpeter covering the specimens could not be explained except by the passage of considerable time, and he added that the huaqueros who had found the stones were willing to take archeologists to the places were they had been discovered, to show them that this was not a hoax.

Buse says that the other brother ?Carlos - could not believe that anyone would have gone to the trouble to manufacture the stones only to sell them at the ridiculously low prices which the Soldis had paid. But when Peruvians archeologists heard of the Soldi collection, they immediately assumed a posture of incredulity, and they would not accompany the huaqueros to the excavations.

Several years later, in 1966, Santiago Agurto Calvo felt the need to verify the authenticity of the stones that kept appearing in Ica, and he began to carry out excavations, first on his own and later in the company of the archeologist Alejandro Pezzia Assereto, director of the Museo Regional of Ica. Agurto Calvo had a collection of several hundred stones which he had put to test in the laboratories of the Faculty of Mining at the Universidad Nacional de Ingenieria.

As we saw in Chapter One, these tests revealed that the stones came from lava layers dating from the Mesozoic era (frau 230 to 63 ruillion years ago), and one feature was the relative softness of the stones surface. Based on this characteristic, Agurto Calvo speculated that the stones may have come from the time of the Incas or Pre-Incas, since the tools used by these cultures would have been capable of executing the engravings on this type of stone.

The excavations he made in Pre-Incas graves finally bore fruit: he found two samples, similar to those that made up his collection. This convinced him that there was no doubt as to the authenticity of the stones, and he declared them to be ancient, by virtue of having found specimens next to known remains and ceramics belonging to Pre-Inca man.


The newspaper article in which Agurto Calvo reported his labors and his discovery concluded with these words: "To the fundamental question - are they false, or are they real-? which it has been my fortune to be able to answer, other questions flow which are equally provocative but even more difficult to answer.

I am certain that the scholars and archeologists of the nation will give them prompt attention which will satisfy our curiosity and enrich the history and culture of Peru"

Two years later, in 1968, the archeologist Pezzia Assereto, who had accompanied Agurto Calvo, published a book on the archeology of the province of Ica, in which he makes note of the discovery: "Agurto was able after several attempts to find an engraved stone inside a tomb in the sector of Toma Luz of the Hacienda Callango del Valle in Ica on 20 August 1966...

After informing the Museo Regional of Ica of such an important find, Agurto and I made another excavation on 11 September of the same year, in the hill called Uhle of the sector of La Banda in the Hacienda Ocucaje, and we found for the first time an engraved stone inside a tomb of the Paracas culture, a thing I was not expecting, but which proved, by association, the authenticity of these artifacts".

Sephiroth

Source : http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20 ... aurhistoryrewritten

[Qoute]
So just how do all these carnivores match up?


Tyrannosaurus rex
Length: 40-50 feet
Weight: 6 tons
Fear factor: teeth up to 13 inches long
Lived: 65 million years ago Where: North America


Giganotosaurus
Length: 47 feet
Weight: 8 tons
Fear factor: 8-inch-long serrated teeth
Lived: 95 million years ago
Where: Argentina


Spinosaurus
Length: 55 feet
Weight: 8 tons
Fear factor: long, crocodile-like jaws
Lived: 100 million years ago Where: Argentina, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria scale)


For the ultimate in dinosaur length though, a vegetarian diet prevailed. Herbivorous sauropods dwarfed carnivorous theropod dinosaurs, and most scientists think Argentinasaurus was the longest of all dinosaurs.


Argentinasaurus
Length: 120 feet
Weight: 100 tons
Fear factor: get out of my way
Lived: 65 million years ago
Where: South America
[/Qoute]

Aduhai ... Sebiji macam Raksasa dlm Ultraman.