Isu Agama Syiah serta persoalan Akidah dan Feqah ... [split topik]

JieShiang

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 14-9-2008 04:24 PM


hahaha..!!

Sudah tukar ka...

To clear the air and point out the real culprit.

Ente setuju tak dengan format perbincangan yang ana cadangkan...?

No problem.

Triple_8

Setuju bereh. Saya jadi encik pengerusi.

Marja'ie

Dengan pantas dan mudahnya, ana menjawab:

"Tidak...!!!"

JieShiang

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 15-9-2008 12:44 PM
Dengan pantas dan mudahnya, ana menjawab:

"Tidak...!!!"

So you decided to say "NO". The implication is that:

The inference now becomes

    A belief that a father can't marry his daughter is NOT AKIDAH of sunni
    A belief that a father can't marry his daughter is in Quran
    Therefore, Whatever in the Quran is NOT AKIDAH of sunni

Are you really telling me that it's okay for a sunni father to marry his biological daughter because it's not akidah of sunni?

Then this leads to;

   Whatever in the Quran is NOT AKIDAH of sunni
   Therefore, It is allowed to believe one verse of Quran and ignore the others.

Is it okay to believe one verse and disbelieve the other verse in Quran according to sunni?
It's contrary to "Rukun Iman" i.e. Believe in Quran (which means that we must believe in the whole content of Quran).

And also contradicts with the statement that said:

  The akidah of Sunni is Al-Quran and sunnah (hadith).

If the akidah of Sunni is Quran and sunnah, you must believe in the whole verses of Quran, and it's the akidah of sunni.

So, probably you are confused with your answer. Please clarify your answer why you said "No".

Marja'ie

Tuan pengerusi,

Boleh ana bertanya pula....?

Triple_8

Memandangkan ente dah jawab soalan yang diajukan oleh jishang yang sekarang sedang memakai topi syiah, sekarang giliran ente pulak untuk bertanya, sesuai dengan format yang telah dipersetujui.

Inferens yang terhasil daripada daripada jawapan ente itu, kita ketepikan buat seketika.

Dipersilakan.

Marja'ie

Originally posted by JieShiang at 15-9-2008 03:13 PM


So you decided to say "NO". The implication is that:

The inference now becomes

    A belief that a father can't marry his daughter is NOT AKIDAH of sunni
    A belief that a father can ...

Bhaiyya....

Sabar dulu...jangan laju sangat nak buat inference ka apa ka....??
Ana dah jawab persoalan ente..

Is it Sunni Akidah to believe that a father can't marry his daughter?The answer's either Yes or No. (perhap with a little bit of explanationwhy you say yes or no)

So, sebelum ente mao bertanya lagi, izinkan ana bertanya dulu mengikut format perbincangan yang telah dipersetujui...

Soalan yang pertama dari ana....

"Adakah syiah mempercayai semua yang terdapat di dalam alquran itu sebagai aqidah?"

The answer's either Yes or No....

JieShiang

Originally posted by Triple_8 at 15-9-2008 12:36 PM
Setuju bereh. Saya jadi encik pengerusi.

First, you need to justify that you are qualified to be a "pengerusi". Don't you think that it's really biased if you become the pengerusi? You are the accuser and I'm the defender of your initial posting... remember, you claim shia as agama? Thus, you are highly not qualified... (biasalah kan sunni/wahabi kat sini nak impose value sampai masuk bakul angkat sendiri).. Your position as pengerusi is rubbish and unacceptable because of conflict of interest.

JieShiang

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 15-9-2008 03:14 PM
Tuan pengerusi,

Boleh ana bertanya pula....?

This is absurd! You can ask any question, there is no pengerusi.. just ask anything you want...

JieShiang

Originally posted by Triple_8 at 15-9-2008 03:30 PM
Memandangkan ente dah jawab soalan yang diajukan oleh jishang yang sekarang sedang memakai topi syiah, sekarang giliran ente pulak untuk bertanya, sesuai dengan format yang telah dipersetujui.

Dipersilakan.

Prove to me that I'm wearing "topi syiah". I said I'm neither sunni nor shia, I'm a muslim. Your assumption is basedless, unacceptable and rubbish. I'm here to prove that your statement (shia is agama) is rubbish. So, I don't need to wear shia cap to prove that.

Inferens yang terhasil daripada daripada jawapan ente itu, kita ketepikan buat seketika.

Who give you the authority to decide that ?... angkat bakul sendiri... that's the sign of "kecut perut" with my argument..

[ Last edited by  JieShiang at 15-9-2008 05:26 PM ]

novadead

nyampah haku baca posting mangkuk jieshiang neh..!!
orang berdebat dia pon nak berdebat.....
perkara furu' ngn akidah pon tak reti nak beza lg....
kuhnon nak berdebat tuu....... ppprrrrffhffhhfghf

ibnur

Dah korang jangan nak main-main.  Karang aku lock thread langsung tak leh bincang.

Triple_8

Originally posted by JieShiang at 9-9-2008 06:09 PM


Sometimes, don't be fooled by me. When it comes to discussion/debate, Ihave many caps to wear. But don't worry, I'm consistent when wearing acertain cap (nickname). I can be a shia, sunni, ahmadi, or evenanti-hadith. Never be a wahabi yet. I do it just for the sake ofdiscussion or academic couriosity.

Maknanya awak ni tak kisah kalau awak jadi apa pun. Jadi sunnah pun tak apa, jadi syiah pun tak apa, jadi qadyani pun tak apa, jadi anti-hadis pun tak apa, awak ni ada pegangan ke sebenarnya? Sampai tak kisah kalau jadi apa pun? Kononnya untuk pendidikan.

Awak standby banyak-banyak topeng macam penjenayah ni nak buat apa?

Tak ubah macam penjenayah yang menyediakan macam-macam nombor plat kereta untuk melarikan diri daripada polis.

[ Last edited by  Triple_8 at 15-9-2008 10:13 PM ]

ibnur

dari perbincangan berilmiah di page pertama sekarang dah jadi cerita suai kenal pulak.  maka thread ni dikeluarkan dari digest.

Triple_8

yelah yelah. Aku cuma tak puas hati mamat ni tak mengaku pakai topi syiah pulak.

Balik kepada perbicaraan 'ilmiah'

ahli sunnah kata bukan semua yang ada dalam quran ni adalah akidah.

dalam post #27, marjaie kita tanya balik jishang "Adakah syiah menganggap semua yang ada dalam quran ni adalah akidah?"

Kita nanti dengar jawapannya...

JieShiang

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 15-9-2008 03:55 PM

So, sebelum ente mao bertanya lagi, izinkan ana bertanya dulu mengikut format perbincangan yang telah dipersetujui...

"Format yg dipersetujui"? Look back at your format...

Beginilah, ente dah tanya dan ana pun dah jawab...ente tanya balik...tak "fair"lah gitu...
Biarlah formatnya begini, ente tanya, ana jawab, kemudian ana tanya ente jawab....begitulah seterusnya..

Of course your format is what we normally practice in Forum Cari. After I post,you post, then I post again, then you post again and so on...
Unless you mean one post, one question or answer, that's really weird.. it's not a forum, it's called "chatting". There will be too many posts that Mod Ibnur can't handle, so there will be splits again and again.. Nothing like that being imposed here before in the forum... why do you want to impose that? are you already "senak" aaa?

Soalan yang pertama dari ana....

"Adakah syiah mempercayai semua yang terdapat di dalam alquran itu sebagai aqidah?"

The answer's either Yes or No....

It's good you ask me this question. I will answer you from my philosophical point of view (not shia point of view) because I already claimed that I'm neither shia nor sunni.

To answer you:

Shia believe that whatever in Quran is akidah. (So, the answer is YES)

Unlike sunni akidah (Quran and sunnah), shia akidah is Quran and ahlul-bait (12-imams). The difference is that sunni believe in sunnah (hadith) while shia believe in ahlul-bait. The difference will inshaallah be discussed later. Let's look at the similarity i.e. belief in Quran so that it's easier to understand the true meaning of akidah.

The word akidah is used to differentiate between a non-religious issue and religious issue. For non-religious issue, we don't say it akidah, it's just a normal "belief" i.e. I believe tomorrow will rain (raining is non-religious issue). But for religious issue i.e. I believe that a father can't marry his biological daughter, it's considered akidah because the belief is mentioned in Quran and/or hadith (sunni) or by ahlul-bait (shia).  

I hope the true meaning of akidah is clear.

[ Last edited by  JieShiang at 16-9-2008 11:26 AM ]

JieShiang

Originally posted by novadead at 15-9-2008 05:32 PM
nyampah haku baca posting mangkuk jieshiang neh..!!
orang berdebat dia pon nak berdebat.....
perkara furu' ngn akidah pon tak reti nak beza lg....
kuhnon nak berdebat tuu....... ppprrrrffhffhh ...

Be patient... don't get confused with the meaning of 'furu' and 'akidah'... inshaallah that issue i.e classification of akidah will be discussed soon when we look at the relationship between the word akidah and fekah...

JieShiang

Originally posted by Triple_8 at 15-9-2008 09:36 PM

Maknanya awak ni tak kisah kalau awak jadi apa pun. Jadi sunnah pun tak apa, jadi syiah pun tak apa, jadi qadyani pun tak apa, jadi anti-hadis pun tak apa, awak ni ada pegangan ke sebenarnya? Sampai tak kisah kalau jadi apa pun? Kononnya untuk pendidikan.

Akidah has to do with what a real person believes. It is not necessary for a nickname to represent a real person. Therefore, it's not necessary for a nickname to have the same akidah as the real person.   

What I meant by Ahmadi is Lahore Ahmadiyah, not Qadiani.

Awak standby banyak-banyak topeng macam penjenayah ni nak buat apa?

Tak ubah macam penjenayah yang menyediakan macam-macam nombor plat kereta untuk melarikan diri daripada polis.

To clarify what have been misunderstood, to help those who are being mistreated religiously and to see whether the opponents have valid arguments.

JieShiang

Originally posted by Triple_8 at 16-9-2008 11:15 AM
ahli sunnah kata bukan semua yang ada dalam quran ni adalah akidah.

If your statement is true, then, sunni don't mean what they say and don't say what they mean (Normally, we call people like this "crazy" or "mad"). The reasons being:

(1)
Rukun Islam and Rukun Iman are considered akidah of sunni (ask any Sunni, they will say true).
In Rukun Iman, Sunni must believe in Quran, that's akidah.
So what do Sunni mean when they say they "believe in Quran"? Isn't it the content of Quran?

(2)
Sunni believe that their akidah is Quran and hadith (ask any Sunni, they will say true).
So what do Sunni mean when they say their akidah is Quran? Isn't it the content of Quran?

(3)
Sunni must believe in all verses of Quran. It's prohibited to believe in one verse and ignore the other.

Marja'ie

Originally posted by novadead at 15-9-2008 05:32 PM
nyampah haku baca posting mangkuk jieshiang neh..!!
orang berdebat dia pon nak berdebat.....
perkara furu' ngn akidah pon tak reti nak beza lg....
kuhnon nak berdebat tuu....... ppprrrrffhffhh ...

Sabar sedara....
Bulan puasa ni....