The evil that had blinded Muslims

Bateesta · Post time 8-2-2007 10:17 PM

U r what u 1 2 believe , nobody can change that. U can try it but it wont change , simple as that

Look at prophet muhammad , oldo he have good attitude and never lie , see in his history , how many convert 2 islam at his time in mecca , god also said in quran that HE CAN MAKE ALL HUMANS UNITE IN ONE RELIGION AND ONE BELIEF BUT HE WONT..coz life generated by hatred , suspicious , abused , war and etc that bad , it is what it is

rurouni_khairul · Post time 9-2-2007 05:07 PM

Barney50, Can I blame Christian for the existence of KKK or IRA? Or maybe I should blame Shinto for the hijack of underground railroad by the Aum Shiro Kyo? The answer is no because can I blame the religion for what its followers did? It's unfair for me to put the blame on the religion itself whereas the followers, who is a normal human being with human emotions acting terribly in the name of God.

How about the Khawarij? Have you ever studied them? Do you know that they are the one who terrorized in the name of god and Islam. For them all humans who are not part of them (even the muslims like Sunni and Shiites) are non-believers and it is compulsory for them to kill these people. They are the one who twist the words in the Quran to fullfil their hunger and thirst for blood. They even conspired to kill Ali k.w. and Muawiyah r.a., the prophet's (PBUH) companion.

As you can see, words can be twisted to fullfil the means of certain groups or sects. I believe that you are matured enough to realized that. I hope that someday you will see that we are not as savage or barbaric as you think. I pray for your understanding towards us my friend.

barney50 · Post time 9-2-2007 09:41 PM

rurouni_khairul,

I respect your straight forwardness. But the point is Islam is masala now. Non mUlism would not now the difference between the Khawarijs and Sunnis or the Wahabbis and than you have the Sufis who have a different concept of Islam. Because as I said earlier when it comes to condemning Islreal or America there is one voice and that is the nations of Islam. But when it comes to difference of their belief then only we see the argument between these groups. PAS as I see are foolowers of the Wahabbis while UMNO are Sunnis.

Even the Regent of Perak has commented about the old thinking of Muslims. He said Muslims should ask questions and not just accept everyhthing that is being told to do. He is a regent and soon would sit on the throne as Sultan after his father. As a ruler of a state and guardian of the religion he knows what is happening to Musims all over the world and certain incidents in our onw country.

Shaytaan (the devil) is also known as "ash-Shaykh an-Najdi", a title given to him by Rasulullah (Allah's peace and blessings upon him). Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab is also deemed with the EXACT SAME title, "ash-Shaykh an-Najdi," by the Ahl as-Sunnah 'Ummah. Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhab was raised in the wastelands of Najd in central Arabia, and had very little access to mainstream Muslim scholarship. His Islamic "knowledge", as well as "aqeeda," was derived from the Mu'tazila and Khawarij sect, while he claimed to be a Hanbali in Fiqh, but his thinking, ideology, and belief was such that only he alone was Muslim, and everyone else was a mushrik (polytheist). In his writings, he specifically titled ALL of the Ahlus-Sunnah as being polytheists (mushrik). Under this guise, he said (and all Wahhabi's/Najdi's/Salafi's still BELIEVE) that the killing of the Ahlus-Sunnah was permissible.

The Wahhabis entered Mecca in Muharram 1218 A.H. (1803) and disseminated their beliefs. They announced that they would kill those who would visit graves or go to Medina to entreat in front of Rasulullah's shrine. Fourteen days later, they assaulted upon Jidda to capture Sharif Ghalib Effendi, who straightforwardly attacked the Wahhabite bandits from the Jidda fortress and killed most of them. The remainder fled to Mecca. Upon the Meccans begging, they appointed Sharif Ghalib Effendi's brother Sharif 'Abd al-Muin Effendi as the amir of Mecca and went back to Dar'iyya. Sharif 'Abd al-Muin Effendi accepted being the amir in order to protect the Meccans from being tortured by the Wahhabis.

From the above detail of the Wahhabi sect I think there are Wahhabis in Malaysia too. I remember in those days in my home town there was a grave called keramat tok Bidan. In a certain month of the year Muslims would gather at this place and offer glutinous yellow rice and spend the day with their families. It would be a large gathering and they would all look merry. This spot was so famous even non Muslism would participate in the gathering. Normally those who have taken a vow that if their illness is would offer glutinous rice. But suddenly in the 80's an order came from the religious deprtment saying that Muslims should not congregate at this place and is against the theaching of Islam. They took possesion of this place and destroyed the grave which had been there for almost 150 years.

What can the Muslims in the are do when the religious authorities decided to control their life by telling them what they can and cannot do as to their relgious belief. From then on Muslims in my home town became strangers to non Muslims, their life style and attitude changed and they drifted apart from non Muslims. Can you understand what it means? During May 13 "69 all other major towns had incidents but not one incident in my home town and that's because Malays, Chinese and Indias wer so united without any ill feelings. But after the 70's there was wind of change. Can you tell me what was the reason? It was the religion that caused the division. The as Muslims the Malays were thought to think differently and this was not thought in schools in the beginning but in Mosques and Suraus. These were the platform the the Malays were thought to change their coat as Muslims. The powers that initiatedthis change thought the non Muslism were stupid and are not aware of their activities. We knew and it was obvious but we cannot interfere nor had we the power to voice out.

This all began when Tun Abdul Razak became the 2dn PM of Malaysia after TAR. Now to the Muslims Islam became their life and I can say no more. But funny thing is when coming to borrow money they can remember the Indian or Chinese friends but when the issue of religion is raised their same Indian or Chinese friends are their enemies. You make the conclusion my friend.

eastrun · Post time 11-2-2007 10:46 AM

Barney

When I first read the thread that you have posted, i laughed. I keep thinking, do you really understand with what you have posted?. Obviously you are not

Firstly; the verse that you have quoted below:

1. They ask you (O Muhammad ) about the spoils of war. Say: "The spoils are for All鈎 and the Messenger." So fear All鈎 and adjust all matters of difference among you, and obey All鈎 and His Messenger (Muhammad ), if you are believers.
(Surah Al-Anfaal verse 1)

My explanation:

When Allah said that the Spoils of War is for Him and His Messenger, it doesn't mean that He needed the Spoils of war, but He tried to tell you that He is right with tyhe spoils because the Spoils were His. And, He has right to disperse the Spoil to whoever he wish. And Allah never said that the Spoils of War is Haram to be taken, then, why should you blow the trumpet bout this issue?.Well...At least the spoils can be used to sedekah to the people in need.

Secondly,

12. (Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."

13. This is because they defied and disobeyed All鈎 and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys All鈎 and His Messenger, then verily, All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

14. This is the torment, so taste it, and surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.

My explanation:

It think this is the 10th time I explained to you. But you keep ignoring. That's ok...the answer is in the Surah itself. See below:

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards
peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)"
(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:61)

The Muslims act fierce when the enemies attack the religion. I think you also will act the same when we tried to destroy or insult your religion. Like what you have told me...the Hindus killed the Muslims just to protect the so-called elephant made from stone.So, what is happened now, the enemies don't want peace, then what do you expect?.

Thirdly,

23. Had All鈎 known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen, and even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away, averse (to the truth). (Surah Al-Anfaal 8:23)

My explanation:

The answer is ni the Surah Al-Baqarah. The 2nd Surah..Have you read it?.I don't think so..See below:

"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether
thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6)

See the word AS THOSE WHO REJECT FAITH!!!.Allah won't simply make you 'deaf' and 'blind'. But because of you have rejected the Faith, he makes you 'deaf' and 'blind' to hear and to see which path is true. He sent down prophets, and yet you reject the warnings...So, blame yourself, not Allah!!.:@

Fourthly,

25. And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial, etc.) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may afflict all the good and the bad people), and know that All鈎 is Severe in punishment (Surah Al-Anfaal 8:25).

My explanation:

Karma takes place?. This verse confirming what have happened today...the Tsunami, earthquake, War...and etc.Which you can see most of the place that have been hit by those disasters are place that full of bad activites and etc. Even though got good people live around the place, they also have been hit by the disasters. This is Karma?. No...because for the good people, the disasters are the trials, but for the Bad people, they are punishment.

If Karma is too good, then why the good people also have been hit by the disasters?. THINK!!

Fifthly,
"29. O you who believe! If you obey and fear All鈎, He will grant you Furq鈔 a criterion [(to judge between right and wrong), or (Makhraj, i.e. making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will expiate for you your sins, and forgive you, and All鈎 is the Owner of the Great Bounty."(Surah al-anfaal 8:29)

My explanation:

What do you expect for the atheist?. They don't even believe in Allah. So, why you blamed Allah when He didn't grant them the Furqan. Allah said in the above matter, who believes in Him, he will grant the Furqan, but the Atheist not, so blame the Atheist not Allah.

The way to get the Furqan?.

The answer:

"Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth):
To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:160)

SIMPLE!!!

So, in this case Barney, you have been blinded, because you rejected the Faith...that's why you don't even understood what you have quoted above. What makes me laugh is, you preached the false infos CONFIDENTLY, but the truth is you are like a 'TIN KOSONG".hahahaha

[ Last edited by eastrun at 31-7-2008 09:04 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 11-2-2007 12:01 PM

responded by eastrun:
My explantion:
When Allah said that the Spoils of War is for Him and His Messenger, it
doesn't mean that He needed the Spoils of war, but He tried to tell you
that He is right with tyhe spoils because the Spoils were His. And, He
has right to disperse the Spoil to whoever he wish. And Allah never
said that the Spoils of War is Haram to be taken, then, why should you
blow the trumpet bout this issue?.Well...At least the spoils can be
used to sedekah to the people in need

Copy the Code

It is you who is making me laugh. Nice way of defending the verse but sorry it carries no water. Why didn't your Allah just say that one third spoils of war should be distributed to the poor? Why must he say it must be reserved for him? Plese find some other logical explanation. Your defence id very weak.

This is because they defied and disobeyed All鈎 and His Messenger.
And whoever defies and disobeys All鈎 and His Messenger, then
verily, All鈎 is Severe in punishment.

Copy the Code

Then what happens to the freewill? Is it all whitewash or Allah did not know what he was talking about? Mohammed had made Allah contradict his own message.

This is the torment, so taste it, and surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire.

Copy the Code

So, the jealous Allah having the quality of mortals? So, if I do not believe in Mohammed and his Allah I would be tormented and thrown into hell fire? I thought Islam says Allah is all compassion, merciful and all forgiving. So, it is a confused religion with so confused followers who have to find ways ands means to defend meaningless verses or messages transmitted by Mohammed supposed to from Allah?

The Muslims act fierce when the enemies attack the religion. I think
you also will act the same when we tried to destroy or insult your
religion. Like what you have told me...the Hindus killed the Muslims
just to protect the so-called elephant made from stone.So, what is
happened now, the enemies don't want peace, then what do you expect?.

Copy the Code

Good. Defend when you or your religion is under attack. But did India attack Islam or Muslims? Why did the Muslism barbarians attack India? Did the Buddhist attack Islam then why did the talibans destroyed the statue of Buddah in Afghanistan? Who thought them to do so? Did they do it on their own or inspired by the hadith and Quran? Care to explain?

"As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether
thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:6)
See the word AS THOSE WHO REJECT FAITH!!!.Allah won't simply make you
'deaf' and 'blind'. But because of you have rejected the Faith, he
makes you 'deaf' and 'blind' to hear and to see which path is true. He
sent down prophets, and yet you reject the warnings...So, blame
yourself, not Allah!!.

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Why blame ourself? Isn't your Allah all powerful? Be and it will be but looks like when it comes to the choice of belief your Allah becomes powerless and needs a mortal like Mohammed to do his dirty work? Is there any logic in the verse you mentioned? I mean the all powerful Allah is powerless when it comes to conviencing the non believers. How is that so?

Karma takes place?. This verse confirming what have happened
today...the Tsunami, earthquake, War...and etc.Which you can see most
of the place that have been hit by those disasters are place that full
of bad activites and etc. Even though got good people live around the
place, they also have been hit by the disasters. This is Karma?.
No...because for the good people, the disasters are the trials, but for
the Bad people, they are punishment.
If Karma is too good, then why the good people also have been hit by the disasters?. THINK!!

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No, you need to think. Full of bad activities? Were you living with the poor Indons to see how they go about their daily lives? So, Islam teaches you to accuse others without even proper investigation. Those who died, some 200,000 thousand Indons were from the poor class. The had to struggle for their daily meal unlike we in Malaysia sometime throw away left overs. Karam has no distinction, good or bad will have to suffer for the past lives bad action. Not what you are trying to say without knowing anything. Islam does not know what is karma nor did your Allah explain to Mohammed what karma is all about. Karma is action of man. Anything that you do weather it is for the good of mankind or for selfish reason it is called karma yoga. Your life is decided by you action. You mistreat someone then some would mistreat you. For every action there is a reaction. You throw a ball against a wall it will bounce back to you and your action is the same. You do good then good things happen to you but when you do bad things then you will suffer bad things. Simple as that. I'm sorry to say that Mohammed had no idea of it as Allah did not explain or may be Allah did not know of such exist? That is why Islam says it is fitna or test from GOD. Why would GOD want to test you? Does he not know what is in man's heart? Does he not see every action of man? So, why this so called test? Is he doubfull of man's action? Is he afraid that man will doubt him? Go on ask these questions and you'll undewrstand what I'm saying.

What do you expect for the atheist?. They don't even believe in Allah.
So, why you blamed Allah when He didn't grant them the Furqan. Allah
said in the above matter, who believes in Him, he will grant the
Furqan, but the Atheist not, so blame the Atheist not Allah.
The way to get the Furqan?.

Copy the Code

Hello! Atheist ar far more better than believers of GOD. They do not boast of anything like what Muslims are doing. So, your Allah would only grant Furqan if one believes in him? That is the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard. Well, I can understand as you have been made to believ so. It's not your fault ciz Islam made you not to think nor reason out issues. Just believe everything dished out and be a faithfull sllave to Islam till doomsday. Well, I wish you al the best. But I assure you that you'd not see doomsday in this life nor in your next.

Now who is the empty vessel here?

eastrun · Post time 11-2-2007 12:47 PM

It is you who is making me laugh. Nice way of defending the verse but sorry it carries no water. Why didn't your Allah just say that one third spoils of war should be distributed to the poor? Why must he say it must be reserved for him? Plese find some other logical explanation. Your defence id very weak.

My answer:

When did Allah said that the spoils of war will be reserved for him?. Didn't I tell you that the spoils of war were HIS...So, it is up to Him to do what he wish to the spoils of War. He created the Spoils of War and He has right upon them. So, you don't have any right to question His right. My explanation was brief, it is only tried to be a stupid ignorant by quoting only a small part of the Holy Quran, without going into further explanation and research. Your 25 year research gain nothing except series of stupid quotations each time. That's why I laughed...

Secondly,
Then what happens to the freewill? Is it all whitewash or Allah did not know what he was talking about? Mohammed had made Allah contradict his own message.

My answer:

What is the difference between the athesit and freewill. Doing good deeds but don't have faith in God, but if they have faith, they don't really believe in it. So, they are same like those atheist that you praised about.Come on la my friend, friend, think for more intellectual answers please. Don't repeat same issue which waste your time...Heheheh

Thirdly,
So, the jealous Allah having the quality of mortals? So, if I do not believe in Mohammed and his Allah I would be tormented and thrown into hell fire? I thought Islam says Allah is all compassion, merciful and all forgiving. So, it is a confused religion with so confused followers who have to find ways ands means to defend meaningless verses or messages transmitted by Mohammed supposed to from Allah?

My answer:
I asked you...what about the story..where the Hindus killed the Muslims just because wanted to proitect the doll...so the Hindus behave just like what Allah said in the Holy Quran about Jihad. Yes Allah is Compassion and Merciful and that's why he asked you to repent as frequent as you can. Any follower from any religion will act accordingly to protect the religion.

Fourthly,

Good. Defend when you or your religion is under attack. But did India attack Islam or Muslims? Why did the Muslism barbarians attack India? Did the Buddhist attack Islam then why did the talibans destroyed the statue of Buddah in Afghanistan? Who thought them to do so? Did they do it on their own or inspired by the hadith and Quran? Care to explain?

My answer:
Good question...who taught them?. Allah never taught them to behave like them and they choose to behave like that. Then why you blame Allah. If you said it was Allah's command, why, now you can still debate with me..Well...if it is God's command, of course the Muslims (including me) will do the same, but I don't because Allah never taught that.Furthermore, you claimed you said you have done deep research within 25 years. Well...you should not be this childish by asking me this kind of question...Memalukan jer...

Fifhtly,
Why blame ourself? Isn't your Allah all powerful? Be and it will be but looks like when it comes to the choice of belief your Allah becomes powerless and needs a mortal like Mohammed to do his dirty work? Is there any logic in the verse you mentioned? I mean the all powerful Allah is powerless when it comes to conviencing the non believers. How is that so?

My answer:
Blame yourself. Because Allah already sent down his Messengers, His Books, which clearly separated the good and evil.So, when you choose the evil path, it is your respnsibe. Of course it is Allah's will to decided who will be guided, but He gave us choice. Choice and doa(ask help) can help you to get Allah's help.This shows how weak the human is.The non-believers...you dn't have to worry...Allah said, even you tell them the truth, they will reject the truth...like YOU

Sixth,
No, you need to think. Full of bad activities? Were you living with the poor Indons to see how they go about their daily lives? So, Islam teaches you to accuse others without even proper investigation. Those who died, some 200,000 thousand Indons were from the poor class. The had to struggle for their daily meal unlike we in Malaysia sometime throw away left overs. Karam has no distinction, good or bad will have to suffer for the past lives bad action. Not what you are trying to say without knowing anything. Islam does not know what is karma nor did your Allah explain to Mohammed what karma is all about. Karma is action of man. Anything that you do weather it is for the good of mankind or for selfish reason it is called karma yoga. Your life is decided by you action. You mistreat someone then some would mistreat you. For every action there is a reaction. You throw a ball against a wall it will bounce back to you and your action is the same. You do good then good things happen to you but when you do bad things then you will suffer bad things. Simple as that. I'm sorry to say that Mohammed had no idea of it as Allah did not explain or may be Allah did not know of such exist? That is why Islam says it is fitna or test from GOD. Why would GOD want to test you? Does he not know what is in man's heart? Does he not see every action of man? So, why this so called test? Is he doubfull of man's action? Is he afraid that man will doubt him? Go on ask these questions and you'll undewrstand what I'm saying.

My answer:
You should understand the Quran more before you question this, because it will make laugh louder. Allah test you with two things...Good and bad things:

"Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return" (Surah Al-Anbiya' 21:35)

So in this case, the indonesian, Allah test them with evil. So that when they have patience in it Allah will reward them when they return to Allah. Isn't this Karma?. What you do/behave during your life, you will gain them during the Day of Judgement..Allah is Fair. You do wrong, He punish you.You do good deeds, he reward you.May you prosper in this world and the Hereafter. He set trial upon us not because He doesn't know us, but He loves us. The trial, with patience,you will be rewarded, the test will wash away the sins that make you suitable to get into the heaven.Just think...how fair Allah is.You don't get the reward now, you will get the reward later.Which is better.

Finally,
Hello! Atheist ar far more better than believers of GOD. They do not boast of anything like what Muslims are doing. So, your Allah would only grant Furqan if one believes in him? That is the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard. Well, I can understand as you have been made to believ so. It's not your fault ciz Islam made you not to think nor reason out issues. Just believe everything dished out and be a faithfull sllave to Islam till doomsday. Well, I wish you al the best. But I assure you that you'd not see doomsday in this life nor in your next.

My answer:
The core question was, why the Athesit didn't get the Furqan right?.Then what the hell with the issue regarding the Muslims that faithful in Islam?.Are you jealous that Allah will reward the Muslims?.Pity you...I know...far away in your heart, you want to be one of the Muslims because you want the reward Allah's promised...but you can't because you already started as the strongest ignorant.So, malu la nant kalau tiba-tiba Barney peluk Islam.

The Athesit don't believe in Allah, then of course no Furqan for them. The verse above explained briefly enough.No question and no doubt about this...How fair Allah is..

Regards,
eastrun

[ Last edited by eastrun at 11-2-2007 12:51 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 11-2-2007 09:36 PM

responded by eastrun:
When did Allah said that the spoils of war will be reserved for him?.
Didn't I tell you that the spoils of war were HIS...So, it is up to Him
to do what he wish to the spoils of War. He created the Spoils of War
and He has right upon them. So, you don't have any right to question
His right. My explanation was brief, it is only tried to be a stupid
ignorant by quoting only a small part of the Holy Quran, without going
into further explanation and research. Your 25 year research gain
nothing except series of stupid quotations each time. That's why I
laughed...

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008.001
YUSUFALI:They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, andkeep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger,if ye do believe."

Yeh! So, you believe Allah would come down and distribute the spoils of war to the poor? As a human being I have every right to question his right because if I believe he created me than it is my right to question him of his action. Guess so, as usual the defence Muslism put up would be to say we only quote a small portion. Well, to taste the food you need not eat it but just tip it in your finger and place it in your tounge would tell you how it taste. May be Muslism need to eate the whole plate before knowing how it taste and some time even after eating the whole plate, if the food is lousy they'd still say it is tatsty.

What is the difference between the athesit and freewill. Doing good
deeds but don't have faith in God, but if they have faith, they don't
really believe in it. So, they are same like those atheist that you
praised about.Come on la my friend, friend, think for more intellectual
answers please. Don't repeat same issue which waste your time...Heheheh

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Freewill means chose a path that you believe in and not be compeled by others. Get that? It's you who need such because as I se it you are just going round and round like the same route not knowing how to find your way out. You are just pretending that you are in the right direction coz you fear being labled brain dead.

I asked you...what about the story..where the Hindus killed the Muslims
just because wanted to proitect the doll...so the Hindus behave just
like what Allah said in the Holy Quran about Jihad. Yes Allah is
Compassion and Merciful and that's why he asked you to repent as
frequent as you can. Any follower from any religion will act
accordingly to protect the religion.

Copy the Code

That is whay I asked you a question earlier and you failed to answer me. I 'll ask you again did the 2000 innocent workers in the WTC fought against Muslims or Islam? No, Allah did not say that but Muhammed said that. He did not come to tell me or the remaining 5.4 billion citizens of this planet. So why bother so much about it?

Good question...who taught them?. Allah never taught them to behave
like them and they choose to behave like that. Then why you blame
Allah. If you said it was Allah's command, why, now you can still
debate with me..Well...if it is God's command, of course the Muslims
(including me) will do the same, but I don't because Allah never taught
that.Furthermore, you claimed you said you have done deep research
within 25 years. Well...you should not be this childish by asking me
this kind of question...Memalukan jer..

Copy the Code

Are you sure Allah did not teach to act that way? May be this would help you jolt from your dreams:

009.005
YUSUFALI:But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie inwait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, andestablish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the wayfor them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Blame yourself. Because Allah already sent down his Messengers, His
Books, which clearly separated the good and evil.So, when you choose
the evil path, it is your respnsibe. Of course it is Allah's will to
decided who will be guided, but He gave us choice. Choice and doa(ask
help) can help you to get Allah's help.This shows how weak the human
is.The non-believers...you dn't have to worry...Allah said, even you
tell them the truth, they will reject the truth...like YOU

Copy the Code

Blame myself? For what? Muhammed is not a prophet to me nor my religion. He was born in Arabia and the Arabs accepted him as a prophet for their onw religion. We have our saints and sages who were far more intelligent than Mohammed was and I have better knowledge of GOD than you. You dream of GOD being in another world and the pradise he promised for Muslims. I do not dream like you. I know GOD is with each and every living entity and that this world can be a paradise if one knows how to live as such.

You should understand the Quran more before you question this, because
it will make laugh louder. Allah test you with two things...Good and
bad things:
"Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by
good by way of trial. to Us must ye return" (Surah Al-Anbiya' 21:35)

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Yeh! yeh! yeh!..... Like all other things you'd just quote this meaningless verse. Eveyone knows death is inevitable Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jains and Zorastrians. It is not the lates discovery, they all knew before Islam so what is the big deal about Isam? As I have said GOD does not need to test any one as HE know what lies in the heart of men. It is Muslims who have no answer to the suffering and enjoyment human being go through but just say it is test from GOD. Looks like Allah does not know what is in the heart of man and so he need to test him. Just like you father testing you if yo have love for him? Boy! Muslims are ,making GOD lok very small like a mortal.

So in this case, the indonesian, Allah test them with evil. So that
when they have patience in it Allah will reward them when they return
to Allah. Isn't this Karma?. What you do/behave during your life, you
will gain them during the Day of Judgement..Allah is Fair. You do
wrong, He punish you.You do good deeds, he reward you.May you prosper
in this world and the Hereafter. [b]He set trial upon us not because He
doesn't know us[/b], but He loves us. The trial, with patience,you will be
rewarded, the test will wash away the sins that make you suitable to
get into the heaven.Just think...how fair Allah is.You don't get the
reward now, you will get the reward later.Which is better.

Copy the Code

Well, well, well. Finally you agree Allah does not know man. See the highlighted sentense form your onw mouth. Why would I have faith in Allah [GOD of Musims] who does not know what lies in a man's heart. In our scripture GOD is the All Knower, Al Mighty and HE is Omnipresent. HE knows every single soul and what they were before this and what they will be after this. Now that is the true GOD the Most Powerful Supreme Being.

The core question was, why the Athesit didn't get the Furqan
right?.Then what the hell with the issue regarding the Muslims that
faithful in Islam?.Are you jealous that Allah will reward the
Muslims?.Pity you...I know...far away in your heart, you want to be one
of the Muslims because you want the reward Allah's promised...but you
can't because you already started as the strongest ignorant.So, malu la
nant kalau tiba-tiba Barney peluk Islam. : The
Athesit don't believe in Allah, then of course no Furqan for them. The
verse above explained briefly enough.No question and no doubt about
this...How fair Allah is..

Copy the Code

My dear friend, I do not expect any reward from GOD. GOD knows what I deserve from pbserving my actions. I believe whatever is in store for me during this life and the life after this is based on every of my action and good or bad I accept with whole heart. It's Muslims that I feel sorry for because they had been deluded with promise of paradise which they would not find any out there. But, I don't what to disturb your dream of something that you believe it exist. Like you 1.2 billion Muslims are draming of such but hate to dissapoint them that there is no such paradise in the hereafter. Anyway if you find one after your death hope you'll enjoy it to the fullest saticfaction.

GOOD BYE MY IGNORANT FRIEND.

eastrun · Post time 13-2-2007 06:20 PM

Yeh! So, you believe Allah would come down and distribute the spoils of war to the poor? As a human being I have every right to question his right because if I believe he created me than it is my right to question him of his action. Guess so, as usual the defence Muslism put up would be to say we only quote a small portion. Well, to taste the food you need not eat it but just tip it in your finger and place it in your tounge would tell you how it taste. May be Muslism need to eate the whole plate before knowing how it taste and some time even after eating the whole plate, if the food is lousy they'd still say it is tatsty.

My answer:
My friend, Barney, You don't read the Holy Quran.See Surah Al- Anfaal verse 41:

"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces.
For Allah hath power over all things" (Surah Al-Anfaal 8:41)

Allah clearly stated there that the Booty or spoils of War should be divided to those who in need. So, you make me feel that you are a stupid person, that very confident with your explanation, but actually you don't really know what you read. oR ELSE, I CAN CALL YOU A CUT AND PASTE MASTER.HAHAHAHA

2)Freewill means chose a path that you believe in and not be compeled by others. Get that? It's you who need such because as I se it you are just going round and round like the same route not knowing how to find your way out. You are just pretending that you are in the right direction coz you fear being labled brain dead.

My answer:
Not intellectual answer, my firend. Once again, you made a mistake, Read in the Holy Quran..Allah said, we have to make a choice:

"By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it; And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;- Truly he succeeds that purifies it, And he fails that corrupts it! " (Surah As-Syams 91:8~10)

Clearly enough my friend, Allah give us two path, the wrong and the right, who purifies the soul and choose the right one, he may prosper. So,for freewill, atheist, surely they choose the wrong path because they don't believe in God at all. Please la, don't cut and paste anymore. 25 year research gain nothing, but make you become a cut and paste master.Hehehe

3)Are you sure Allah did not teach to act that way? May be this would help you jolt from your dreams:

009.005
YUSUFALI:But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie inwait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, andestablish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the wayfor them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

My answer:
I asked you...did He tell the Muslims to kill the Pagans BLINDLY?. No, He told the Muslims to attack the Pagans because the Pagans attack the religion (Islam) through war. And if you read the verse carefully, Allah asked us to stop when the Pagans repent. How many time I need to tell you?. Allah repeated this many times.

Another verse which confirmed this:

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)" (Surah Al-Anfaal 8:61)

You didn't answer my question regarding the Hindus killed the Muslims because the doll. Well..it is same right?.

.Stop la acting holy.

.Feel like wanna vomit.

4)Blame myself? For what? Muhammed is not a prophet to me nor my religion. He was born in Arabia and the Arabs accepted him as a prophet for their onw religion. We have our saints and sages who were far more intelligent than Mohammed was and I have better knowledge of GOD than you. You dream of GOD being in another world and the pradise he promised for Muslims. I do not dream like you. I know GOD is with each and every living entity and that this world can be a paradise if one knows how to live as such.

My answer:
I thought you are great in English. Unfortunately no...I said messengerS and BookS.I don't say Muhammad alone, but it was for ALL PROPHET.Not only my religion promised the heaven for those who live with good righteousness and hell for those who not. Previous religions also promised the same thing.I am not dreaming, because my book confirming the previous books, so if you say I am dreaming, please open the previous books, THREE BOOKS confirming the existence of Heaven and Hell...Then, just your book say about so-called Karma..ketinggalan zaman.

5)
Yeh! yeh! yeh!..... Like all other things you'd just quote this meaningless verse. Eveyone knows death is inevitable Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jains and Zorastrians. It is not the lates discovery, they all knew before Islam so what is the big deal about Isam? As I have said GOD does not need to test any one as HE know what lies in the heart of men. It is Muslims who have no answer to the suffering and enjoyment human being go through but just say it is test from GOD. Looks like Allah does not know what is in the heart of man and so he need to test him. Just like you father testing you if yo have love for him? Boy! Muslims are ,making GOD lok very small like a mortal.

My answer:
I keep wondering, I always ask myself, is this what you got from the rersearch..My goodness, Waste your time.

See this verse, very brief enough, the test not because doesn't know us:

"Or do ye think that ye shall enter the Garden (of bliss) without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? they encountered suffering and adversity, and were so shaken in spirit that even the Messenger and those of faith who were with him cried: "When (will come) the help of Allah." Ah! Verily, the help of Allah is (always) near!"(SURAH AL-BAQARAH 2:214)

Clear?....

.

6)Well, well, well. Finally you agree Allah does not know man. See the highlighted sentense form your onw mouth. Why would I have faith in Allah [GOD of Musims] who does not know what lies in a man's heart. In our scripture GOD is the All Knower, Al Mighty and HE is Omnipresent. HE knows every single soul and what they were before this and what they will be after this. Now that is the true GOD the Most Powerful Supreme Being.

My answer:

My friend, I never said that. I said NOT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW US.See the setence that you have bolded.You bolded the sentence and yet you don't know what you have bolded. You doesn't how to read?. Pity you.Your parents wasted thier money by sending you to school.Silly mistake there...

7)My dear friend, I do not expect any reward from GOD. GOD knows what I deserve from pbserving my actions. I believe whatever is in store for me during this life and the life after this is based on every of my action and good or bad I accept with whole heart. It's Muslims that I feel sorry for because they had been deluded with promise of paradise which they would not find any out there. But, I don't what to disturb your dream of something that you believe it exist. Like you 1.2 billion Muslims are draming of such but hate to dissapoint them that there is no such paradise in the hereafter. Anyway if you find one after your death hope you'll enjoy it to the fullest saticfaction.

My answer:
You are lying. You don't expect any reward from God?. Then, what about the foods?.The clothes?.They are from God, yet you ignorantly say you don't need reward?.Allah is Most Merciful..you against Him, but still He
gave you the 'nikmat'. Well..I know you want to be A Muslim. Started as an ignorance person, made it become difficult.But just remember:

"Know they not that Allah doth accept repentance from His votaries and receives their gifts of charity,
and that Allah is verily He, the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful?"
(SURAH AT-TAUBAH 9:104)

Regards,
eastrun

[ Last edited by eastrun at 13-2-2007 06:36 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 13-2-2007 07:03 PM

eastrun,

Let me make it simple for yo rather than going by all you weightless reasons. You have been thought to believe in something that you or Muslims on the whole have not seen nor would see and that ends you truimph to search further. But the good news is that we have been thought to believe what we see now here in this world. The less fortunate and the miserable, the healthy and the sick, the pretty and the ugly, the able and the unable, all these are for us to learn what one must do in life in order to have a better life after this. Not something like die for the cause of your GOD and paradise awaits with open arms with virgins and wine. Simple as that.

Just figure out using your own brain instead of being told by someone what you must do or believe. One who uses his own brain knows the truth while one who lives in borrowed brain becomes blind inside and outside.

eastrun · Post time 22-2-2007 06:24 PM

Weightless reason?. I have provided to you the brief evidences, the brief explanations which you claimed you know them, but unfortunately, you are not.Come on la Barney, are you really 57 years old?.I couldn't believe because you are so childish and I wonder what you have done in 57 years old in doing research upon Islam.You gain nothing!!.

Yes, we Muslims also believe that Allah will test us on the earth, not because He is cruel, but He wants us to remember Him. Read this:

"Now, when trouble touches man, he cries to Us: But when We bestow a favour upon him as from Ourselves, he says, "This has been given to me because of a certain knowledge (I have)!" Nay, but this is but a trial, but most of them understand not!" (Surah Az-Zumar 39:49)

Barney, what have you got from the research?. You don't know about this?. Pity you

Virgins and wine?. Allah explained:

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."(Surah Al-Imran 3:7)

The wine, virgins or paradise is something we cannot see using our eyes. Only Allah knows what He really meant about paradise.So, please la Barney...don't act like a guy (kononnya dah buat research) who knows all the meaning that Allah has mentioned in the Holy Quran.

But, I am so suprised you are speechless in debating about the spoils of war..OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T KNOW ISLAM, MUHAMMAD, ALLAH AND THE HOLY QURAN.hehehe.

Because I do the research myself with Allah permission, I became clear with what I have believe and become sure with all His promises.

But you?. The master of CUT AND PASTE.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 22-2-2007 06:28 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 26-2-2007 05:49 PM

responded by eastrun: Weightless reason?. I have provided to you the brief evidences, the
brief explanations which you claimed you know them, but unfortunately,
you are not.Come on la Barney, are you really 57 years old?.I couldn't
believe because you are so childish and I wonder what you have done in
57 years old in doing research upon Islam.You gain nothing!!.
Yes, we Muslims also believe that Allah will test us on the earth, not
because He is cruel, but He wants us to remember Him. Read this:

Copy the Code

As I have said many a times that GOD does not need to test the faithfuls. As we believe HE is the All Knower who knows every detail of man so why need to test when HE is the All Knower. Get the logic my friend? So, its stupid to just say Allah is tetsting and this has become an excuse for every Muslim becuase they do not know the real truth. Period!

"Now, when trouble touches man, he cries to Us: But when We
bestow a favour upon him as from Ourselves, he says, "This has been
given to me because of a certain knowledge (I have)!" Nay, but this is
but a trial, but most of them understand not!" (Surah Az-Zumar 39:49)

Copy the Code

Well, if you believe that so be it but don't expect me to believe it. To me it is of no base and meaningless becuase it makes GOD look very weak.

Barney, what have you got from the research?. You don't know about this?. Pity you
Virgins and wine?. Allah explained:
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or
fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the
Book: others are allegorical. But
those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is
allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings,
but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who
are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the
whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except
men of understanding."(Surah Al-Imran 3:7)
The wine, virgins or paradise is something we cannot see using our
eyes. Only Allah knows what He really meant about paradise.So, please
la Barney...don't act like a guy (kononnya dah buat research) who knows
all the meaning that Allah has mentioned in the Holy Quran.

Copy the Code

So , Muslims do not know the hidden meaning behind that verse? Is that what you mean? What is the use of that verse if it has hidden meaning? Might as well abrogate it. It makes Muslims look stupid.

But, I am so suprised you are speechless in debating about the spoils
of war..OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T KNOW ISLAM, MUHAMMAD, ALLAH AND THE HOLY
QURAN.hehehe.
Because I do the research myself with Allah permission, I became clear
with what I have believe and become sure with all His promises.
But you?. The master of CUT AND PASTE.

Copy the Code

What speechless? It's you who need to answer, don't just evade the issue by saying something to confuse yourself my friend. If you cannot give a reason please withdraw from the debate instead of saying something else to evade the real issue.

I need not be a graduate from Al Azhar to know about Islam. The action of its followers is very obvious so what is there that it needs and expert scholar to explain about Islam and its Quran. The cut and past is to save time from typing the whole matter. Don't you know what it means? Such articles are for you to read and understand the problem Muslims has to face whne such truths are revealed.

eastrun · Post time 26-2-2007 07:15 PM

Firstly,
As I have said many a times that GOD does not need to test the faithfuls. As we believe HE is the All Knower who knows every detail of man so why need to test when HE is the All Knower. Get the logic my friend? So, its stupid to just say Allah is tetsting and this has become an excuse for every Muslim becuase they do not know the real truth. Period!

My answer:
"Now, when trouble touches man, he cries to Us: But when We bestow a favour upon him as from Ourselves, he says, "This has been given to me because of a certain knowledge (I have)!" Nay, but this is but a trial, but most of them understand not!" (Surah Az-Zumar 39:49

Stupid!!.Like I said before, GOD GIVES THE TEST TO REMIND US TO GET IN TO THE RIGHT PATH.NOT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW YOU,BUT HE WANTS TO REMIND YOU.A simple verse also cannot understand.Very stupid!!.See the verse above.

2.So , Muslims do not know the hidden meaning behind that verse? Is that what you mean? What is the use of that verse if it has hidden meaning? Might as well abrogate it. It makes Muslims look stupid.

My answer:

See..another stupid answer. Read the verse again...

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or
fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the
Book: others are allegorical. But
those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is
allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings,
but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who
are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the
whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except
men of understanding."(Surah Al-Imran 3:7)

Well it shows Al-Quran came from ALLAH.That's why He is the only God who knows the meaning.Therefore ALLAH asked us not to think to many about them.

Now before you blame Muslims, ask yourself..what paradise looks like?.What hell looks like?.Of course you don't know, because those are things unseen..Muslims are humans too not God. :@

And ALLAH said:

"Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path)"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:29)

3.What speechless? It's you who need to answer, don't just evade the issue by saying something to confuse yourself my friend. If you cannot give a reason please withdraw from the debate instead of saying something else to evade the real issue.

I need not be a graduate from Al Azhar to know about Islam. The action of its followers is very obvious so what is there that it needs and expert scholar to explain about Islam and its Quran. The cut and past is to save time from typing the whole matter. Don't you know what it means? Such articles are for you to read and understand the problem Muslims has to face whne such truths are revealed.

My answer:

You are speechless about the spoils of war, after I have given you strong evidences from the same Surah,which made you feel ashamed because it revealed you as a person who is reading a Surah, but doesn't know what you are reading.I already got the answer and I showed the answer to you.And everytime you question, Alhamdulillah there is an answer for your question for you from the Holy Quran. The real issue was spoils of war..and I have answered by Allah permission, it is you who still blow the trumpet here, after the questions have been clearly answered

Before you ask the Muslims to believe the articles that you pasted in the forum, it is better for you to find out whether they are true or not.I have read most of the articles.Alhamdulillah.And when I compared with The Holy Quran, they are actually using the verse twisting method.Which person like you..really love to use such method and at last you don't find the answer even the answers are already in the same book.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 26-2-2007 08:39 PM ]

enzo · Post time 27-2-2007 12:24 AM

It was an old, pathetic folk named barney50. Kah! kah! kah! Go to hell lah barney...

barney50 · Post time 27-2-2007 06:26 AM

enzo,

It also could be the other way around. Keh! keh! keh! See you there soon if it exist.

eastrun · Post time 27-2-2007 10:03 PM

Barney, like I said before, not only the Holy Quran confirming the existence of hell and heaven.Books that came before Quran also confirmed the same thing.So,Can you imagine how ketinggalan zaman your scriptures are?.

In the Bible about hell.

"Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?" Matthew 23:33

"And if thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43)

and many more..

And finally you are totally SPEECHLESS.Serve you right...

barney50 · Post time 28-2-2007 06:59 AM

responded by esatrun:
"Now, when trouble touches man, he cries to Us: But when We bestow a
favour upon him as from Ourselves, he says, "This has been given to me
because of a certain knowledge (I have)!" Nay, but this is but a trial,
but most of them understand not!" (Surah Az-Zumar 39:49
Stupid!!.Like I said before, GOD GIVES THE TEST TO REMIND US TO GET IN
TO THE RIGHT PATH.NOT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW YOU,BUT HE WANTS TO
REMIND YOU.A simple verse also cannot understand.Very stupid!!.See the
verse above.

Copy the Code

Whatever, but it makes you stupid when you say that your Allah keeps on testing man. So, for the last 1400 years Allah has yet to understand mankind? You must be the biggest joker of the century. Looks like you and your Quran love to conradict without realizing your own mistakes. First the Quran says Allah had given man the freewill than you say Allah would always test man. What's wrong with you? Doesn't Allah have other matters to attend too? What about the birds and the bees, aren't they creatures of Allah too? Is Allah testing then too? I thin k I'd better leave you to the test of Allah because Muslims found an easy way out of situations without blaming themselves but Allah alone. Great GOD your Allah because he loves to test man because he does not know if man loves him or not. So, he is powerless and cannot know what man thinks uh!????

See..another stupid answer. Read the verse again...
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or
fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the
Book: others are allegorical. But
those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is
allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings,
but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who
are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the
whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except
men of understanding."(Surah Al-Imran 3:7)
Well it shows Al-Quran came from ALLAH.That's why He is the only God
who knows the meaning.Therefore ALLAH asked us not to think to many
about them.
Now before you blame Muslims, ask yourself..what paradise looks
like?.What hell looks like?.Of course you don't know, because those are
things unseen..Muslims are humans too not God.

Copy the Code

I know why Allah said not to think too muich about the hidden meaning because he himslef does not know about his own message. Great is it not? GOD sends down message so that maniind would understand and follow it but what GOD would send down message and yet say do not dwell on the hidden meaning of it. Sounds ridicules but for Muslims its ok because Allah himself is hidden from them. You are stuck with it so live with it.

You are speechless about the spoils of war, after I have given you
strong evidences from the same Surah,which made you feel ashamed
because it revealed you as a person who is reading a Surah, but doesn't
know what you are reading.I already got the answer and I showed the
answer to you.And everytime you question, Alhamdulillah there is an
answer for your question for you from the Holy Quran. The real issue
was spoils of war..and I have answered by Allah permission, it is you
who still blow the trumpet here, after the questions have been clearly
answered
Before you ask the Muslims to believe the articles that you pasted in
the forum, it is better for you to find out whether they are true or
not.I have read most of the articles.Alhamdulillah.And when I compared
with The Holy Quran, they are actually using the verse twisting
method.Which person like you..really love to use such method and at
last you don't find the answer even the answers are already in the same
book.:

Copy the Code

Gosh! You believe in something and yet you are unable to give me a rational answer. There is no answer to questions of the 21st century in the Quran and you know it and I know it. So, do not kid yourself. Spoils of war are properties and victims taken as reward by invading force and in the case Muslims tforces that invade non Muslims countries rob the properties and take the victims as slaves. Now this they say is sancioned by Allah. GOD who is so merciful and yet ordered his prophet to rob the poor people and make them slaves. Great GOd this Allah is uh!?

eastrun · Post time 28-2-2007 10:53 PM

Whatever, but it makes you stupid when you say that your Allah keeps on testing man. So, for the last 1400 years Allah has yet to understand mankind? You must be the biggest joker of the century. Looks like you and your Quran love to conradict without realizing your own mistakes. First the Quran says Allah had given man the freewill than you say Allah would always test man. What's wrong with you? Doesn't Allah have other matters to attend too? What about the birds and the bees, aren't they creatures of Allah too? Is Allah testing then too? I thin k I'd better leave you to the test of Allah because Muslims found an easy way out of situations without blaming themselves but Allah alone. Great GOD your Allah because he loves to test man because he does not know if man loves him or not. So, he is powerless and cannot know what man thinks uh!????

My ANSWER:

Barney, a very short verse I have given to you, but you don't understand.Very silly!!.
Once again:
"Now, when trouble touches man, he cries to Us: But when We bestow a
favour upon him as from Ourselves, he says, "This has been given to me
because of a certain knowledge (I have)!" Nay, but this is but a trial,
but most of them understand not!" (Surah Az-Zumar 39:49)

The trial is to make us (human) to always remember Allah. Because when we are in the bad situations, we will always remember Allah.When Allah gives you greatness, you will become snobbish and remember Him not.So, he gave the trials so that humans will ASK HELP FROM HIM and REMEMBER HIM,not because He doesn't know His creation.Why so hard for you to understand the short verse?.

.

Did I say Allah test other than human?.Did Quran mentioned that?.My friend, you are dreaming.I never mentioned that.In fact, the Holy Quran never mentioned that.

.Only you are the one who raised the issue here

Did the verse above shows the Muslims are blaming God?.Once again, dreaming..the verse above has nothing to do about blaming God.He gives you two ways and give you choice.In making the best choice, you might forget him, so He test you, so that you will remember Him and you will be guided to the true path.SIMPLE!!!.25 year research?..Still not ale to understand a

short and simple verse.

2.I know why Allah said not to think too muich about the hidden meaning because he himslef does not know about his own message. Great is it not? GOD sends down message so that maniind would understand and follow it but what GOD would send down message and yet say do not dwell on the hidden meaning of it. Sounds ridicules but for Muslims its ok because Allah himself is hidden from them. You are stuck with it so live with it.

My answers:

Did I say all the Muslims don't know the meanings?.No I didn't.I say Muslims doesn't really know the meaning(I meant the normal Muslims) but the Muslims like Ulama' or those who Allah gave small part of His knowledge, they know what Allah meant!. In fact, it is up to Allah to tell the human what he wants.It is only you like a stupid and 'hilang pedoman' researcher, who tried to be God and try to get to know His knowledge.That's why the 25 year research made you become this.

See the verse below:

"God! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No
slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth.

Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them.

Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:255)

3.Gosh! You believe in something and yet you are unable to give me a rational answer. There is no answer to questions of the 21st century in the Quran and you know it and I know it. So, do not kid yourself. Spoils of war are properties and victims taken as reward by invading force and in the case Muslims tforces that invade non Muslims countries rob the properties and take the victims as slaves. Now this they say is sancioned by Allah. GOD who is so merciful and yet ordered his prophet to rob the poor people and make them slaves. Great GOd this Allah is uh!?

My answer:
See...once again, you don;t understand what I meant. What I meant was, lots of articles you cut and paste here, they put in the Quranic verses in the articles and then they twisted the meaning.That's what I meant. The 21st century issue?.
Quran showed on the face of it and the Hadith explains.I told you, besides Quran, the Muslims have the Hadith, the explanations of the Quran.Want to debate about this once again?. Clearly you don't understand even though I have explained clearly to you before.
Or...maybe you act like you don't understand, but actually you already understood it.
Rob the poor people?.Show me in The Holy Quran, or in the Holy Bible, or in your sriptures that Muhammad robbed the poors...or killed the childrens, killed the women.Never!!!.I fact, in each war, women and kids are not involved.Only you mentioned it.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 28-2-2007 10:54 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 1-3-2007 07:07 AM

Reply #37 to salam03's post

salam03:
The trial is to make us (human) to always remember Allah. Because when
we are in the bad situations, we will always remember Allah.When Allah
gives you greatness, you will become snobbish and remember Him not.So,
he gave the trials so that humans will ASK HELP FROM HIM and REMEMBER
HIM,not because He doesn't know His creation.Why so hard for you to
understand the short verse?

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Don't be stupid. GOD as per our scriptures in the All Knower and knows each individuals heart. Being te All Knower HE will know if you are sincere or pretentious in your believe in HIM. HE need not put you to test but let you act according to you r own freewill. It's Musims who have no answer to all that is happening to them put the blame on GOD and say it is all test. This is the most silly thouhgt of Muslims hich clearly shows Allah is not the All KNower that we believe in.

.

Did I say Allah test other than human?.Did Quran mentioned that?.My
friend, you are dreaming.I never mentioned that.In fact, the Holy Quran
never mentioned that. .Only you are the one who raised the issue here

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I don't know what you mean but I can assure you that when you mean Allah puts you test clearly inplies all human beings. Get that?

Did the verse above shows the Muslims are blaming God?.Once again,
dreaming..the verse above has nothing to do about blaming God.He gives
you two ways and give you choice.In making the best choice, you might
forget him, so He test you, so that you will remember Him and you will
be guided to the true path.SIMPLE!!!.25 year research?..Still not ale
to understand a short and simple verse.

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In short Muslims put the blame on GOD for every wrong they do. They do not have an answer because Islam has no answer but simply say TEST. Test what? Whya would the All Knower wants to test you when HE knows clearly what is hidden in your heart. Morever don't you think HE has better things to do than to test you everytime. What GOD is HE if HE does not know what lies in each individual's mind?

Did I say all the Muslims don't know the meanings?.No I didn't.I say
Muslims doesn't really know the meaning(I meant the normal Muslims) but
the Muslims like Ulama' or those who Allah gave small part of His
knowledge, they know what Allah meant!. In fact, it is up to Allah to
tell the human what he wants.It is only you like a stupid and 'hilang
pedoman' researcher, who tried to be God and try to get to know His
knowledge.That's why the 25 year research made you become this.

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So, what you mean is these Ullamas are little Mohammeds like the little Nepoleans in every department? Sure they can translate in whatever meaning that suits them and blokes like you jsut accept without any question and that you call understaning you religion. Beats me!

See the verse below:
"God! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No
slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth.
Who is there can intercede in
His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His
creatures as) before or after or behind them.
Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth.
His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth
no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the
Supreme (in glory).
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:255)

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The above means nothing if you believe he does not know what is in your heart. It makes your Allah look like an ordinary mortal.

See...once again, you don;t understand what I meant. What I meant was,
lots of articles you cut and paste here, they put in the Quranic verses
in the articles and then they twisted the meaning.That's what I meant.
The 21st century issue?. Quran showed on the face of it and the Hadith explains.I told you,
besides Quran, the Muslims have the Hadith, the explanations of the
Quran.Want to debate about this once again?. Clearly you don't
understand even though I have explained clearly to you before.
Or...maybe you act like you don't understand, but actually you already understood it.
Rob the poor people?.Show me in The Holy Quran, or in the Holy
Bible, or in your sriptures that Muhammad robbed the poors...or killed
the childrens, killed the women.Never!!!.I fact, in each war, women and
kids are not involved.Only you mentioned it.

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Yeh! Yeh! Yeh! the hadith a book invented by mere mortals to fulfill their own desire. Oh! Yes, I have understood enough to know your Allah is a powerless GOD who needs to know if you really believe in him. Loks like your Allah doubts all his followers and that is why Muslims go through all kinds of tribulations. I do not wnat to believe in a GOD who is powerless.

eastrun · Post time 1-3-2007 10:38 PM

Don't be stupid. GOD as per our scriptures in the All Knower and knows each individuals heart. Being te All Knower HE will know if you are sincere or pretentious in your believe in HIM. HE need not put you to test but let you act according to you r own freewill. It's Musims who have no answer to all that is happening to them put the blame on GOD and say it is all test. This is the most silly thouhgt of Muslims hich clearly shows Allah is not the All KNower that we believe in. .

My answer:
See..not misunderstood again.Yes, He is All Knower...Now I give you a short and brief answer.He TEST US BECAUSE HE WANTS US TO REMEMBER HIM,AND ASK HELP FROM HIM.NOT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW US...How many do I need to repeat?Maybe you are starting to become an NYANYUK OLD MAN.Pity you...

.Read the short verse sent before.

2.
I don't know what you mean but I can assure you that when you mean Allah puts you test clearly inplies all human beings. Get that?

My answer:
No...I didn't say that...you said that.I said the verse above applied to human...but you raised Allah test the bee, the animals...HEHE..Dreaming...Nyanyuk lagi..

.Read your previous post.

3.In short Muslims put the blame on GOD for every wrong they do. They do not have an answer because Islam has no answer but simply say TEST. Test what? Whya would the All Knower wants to test you when HE knows clearly what is hidden in your heart. Morever don't you think HE has better things to do than to test you everytime. What GOD is HE if HE does not know what lies in each individual's mind.

My answer:

Read the first answer above.A silly person like you will never understand and keep repeating same issue. Dah la...just confess that you understood.Stop acting.

4.So, what you mean is these Ullamas are little Mohammeds like the little Nepoleans in every department? Sure they can translate in whatever meaning that suits them and blokes like you jsut accept without any question and that you call understaning you religion. Beats me!

My answer:
Did I say they are little Mohammeds?.No...And did I say that they can translate IN WHATEVER MEANING?.No...I said this:

"...Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth..."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:255)

Many things only Allah knows, but we don't like WHAT IS SOUL?.HOW IT LOOKS?.HOW ANGEL LOOKS LIKE?.You have the answer?.So...only ALLAH knows.You, the ulama,humans and me also don't know.

And then, you tried to act like God, trying to know what He knows.Lupa daratan!!

5.The above means nothing if you believe he does not know what is in your heart. It makes your Allah look like an ordinary mortal.

My answer:
If He is an ordinary mortal, then you should now the hidden knowledge of Him.But you don't.So, you are the ordinary ignorant.People explained to you, but you refused to understand.

6.Yeh! Yeh! Yeh! the hadith a book invented by mere mortals to fulfill their own desire. Oh! Yes, I have understood enough to know your Allah is a powerless GOD who needs to know if you really believe in him. Loks like your Allah doubts all his followers and that is why Muslims go through all kinds of tribulations. I do not wnat to believe in a GOD who is powerless.

My answer:

Read this. Islam never taught the followers to kept the slaves:
"But he hath made no haste on the path that is steep.And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-(It is

freeing the bondman;Or the giving of food in a day of privation.To the orphan with claims of relationship,Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.Such are the Companions of the Right Hand."(Surah Al-Balad 90:11-18)

Only you made such statement,but the hOLY qURAN NEVER TAUGHT that.Hahaha.25 YEAR RESEARCH...YOU MUST BE A GREAT LIAR...Even a child understand all the verses that I have showed you.The older you become, the more stupid you appeared.Kesian..

[ Last edited by eastrun at 1-3-2007 10:40 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 2-3-2007 10:39 AM

Reply #39 eastrun's post

eastrun:
See..not misunderstood again.Yes, He is All Knower...Now I give you a short and brief answer.He TEST US BECAUSE HE WANTS US TO REMEMBER HIM,AND ASK HELP FROM HIM.NOT BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW US...How many do I need to repeat?Maybe you are starting to become an NYANYUK OLD MAN.Pity you... .Read the short verse sent before.

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You need to repeat the same without logic. I told you GOD is All Knower and HE knows if your faith in HIM is sincere or not. So why does HE need to test you? So, if I question your illogical reply I'm labled as NYAYUK? Looks like you've been thought by your religious teachers to evade issues that Musims do not understand by calling others names. If your Allah wnats to test Muslims it means he does not know what is in your heart and so he is not the Al Knower after all.

eastrun:
No...I didn't say that...you said that.I said the verse above applied
to human...but you raised Allah test the bee, the
animals...HEHE..Dreaming...Nyanyuk lagi.. .Read your previous post.

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I gather from your reply that your knowledge in the Al" Mighty is limited.

eastrun:
Read the first answer above.A silly person like you will never
understand and keep repeating same issue. Dah la...just confess that
you understood.Stop acting.

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Of course I underdstand but do you? It's you who says Allah test his followers but I say GOD does not need to test as HE knows what lies in your heart. So, who is lacking in the knowlegde of the Al Mighty?

eastrun:
Did I say they are little Mohammeds?.No...And did I say that they can translate IN WHATEVER MEANING?.No...I said this:
"...Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth..."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:255)
Many things only Allah knows, but we don't like WHAT IS SOUL?.HOW IT
LOOKS?.HOW ANGEL LOOKS LIKE?.You have the answer?.So...only ALLAH
knows.You, the ulama,humans and me also don't know.
And then, you tried to act like God, trying to know what He knows.Lupa daratan!!

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First you say people of knowledge knows the secret and now you say they don't. Which is which? Either you stick to your claim otherwise just admit you have no knowledge. Listen, we Hindus are an expert in knowledge of the soul which early Christians refuse to believe but now accept the Hindu theory. The soul or Atman as we call is immortal. There is no death for soul. You cannot kill it nor destroy it. IT's ever living because it comes from GOD and goes back to GOD. As long as GOD is there so will the soul be. Understand that if your religion does not teach you about it. Angles can come in any from but in reality they are in spirit form because they are sent down by GOD like our soul that comes from HIM. It's a pity your religion is ignorant of such facts.

eastrun:
If He is an ordinary mortal, then you should now the hidden knowledge
of Him.But you don't.So, you are the ordinary ignorant.People explained
to you, but you refused to understand.

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Read my sentense, "Mulisms make HIM look like mortal". But we understand HIM as HE has no beginning nor an end, HE is formless and HE can be in a form, HE is inside as well as outside and HE can be here and everywhere. That is GOD.

eastrun::
Read this. Islam never taught the followers to kept the slaves:
"But he hath made no haste on the path that is steep.And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-(It is freeing the bondman;Or
the giving of food in a day of privation.To the orphan with claims of
relationship,Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.Then will he be of
those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and
self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.Such are
the Companions of the Right Hand."(Surah Al-Balad 90:11-18)
Only you made such statement,but the hOLY qURAN NEVER TAUGHT
that.Hahaha.25 YEAR RESEARCH...YOU MUST BE A GREAT LIAR...Even a child
understand all the verses that I have showed you.The older you become,
the more stupid you appeared.Kesian..

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That is what it says but that is not what Mohammed your prophet practiced. He had slaves and he ensalved those who fought against him. He traded in salves and he slept with slave women. That is a fact and you have to live with it.