Konsili Nicea

7anan

still, apo kaitan ngan bible error
gospel n bible tu sama ka

zaharul_asriq94

Reply 41# 7anan

gospel 4 kan dalam bible? x tau ka? dah tngok ke blum?

7anan

logik lah, pasai mula2 depa bahaiskan bab2 kristologi, akidah twoness n trinity baru depa pilih canon hat sesuai dgn prinsip depa tu n bakar gospel2 hat betentangan

sekngucing

diharap forumer2 jgan dok buat thread dlm board ni mcm thread agama >> agama aku lgi hebat dari agama kau
-kalau nak pertikai agama org, gi kat board RSF
-kat sini kita nak tambah ilmu pengetahuan drpd forumer tak kira latar belakang agama ka kepercayaan

zaharul_asriq94

Reply 43# 7anan

siapakah mereka nak tentukan bab akidah2 dan tentukan yang mana kitab Tuhan? haha...baik ko baca Muhammad 'ata ur-Rahim, Jesus, A Prophet of Islam, baru kau faham

zaharul_asriq94

Reply 44# sekngucing

7anan

Reply  7anan

siapakah mereka nak tentukan bab akidah2 dan tentukan yang mana kitab Tuhan? haha.. ...
zaharul_asriq94 Post at 21-12-2010 19:13

dh baca dh, ms aku buat undergrad course dolu2, aku join friendly comparative religion anjuran IIS (alah hat bro YM engku fauzi, bro lim jooi soon etc tuh slalu dtg usm buat kelas) n deba provide byk buku2 nih tp aku pong nk baca the other side ponya pendapat jugok...pasai aku bonya prof habaqq kalu kita praktis evidence based medicine dlm kerja, takkan tang agama kita tak buleh evidence based n pakai taklid bota n bias dkt one side jah kaan...

zaharul_asriq94

Reply 47# 7anan

so dh tau apsal buat2 mcm x tau plak kat sini? adoooi

7anan

diharap forumer2 jgan dok buat thread dlm board ni mcm thread agama >> agama aku lgi hebat dari agam ...
sekngucing Post at 21-12-2010 19:12

tuh la kat rsf tu bohsan la aku tgk depa mroyan sorg2 pasai tak interesting lgsong cara depa debate asyik kopi pes

zaharul_asriq94

The Annals of King David
1 Chronicles 27:24  Joab son of Zeruiah began to count the men but did not finish. Wrath came on Israel on account of this numbering, and the number was not entered in the book of the annals of King David

ke mana perginya?

Acts of Solomon
1 Kings 11:41  And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon?

ke mana perginya?

Book of the Wars of the Lord
Numbers 21:14  Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

teringat plak citer Supernatural...

zaharul_asriq94

Reply 49# 7anan

bro dh tngok blom nama2 dokumntari yg aq kasi?

7anan

Reply  7anan

so dh tau apsal buat2 mcm x tau plak kat sini? adoooi
zaharul_asriq94 Post at 21-12-2010 19:22

aku dh tau pendapat org islam hat mengkaji, tp aku tak tau lg pasai pendapat layen2 so buleh la aku buat pebandingan...biasa la dek kalu dh masok postgrad naati nk buat research pong kena ada counter study utk buat pebandingan...tak buleh nk stick pada satu pendapat jah...kena variasikan gitew

weh nok gareeb doh...sat gi on call pulok

unekspekted

Reply 35# 7anan

quran dh hapai ka blom

hapall je tak gune klu tak tau isi kandung.. jgn jadi burung kakatua

winamp05

Reply  7anan



hapall je tak gune klu tak tau isi kandung.. jgn jadi burung kakatua
unekspekted Post at 22-12-2010 09:28 AM

hafal lain, hafiz lain, translate lain, tafsir pun lain. bidang yg berlainan dan cabang ilmu yang berlainan. paling susah nak maintain talam tafsir quran la. macam macam cabang ilmu kene belajo dolu baru belajo tafsir.

zaharul_asriq94

Reply 53# unekspekted

jgn burung kakaktua?

7anan

haha aku bukan mcm rmi worg mlayu hat tau baca quran belagu2 tp tak paham satu apa...cuba tanya zaharul, kita syed mmg fasih ckp arab kan zaharul kan

lg satu kalu dlm program tahfiz kt skolah aku dolu, mmg belajaq ulum quran n ulum hadith sesambil tafsir hat tradisional as well as tafsir kontemporari...ko lagu mana? zaharul tak join ka skolah ashraf

7anan

hafal lain, hafiz lain, translate lain, tafsir pun lain. bidang yg berlainan dan cabang ilmu yan ...
winamp05 Post at 22-12-2010 11:20

yuppa, tejemahan tuh tak yah belajaq tak pa....skali baca teruih paham tp hat melayu tak reti arab mumkin kena bukak tejemahan skali...tang tafsir tuh, kena ada kitab laa....sbb tafsir nih interpretation n paling baguih jaman la ni tafsir fi zilal laah, by syed qutb, tu kontemporari...kalu ibn kathir n at-tabari nih nk tau comparison dgn kitab2 torat n injil etc...kalu ar-rahman nih mcm skali ngn kajian (ni harun yahya dok guna)

cmf_shalom

Secara umumnya, Konsili Nicea diadakan untuk mempertahankan akidah Kristian dari fahaman menyeleweng.

Berdasarkan fahaman Arius, Yesus bukan secara eternal sedia ada. Bapa mencipta Yesus, kemudian melalui Yesus segala sesuatu dijadikan. Arius meletakkan Yesus sebagai semi-god. Ini adalah bertentangan dengan fahaman orthodox umat kristian..dimana Bapa, Firman dan Roh Kudus adalah satu darjat, satu kemuliaan, satu kehendak, satu kuasa.

Walaupun pada pringkat ontologi, perumusan Arius berbeza daripada fahaman orthodox kristian, tetapi  pada peringkat ekonomic Arius percaya bahawa Yesus mati untuk tujuan pengampunan dosa.

Persidangan Nicea lansung tidak menyentuh berkenaan Injil. Pemilihan injil dipersidangan Nicea hanyalah myth.

Sama juga, Yesus tidak diangkat menjadi tuhan pada persidangan Nicea. Bishop yang datang bersidang di Nicea hanya mempertahankan perumusan orthodox umat Kristian daripada pengaruh gnostik.

cmf_shalom

Legenda Persidangan Nicea memberitahu kita bahawa Keilahian Yesus hanya diperkenalkan semasa Nicea 325 AD. Sebelum 325 AD umat Kristian dikatakan percaya Yesus hanyalah nabi. Legenda ini diulang dalam teori Davinci code. Mari kita lihat penulisan umat Kristian yang awal tentang ketuhanan Yesus.

74 AD The Letter of Barnabas "And further, my brethren, if the Lord [Jesus] endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, 'Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,' understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men" (Letter of Barnabas 5).

80 AD Hermas "The Son of God is older than all his creation, so that he became the Father's adviser in his creation. Therefore also he is ancient" (The Shepherd 12).

150 AD Justin Martyr "Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts." (Dialogue with Trypho, ch, 36)

150 AD Justin Martyr "Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Christ] is witnessed to by Him who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ." - Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 63.

150 AD Polycarp of Smyrna "I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 14).

160 AD Mathetes "[The Father] sent the Word that he might be manifested to the world . . . This is he who was from the beginning, who appeared as if new, and was found old . . . This is he who, being from everlasting, is today called the Son" (Letter to Diognetus 11).

170 AD Tatian the Syrian "We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21).

177 AD Athenagoras "The Son of God is the Word of the Father in thought and actuality. By him and through him all things were made, the Father and the Son being one. Since the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son by the unity and power of the Spirit, the Mind and Word of the Father is the Son of God. And if, in your exceedingly great wisdom, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by `the Son,' I will tell you briefly: He is the first- begotten of the Father, not as having been produced, for from the beginning God had the Word in himself, God being eternal mind and eternally rational, but as coming forth to be the model and energizing force of all material things" (Plea for the Christians 10:2-4).

dan ramai lagi...

Bagaimana kesaksian daripada orang bukan Kristian? Pliny sekitar 113 AD menulis berkenaan kepercayaan orang kristian.

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition ( Pliny the Younger, Letters 10.96-97)

cmf_shalom

Legenda Persidangan Nicea juga menyebut bahawa keempat-empat Injil Skrg dipilih melalui undian. Mana-mana injil yang tidak mengtuhankan Yesus dibakar etc etc etc.

Sejarah Kristian mencatatkan, sebelum Nicea dan sejak dari zaman Para Rasul, org Kristian hanya mengiktiraf empat buah Injil sahaja iaitu Matius, Mark, Lukas dan John. Menurut Ireneus

Menurut Irenaeus :

"It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the 'pillar and ground' of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men a fresh. From which fact, it is evident that the Word, the Artificer of all, He that sitteth upon the cherubim, and contains all things, He who was manifested to men, has given us the Gospel under four aspects, but bound together by one Spirit."
Against Heresies 3.11.8 (Ante-NiceneFathers)

juga,

"Matthew published his Gospel among the Hebrews in their own language, while Peter and Paul were preaching and founding the church in Rome. After their departure Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, also transmitted to us in writing those things which Peter had preached; and Luke, the attendant of Paul,recorded in a book the Gospel which Paul had declared. Afterwards John,the disciple of the Lord, who also reclined on his bosom, published his Gospel,while staying at Ephesus in Asia."

Empat buah dokumen ini ditulis oleh mereka yang rapat atau dalam ertikata lain Para Rasul. Mereka inilah yang sentiasa mengikuti Yesus sehinggalah Yesus kembali ke dalam kemulianNYA.

Injil Matius ditulis oleh Rasul Matius sendiri

Injil Markus ditulis oleh Markus atas arahan dan seliaan Rasul Petrus

Injil Lukas ditulis oleh Lukas atas penyeliaan Rasul Paulus yang juga mentee kepada Rasul Petrus dan rasul-rasul lain

Injil Yohanes ditulis oleh Rasul Yohanes sendiri

Jadi kita ada dua Injil yang ditulis secara lansung oleh rasul (Injil Matius dan InjilYohanes) dan dua buah lagi injil yang ditulis atas arahan dan seliaan rasul (Injil Markus dan Injil Lukas).

Keempat-empat Injil tersebut ditulis sebelum 100AD, iaitu pada zaman Para Rasul dan umat Kristian generasi pertama masih hidup.

Rasul Yohanes merupakan rasul yang terakhir yang meninggal sekitar 90AD di pulau Patmos.

Bagaimana pula dengan injil-injil lain?