ONLY "NOT SO SMART" PEOPLE INVEST IN MUTUAL FUNDS

batu kikir

Originally posted by Andak at 27-9-2005 01:04 PM
Investment is about risk... Its depends on what kind of risk u are willing to take... UT performance is related to performances of the KLSE.... so, if u invest when the market is at all time high a ...

Yes Andak. Investment is about risk. But if you spend so much time monitoring unit trust, why involve in unit trust anyway. Better involve directly in the stock market, analyse a good stock, buy it and sell it. All the profit is yours. Thats sound much better.

It is irony all these hoo haa abt unit trust where their return can outperform or better than KLSE or the bond market or the money market where these are the very market they are involve in. If the bond market returns are around 4% annually, how could unit trust based on fixed income instrument can yield up to 20%. Conmen or what?

sany48

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 09:36 AM


Yes Andak. Investment is about risk. But if you spend so much time monitoring unit trust, why involve in unit trust anyway. Better involve directly in the stock market, analyse a good stock, bu ...

Hi,

There is no conmen or what here... I tell you my friend.. in SBB itself, if unit trust is really killin people..how come Bank Negara and Security Commission have approve another two new funds recently which are
   
   1. RGF 1 (Conventional)
   2. Dana Al I'tidal (Syariah)

As for Jan 2005 , there RM4,874,956,206.00 and RM2,795,757,200.00  invested in SBB for conventional and syariah respectively. Now, the SBB total approved unit is 16.85 billion......It is not a cone. It is for real..still not happy.. log on to

www.sbbmutual2u.com

Yet, we have not look at the total invested in Public Mutual, MAAKL, Hwang DBS .. Also, you should know that all unit trust have capitalized about 11% share in Bursa Malaysia now... We are in the process of getting at least 40% unit tust in the Bursa Malaysia by year 2020 . It like what is applied in the  developed countries such as JAPAN, US and Singapore.. In fact INDIA is ahead of us now..
   
Yes!.. there are a few funds which generate the return as much as 20% as below:

    (Conventional)
   1. DGF                  = 30.08% (At annual financial end, 2004) . Avg for 3 years = 14.34%
   2. RBF                   = 31.94% (At annual financial end, 2004) . Avg for 3 year =  16.56%
  
     (Syariah)
   3. Dana Al-Hikmah = 19.08%, Average for 3 years  = None (New fund introduced)

This data is approved by both Bank Negara and SC. You might wanna ask any SBB agent nearest tu you.

Regards,
Sany

[ Last edited by sany48 at 28-9-2005 10:52 AM ]

Andak

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 09:36 AM


Yes Andak. Investment is about risk. But if you spend so much time monitoring unit trust, why involve in unit trust anyway. Better involve directly in the stock market, analyse a good stock, bu ...

Yes, if u can involve directly at KLSE and u are willing to take the risk, why not.. High risk, high return is the names of the games.. we are talking about our money... u make your own move and bear the risk yourself... but to me, i am not daring enough to take all the risk by myself, thats why i invest in unit trust..  i spread my risk..I know i wont and never make the killing but on the average on long term basis i make more in unit trust then savings/epf... as we know, bank rakyat is a closed case....

zamz00

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 09:36 AM


Yes Andak. Investment is about risk. But if you spend so much time monitoring unit trust, why involve in unit trust anyway. Better involve directly in the stock market, analyse a good stock, bu ...

actually, as for bond market the fund manager does not depends on the yield je..bond pun mcm equity jugak..price dia turun naik ..kalau beli murah jual mahal..tu yg boleh dpt return 20% tu...

Andak

Originally posted by zamz00 at 28-9-2005 12:16 PM




actually, as for bond market the fund manager does not depends on the yield je..bond pun mcm equity jugak..price dia turun naik ..kalau beli murah jual mahal..tu yg boleh dpt return 20% tu...

tapi berapa lama dan berapa kali bond leh give return 20%... rasanyer jarang sekali..

Originally posted by shahgti at 28-9-2005 02:17 AM


memang ler. ramai yg tahu kiyosaki ni penyampaiannya fiction sket tapi kalau kita tapis2 & positive thinking ada gak betulnya. contohnya Kiyosaki kata, poor & middle class people spent  ...

Alangkah nabi Muhammad pun orang kata fraud, inikan pulak Robert Kiyosaki.... ;)

Yang penting ialah mesej yang dia sampaikan. Kalau fikir yang mesej tu berguna untuk jadi guide kita dalam kendalikan financial kita, then follow as wished. Kalau rasa cara Pak Man Telo kendalikan financial tu lebih umpph, then ikut la Pak Man Telo....

Aku suka part yang aku quote kat atas tu. Orang yang kuat komplen dan salahkan majikan adalah orang yang paling tak produktif dalam syarikat tu, dan akhirnya sama ada kena pecat atau berhenti sendiri... :cak:

sany48

Originally posted by Andak at 28-9-2005 01:02 PM


tapi berapa lama dan berapa kali bond leh give return 20%... rasanyer jarang sekali..

My friend,

If you wanna buy Government Bond, if I am not mistaken..you gotta have some minimum amout of money as much as Rm 5 million..(pls correct me if I am wrong).....still if you do not have enough money.. you can buy UT...Actually in UT, there are also Goverment Bond, Goverment Certifcates, etc available.

Let say no, you have RM5,000.00 only. Why do I propose you to invest in UT?

At RM5,000.00. definitely you can't buy any Bond.. but.. in UT since there is another 10,000 people who are investing the same amount of money,  the combined money becomes RM50,000,000.00

With this large amount of money, not only you can buy bonds, but also others shares in Bursa Malaysia too. In UT, we call in DIVERSIFICATION. It means that ouf of RM5,000, you money is invested in different potfolios. Of course you will only get the return base on you quantity unit bought.

For example,

  RM1,000.00 is invest in Dana Al Ihsan - 90%  exposed to Bursa Malaysia
  RM2,000.00 is invested in Dana Al-Mizan -  40% exposed to Bursa Malaysia, 60% to Liquid Asset/Fixed Income..
  RM2,000.00 is invested in Dana Al-Hafiz  - Only invested in Fixed Income potfolio such as Bonds, Certificates, etc

So at any time, the Bursa drops, only some portion of your investmen will be affected. For Bond, the longer the investment, the higher the return (Depend on Maturity) . In other word, not all funds in UT are affected by the Bursa Malaysia inddex fluctuation. Thus, the risk is merely depend on what kinda fund do you buy...

For your information too, in UT particularly in SBB, there are 4 types fund

a. Equity funds ie Dana Al-Ihsan
b. Balanced fund ie Dana Al-Mizan
c. Fixed Income fund ie Dana Al-Hafiz
d. Money Market Fund MMF.. similar to ASB.

So the risk of investment is basically depend onthe type of fund you choose. If you choose Fixed Income Fund where majority of fund is invested in Bond, Ceritificates, you will have less risk.

Morale of the story:
1. It will be safer to invest in UT since you can duse DIVERSIFICATION method.
2. Even in UT, you can also invest in Bonds.



Regards,
Sany

zamz00

usually mmg bond market ni susah skit nak bagi return byk2 sgt ..unless the fund manager tu mmg aggressive betullah

sany48

Originally posted by zamz00 at 28-9-2005 02:24 PM
usually mmg bond market ni susah skit nak bagi return byk2 sgt ..unless the fund manager tu mmg aggressive betullah

Yeap... Bonds is considered a fixed income type in SBB.. regular one.. so of of course anything is fixed..not much risk..definitely it will give moderate return.. again there is less risk available..this is applied for the no risk taker person..

Anyway, you have to wait for some period of time.. the longer you invest, the risk will be greater..the higher return you gonna get..as simple as that...




Sany

zamz00

Originally posted by sany48 at 28-9-2005 02:19 PM


My friend,

If you wanna buy Government Bond, if I am not mistaken..you gotta have some minimum amout of money as much as Rm 5 million..(pls correct me if I am wrong).....still if you do not  ...

betul.. 1 lot rm 5 mio
tak penah dgr plak individual beli bond kat mkt

batu kikir

Originally posted by sany48 at 28-9-2005 02:19 PM

RM2,000.00 is invested in Dana Al-Hafiz牋- Only invested in Fixed Income potfolio such as Bonds, Certificates, etc

And how could Dana Al Hafiz can outperform the bond market itself where the yield of bond at the moment is around 4 - 6%. Although price of bond is inverse related to interest rates,  the yield of both is not too far different.

Put it this way,
You invest in your friend's business. Agreed at 50 -50 sharing basis. Your friend announced that profit for the company is Ringgit 1 million. What on earth you can get Ringgit 2 million for your portion in the business where the max. you can get should be  Ringgit 500K?

zamz00

Originally posted by sany48 at 28-9-2005 02:34 PM


Yeap... Bonds is considered a fixed income type in SBB.. regular one.. so of of course anything is fixed..not much risk..definitely it will give moderate return.. again there is less risk avail ...

susah nak cakap fixed income ni not so much risk..
sbb bila cakap pasal fixed income ni...the return (interest rate) is fixed...but there are still price risk..meaning that still ada possibility nak loss...unless fund manager just buy   and hold sampai maturity..

batu kikir

Originally posted by Andak at 28-9-2005 11:28 AM

High risk, high return is the names of the games..

Using your own word, UT having higher return should have higher risk. Or vice versa.

batu kikir

Originally posted by zamz00 at 28-9-2005 03:22 PM



susah nak cakap fixed income ni not so much risk..
sbb bila cakap pasal fixed income ni...the return (interest rate) is fixed...but there are still price risk..meaning that still ada possibi ...

Who said that bond has no risk? If you hold a 4% coupon bond and the interest rate is uprising, you can only sell your bond below par unless you want to keep them until maturity.
Corporate bonds even have higher risk of non-payment at redemption.

zamz00

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 03:20 PM


And how could Dana Al Hafiz can outperform the bond market itself where the yield of bond at the moment is around 4 - 6%. Although price of bond is inverse related to interest rates,  the yield ...

sbbnya the fund manager trade the bond...buy low sell high..
thats how they make profit..
bukan rely on yield je....sbb tu they can outperform the market

Andak

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 03:22 PM


Using your own word, UT having higher return should have higher risk. Or vice versa.

Nop... To me UT risk is moderate, thats why their return is moderate but better compare to EPF and saving a/c in the long run..KLSE risk is higher that why if u want to make a killing or be killed, invest in the KLSE directly. To some, KLSE is like a casino... I spread my risk, so i have to spread my return too... I dont think u can have the best of both world..

batu kikir

Originally posted by zamz00 at 28-9-2005 03:57 PM

sebabnya the fund manager trade the bond...buy low sell high..
thats how they make profit..
bukan rely on yield je....sbb tu they can outperform the market

True but not that easy.

Assume current interest rate is 5%, your bond is having 5% coupon too, the price of your bond will be at par (100% of the face value ; pls disregard tenor and risk factor)
But if current inetrest moves to 6%, your bond is no more attractive and if you want to sell the bond, you need to sell under par (i.e. below 100% of the face value)

p/s looking at the current interest rates (pls factor the US interest rate also) - the indicator is that local interest will be rising in the future and the bond market will be dead. It works well when interest rates moves downward.

zamz00

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 05:22 PM

True but not that easy.

Assume current interest rate is 5%, your bond is having 5% coupon too, the price of your bond will be at par (100% of the face value ; pls disregard tenor and risk factor)
But if current inetrest moves to 6%, your bond is no more attractive and if you want to sell the bond, you need to sell under par (i.e. below 100% of the face value)

p/s looking at the current interest rates (pls factor the US interest rate also) - the indicator is that local interest will be rising in the future and the bond market will be dead. It works well when interest rates moves downward.

true..but
bukan sume org buying at par..
and yield ni bukan  depends on interest rate je...ada yield curve factor..
bukan main pukul flat je...katakan la gomen naikkan interest rate..that may affect short term interest rate je..and also short term bond je....yg long term bond still not affected..

and then selling below par does not mean u are making losses...becos its not necessarily u buy at par..

actually pjg cite plak nak cite pasal yield curve and bond price ni...korang free pegila course kat ibbm tu yek ke kat ram ke hehe

sany48

Originally posted by zamz00 at 28-9-2005 03:06 PM



betul.. 1 lot rm 5 mio
tak penah dgr plak individual beli bond kat mkt

Apa pulak individualnya bang oiiiiiiiiiiiii.. kita invest kat UT la dulu.... when there is enough money for that partucular fund.. a fixed income type.....then the Fund Manager will buy it for you..... as simple as that..Do not get confuse here....



Sany

sany48

Originally posted by batu kikir at 28-9-2005 03:20 PM


And how could Dana Al Hafiz can outperform the bond market itself where the yield of bond at the moment is around 4 - 6%. Although price of bond is inverse related to interest rates,  the yield ...

Hi,

Pretty simple answer,

That is the beauty of UT.  Even you bounded by Bond, you must remember that there are 3 type of source of return from UT which are:

1. The rise in unit price (We call it capital appreciation)
2. The annual dividen/distribution/bonus declared
3. The unit split declared.

Of course at one point of time, once the item 2 and 3 declared, there is no value added, but once the unit price
increase.., the value RM will definitely increase..

Not to mention that Dana Al-hafiz does not merely 100% subscribe bond.

For you information, as of Jan 2005, there are RM515,853,000.00 available in this fund. Enough to invest elsewhere.

Due to DIVERSIFICATION capability, some of these money of this fund  have been invested to other fixed income potfolios. So there might have generated extra income besides getting from Bond. Thus, it will be able to contribute much more return to the investors.

Have I made any point here?


Sany

[ Last edited by sany48 at 28-9-2005 09:20 PM ]