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How can you be taking a break after rendering your Allah as non omnipotent? |
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Post Last Edit by sky_ephemeris at 5-2-2011 03:01
in other words jesus is no god afterall a medium (spiritusantu) is connecting man jesus to almighty god right? this mediumdont change man jesus to almighty god himself right? mark you man is made of clay. hence when trinity and twoness wanna insist jesus isgod, that gonna mean almighty god is made of clay. there you are.
I'm not talking on whether Jesus Christ is the God or a man god here. I'm talking about he is divine due to his relation and closeness to God the Father and it is about his nature not about when he is a god or not.
Concerning man was made of clay, you are absolutely right. But how about man's spirit? From where does it came from? In the Nicene Creed, it was stated that Jesus (it talks about his spirit blowed to nossa madre Santa Maria) was begotten (sparked) from God, not created. What is your stand about this? Jesus spirit is created by God or begotten (sparked) out from God?
That is why when Muslims said about biological stuffs, I personally feel that it is lame like we never learn about biological matters in school or simply they judge us like we know nothing about our own theology simply following what had been mentioned as herd mentality. I don't want to judge other Catholics nor Trinitarian Christians, but me definitely not that kind of person  I nearly became a Muslim due to my understanding of our Nicean theology, it's not because I want to marry my ex-bf, my dear Unitarian Christian brother/sister. A sincere person never insult his/her previous faith and when I heard many ex-Christians talking about lies in Christianity and sometimes to the extend of exaggerating 
a union of divinity and humanity in jesus gonna imply sometimes he's man and sometimes he's almighty god himself. andalmighty god himself equally gonna be man with limitations and some other timesfully himself with his divine power and all. sounds like jekyl andhyde right?
No, not at all for me. It's not about sometimes he is a man or sometimes he is a god. It is about when divinity dwells in him and when he is a human being. His spirit is divine but his physical body is not. You want to know my stand about Jesus physical body? His physical body is the Salvator, no God but his spirit is divine and his physical body is a holy man. His spirit is the Word of the Father sent through Spiritu Santu to Mary the Virgin
indeed i'm unitarian for me believe in oneness ofgod. me dont believe jesus is god, he's simply a man of untaintedcharacter. mr DEBMEY time and again described his trinity god being3 gods in 1 god. hence since you're binitarian, that's gonna meanyou believe in 2 gods in 1 god. no way you can say you believe inONE GOD when you also consider jesus being divine. the dictionarysays DIVINE means having the nature of diety and DIETY often religiouslyreferred as god. so do you truly believe jesus is god or are youmerely following the crowd, you know the herd mentality?
I don't have to separate myself from the Catholic, Orthodox, and Apostolic Church community just to imply that I have the faith on the only God the Father. I don't believe in two God but only One God or Allah or whatever people may call Him. The way that I'm talking about Jesus is the way of the Apostolic Church way of talking. Hence, If Jesus was not divine, he would never receive revelation from God through the Spiritu Santu. He will not be a perfect man, maksum (free from sin and faultiness of lay men), and never performing mukjizat (miracles). It's not about mentality, all of these things are about terminologies that being debated in the past and not all people could understand it clearly since they are terminological.
The term divine does not always means that a person has to be a god. And it depends if you perceive it in adjective mode of word. Divine could mean a person who knows something like foretelling something which lay men could not see or metaphysical things, revealed and inspired if it is in transitive verb. If it is in intransitive verb mode, it would be a person who makes a guess and of course Jesus did not make a guess by himself but through the intervention of Divine power. Divine could also means perfect in contrast to lay men who are not perfect.
In Aramaic, a person like Jesus is called as nevi which is the term used by Muslims who keep accusing us since they do not know that the term nevi (sing.) or inviyya (plural) came from Aramaic. When it is translated into English, it is prophet. What does prophet means in other word? A prophet is a person who claim himself as having the contact with or supernatural beings or divinity, right?
If you want me to talk like a Muslim, it would be Jesus is the prophet and the messenger from God, where His spirit was sent through the Spiritu Santu to nossa madre Santa Maria in Anunciation. But still the terms that I use to refer to Jesus doesn't really reflect that I am a polytheist or worshiping a human-being, the term twoness might reflect me as a person who believes in Jesus as a person revealed by God the Father and his acts of performing miracles.
But as to say, I don't have to split myself from the communion of Catholic, Orthodox, Holy, and Apostolic Church to believe in One God the Father as a sole One, being worshiped in our prayers because I always use the word Christ (the Messiah) and not Theo (God) when referring to Jesus even when in our massal is written with Theo. And as much as I saw when being a Muslim, I have to insult my fellow Christian brothers and sisters and also insulting Jesus Christ as my Salvator. I choose to remain a humble Christian who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ the son of God.
that's much ado over nuthin. jesus is a jewright? jews dont believe yahweh is 3 gods or 2 gods in 1 godright? hence it's best if trinitarians and binitarians were to ceasebelieving in 3 gods or 2 gods in 1 god thing and abide by almighty god Yahwehbeing ONE AND ONLY ONE.
Yes, he is a Jew. Jew don't really call the God as Yahweh because they have the law which prohibits them from uttering that word. They usually use the word ha-Shem or Sheme in imperial Aramaic which means the Name. Even the word Elohim usually being written as Elokim in worldly speaking to avoid referring to Him in vanity. If you want to return to Judaism, you also have to be subjugated under the teachings and laws interpreted by Rabbais of Judaism.
The term diophysitism does not imply myself as worshiping Jesus the Christ. I don't believe in two gods nor three gods. I believe in Trinity as a formula in explaining the relationship of the Father, His son, and His spirit. You may call me whatever kind of Christians but I have the same faith as early Christians
methinks you gotta stick to one belief - jesus is god(deceptive belief i must say) or jesus is no god (unitary christians, jews andmuslim belief). no beat the bushes.
Why do we have to be ashamed of ourselves in front of Muslims who know nothing about theological arguments in our early churches instead of they too are not clear about what their scripture is telling them about? |
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This Yahweh stuff sounds like Jehovah Witness no? Are you from Jehovah Witness Christian organization, Sonny? Tetragrammaton Yod He Vau He? If yes, then I can still categorize you as a Protestant |
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Reply 22# sonny~~
then the question come back to the holy book of yours.
was it mentioned that there will be the last prophet of god in the bible??? |
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Should we also check them in Vedas, Zoroastrian book and Tripitaka? |
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I'm not talking on whether Jesus Christ is the God or a man god here. I'm talking about he is divine due to his relation and closeness to God the Father and it is about his nature not about when he is a god or not.
methinks you gotta make a stand whether jesus is god or man.
lemme relate to you what has happened in another forum - a forummer came up with an issue/a question - IS JESUS GOD? subsequently in his reply, a trinitarian declared JESUS = GOD and proceeded giving tons of quotations to prove he's right. on the other hand a unitarian insisted he's no god and he also digged up tons of quotations to dispute the trinitarian. there you are.
make up your mind dude.
It's not about sometimes he is a man or sometimes he is a god. It is about when divinity dwells in him and when he is a human being.
is jesus god or isnt he?
I don't believe in two God but only One God or Allah or whatever people may call Him.
mr DEBMEY, a trinitarian believes in 3 gods in 1 god and one of the gods is jesus. mr TRUTH, a binitarian believes in 2 gods in 1 god and one of them is jesus. hence if you believe in one god that's gonna mean you're unitarian but you arent. you sound like fence sitter - neither here nor there.
The term diophysitism does not imply myself as worshiping Jesus the Christ. I don't believe in two gods nor three gods. I believe in Trinity as a formula in explaining the relationship of the Father, His son, and His spirit. You may call me whatever kind of Christians but I have the same faith as early Christians.
if you believe what early christians believed in then you're ONE GOD believer. when a trinitarian said JESUS = GOD, that's gonna mean JUST THAT whereas you're treating trinity as a formula. perhaps you can elaborate on that.
Why do we have to be ashamed of ourselves in front of Muslims who know nothing about theological arguments in our early churches instead of they too are not clear about what their scripture is telling them about?
sky_ephemeris Post at 5-2-2011 02:35 
we're equally in the same boat otherwise we wouldnt have trinity, twoness and unitary. |
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Reply 44# sky_ephemeris
me no jehovah witness, me unitarian. no 2 way about that. |
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Post Last Edit by sonny~~ at 5-2-2011 17:56
then the question come back to the holy book of yours.
was it mentioned that there will be the last prophet of god in the bible???
pendakwa Post at 5-2-2011 16:04
none. i know muslims believe the issue of last prophet being muhammad is mentioned in the bible but i'm not convinced. here's part of the discussion on the issue from ANSWERBAG site.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel".
1. MUHAMMAD (PBUH) PROPHESISED IN THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY:
Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.
If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
i) Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
ii) Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
iii) Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh). |
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Reply 49# sonny~~
where is the rest of the part?? |
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My stand is that a person who gives prophecy to lay men is a person who practice divinity, influenced by divinity.
Even when you check back the teachings in Kabbalah mysticism about roach (spirit and spiritual), you will find the same thing.
Hence for me, Jesus is not a god nor the same as the Father in term of his physical frame although I might talk with the same language used by normal Roman Catholics when talking with them in the Church or related to religious speaking.
The argument about we worship physical Jesus by Muslim does not really reflect us nor our Creed. That is their assumption according to their Sunni cleric panels who takes care about the Creed of their lay person. I can understand well what has been mentioned in Surah al-Ikhlas which they always brought forth to us
Jesus tongue speaking the words of the Divine power. Even if I say that he is a prophet, that does not change anything in me as a person in Catholic, Orthodox, and Apostolic Church community.
You're treating trinity as a formula. perhaps you can elaborate on that.
Maybe you should return back to early churches theology and having some glance on what are their arguments in Jesus natures including about the Myaphisitism, Diophysitism, Monophysitism, and etc. In Diophysitism itself, there were two kind of it. Which were the Nestorianism and Chalcedonism.
Those arguments are not about whether Jesus is equal to God or not as what has been understood by people today. The understanding of people from the past about the term divine itself is not as what has been understood by people today where it is only clunged to god.
We are from Saint Thomas Church (Persian Church) community which has been converted to Latin Rites by Portuguese anyway. But we still have our thelogy in co-existence within the rites that we are practicing now because we have no church community of our own |
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Reply 52# sonny~~
and you still refuse to accept those similarities and truth/
what is it that makes you rejecting Islam?? |
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How can you be taking a break after rendering your Allah as non omnipotent?
DavidW Post at 4-2-2011 19:32
let's take a break
Donkey, Donkey,
Old and Grey,
Open your mouth
And gently bray
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You taking a break after rendering Allah impotent? |
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My stand is that a person who gives prophecy to lay men is a person who practice divinity, influ ...
Hence for me, Jesus is not a god nor the same as the Father in term of his physical frame . . . .
how you talk. obviously god the father dont have penis (excuse me o MODERATOR, guys) buttt when trinitarians and binitarians say jesus = god that's gonna mean they believe god the father gonna have what jesus had when he's on earth.
in simpler term 2 = 2, it's never ever ever ever gonna be 2 = 3 or 4 etc. likewise when jesus = god, you can expect god the father gonna have everything that a man have - lust, hunger, fear etc. see? trinitarians and binitarians wanna limit god's power. that's tantamount to ridiculing almighty god and that's blasphemy.
The understanding of people from the past about the term divine itself is not as what has been understood by people today where it is only clunged to god.
sky_ephemeris Post at 5-2-2011 18:01
there you go. past christians didnt say jesus = god right? hence why should trinitarians and binitarians wanna twist this belief into jesus = god? WHY? FALSE BELIEF GONNA ZOOOM MAN INTO DEEPEST PIT OF HELL.  |
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and you still refuse to accept those similarities and truth/
what is it that m ...
pendakwa Post at 5-2-2011 18:08
o i accept islam alright as much as i accept unitary christianity and judaism coz they all believe in ONE AND ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY GOD. trinity and twoness christianity are goner.
whether i wanna convert to islam is another story. |
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You taking a break after rendering Allah impotent?
DavidW Post at 7-2-2011 01:15
so indeed you're mr DEBMEY in mr DAVID nick. slowly and surely you're showing your heckling self - repetitive one line statement for no HARDreason. you've yet to expose your hyena laughter HAHAHAHAHAHA . . .
anyhow lets take a break
Three blind mice, three blind mice,
See how they run, see how they run!
They all ran after the farmer's wife,
Who cut off their tails with a carving knife;
Did ever you see such a thing in your life,
As three blind mice? |
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question - IS JESUS GOD? - is abound in forums that i've visited. one of the discussions goes like this -
UNITARIAN - Are the words in the Epistles equal to the words of Jesus? Is Paul equal to Jesus or God (since you believe in a trinity)? Who do you listen to when Paul contradicts Jesus?
TRINITARIAN - The Epistles are divinly inspired. The Epistels do not contradict scripture. No Paul is not equal to Jesus. Nore are any of the Apostels. Jesus=God.
the keyword is - JESUS = GOD.
if jesus = god why did he cry out MY LORD MY LORD WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME during crucifixion? god the son = god the father = god the holy spirit crying out to himself. right?
mr DEBMEY cum mr DAVID, be brave now and give HARDexplanation for the puzzle |
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Post time 4-2-2011 06:01 PM
