RM6 bilion untuk kapal peronda baru TLDM - sebijik kapal 1 Billion...?

anya8797

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shamsadis Post at 11-2-2011 08:57

    nape sham tegelak..... betul anya takde senjata nih... pecaya lah....

foranz

Reply 579# dan509


    relevan camana.....citer sikit,,,

anya8797

betul, benda tu beli dalam tahun 90an.....tapi aku menyampaikan cerita sebenar, Tun M mema ...
lkick2113 Post at 11-2-2011 17:40

     mungkin derang tak tahu lkick...at the time we bought hornet, package termasuk missile nya skali macam sidewinder, sparrow, maverick dan harpoon, in which all could be launched...... but when we requested amraam ( advance medium range air to air missile) tu yang kita perlu reprogram sistem hornet tersebut ( perlukan source code)....even so, it still rely heavily on whether US lets us or not....dan dlm kes nih US taknak jual kat mesia atas alasan taknak arm race kat south east asia......

anya8797

Reply  Magika
tu le psl, ahben x sangke pocik kaki lepak kat bod borak....
benkiut Post at 11-2-2011 17:53

    hi ah ben..... offtapic... anya terbaca posting bunuh diri pakcik kat borak..... 'kesian jujujerry'..... anya tak tahan nak tegelak....

lkick2113

mungkin derang tak tahu lkick...at the time we bought hornet, package termasuk missile ny ...
anya8797 Post at 12-2-2011 13:55

    masalahnya anya...ramai jahiloon2 fefeeling armchair general ni suka2 bagi komen tanpa check fakta sebenar, lain la I ni dah banyak join forum2 defense, baik local mahupun international

cmf_inquisitor

Experts rubbish MP’s allegations over ‘high cost’ of ships

KUALA LUMPUR: Defence analysts have rubbished allegations by an opposition MP that the Government’s move to procure six Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) costing RM6bil, costs 870% more than what other countries paid for similar ships.

Defence and security analyst Dzirhan Mahadzir said the comparison made by DAP’s Petaling Jaya Utara MP Tony Pua in a local news portal was based on different ships.

“The government amount is within a reasonable estimate of how much it will cost with the capabilities of the SGPV-LCS (Second Generation Patrol Vessel-Littoral Combat Ships),” he said yesterday when asked to comment on Pua’s statement on the website.
Sophisticated machine: A concept model of an SGPV displayed by Boustead at Lima 2009. Defence analysts say the high cost in procuring the six ships was rational. — Photo courtesy of Dzirhan Mahadzir

Sharing a similar view, Asian Defence Journal editor M. Ghazemy Mahmud said the high cost in procuring the six LCS was rational, taking into consideration the capability and sophistication of the ships.

“Although the vessels were based on the corvette design, they are known as LCS and the equipment is far more sophisticated, capable than and superior to the earlier six Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs), hence the higher cost,” he said.

Ghazemy said due to the complicated and complex nature of building the naval ship, it was easy to be confused over the actual cost and type of naval ships.

“The figure (RM6bil) is standard ballpark figure in the naval ship building industry. Only those in the industry can understand the complex nature of naval ship-building,” he said.

He said the procurement was part of an overall programme planned more than a decade ago where the Royal Malaysian Navy (RMN) wanted to built 27 corvette-type warships to replace the British-made patrol vessels bought in the 1960s and 1970s.

On the issue of the purchase of the vessels not being made through competitive bidding compared to other developed countries, Dzirhan said Pua had got the facts wrong.

Dzirhan, a correspondent for Jane’s Defence Weekly, said RMN chief Tan Sri Abdul Aziz Jaafar had earlier said the ships would be built by the Boustead Naval Shipyard, in collaboration with one of the six overseas shipyards which was shortlisted.

“The RMN requested for quotations and proposals solicited from foreign companies at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aero­space Exhibition in 2009.

“In fact, this fact had been reported several times since then, and the Government was looking at the various foreign proposals.

“Also, similar examinations of quotations and proposals were being conducted on the ships’ weapon systems, radar, electronic equipment and sensors, all of which would be sourced from various foreign suppliers,” he added.

He said however, all these were conducted behind closed-doors, “not just because the Government wants it so, but also because the companies do not want disclosure of their proposals and offer prices to be available to their competitors.”

Dzirhan said the experience in building the ships and the transfer of technology and expertise would allow the local defence industry to develop capabilities to meet the Government’s goal of self-sufficiency in defence. — Bernama

Kalau kita x tau psl sesuatu perkara, kita tanya org yg expert dlm bidang yg kita x tau tu. same goes with everything...
in this case, mintak la puak2 pembangkang cari analyst or expert yang disagree dgn price tag 6 bil ni...
bknnya cr org yg pungpang2 source code itu ini tp simple fact psl F16 pn ble x tau

anya8797

masalahnya anya...ramai jahiloon2 fefeeling armchair general ni suka2 bagi komen tanpa che ...
lkick2113 Post at 12-2-2011 14:01

    armchair general....

ella.

nape tak pelbagaikan jenama? at least amik 2 brand punye kapal la.. buleh compare..

akak harap akan ade auditor yg akan monitor procurement punye process tuh.. kite dah ade pengalaman sebelum nih so patut jadikan pengajaran sket.. rakyat bukan kudukut tp nak kan yg terbaik untuk negara dan tldm khususnye..

dan509

Perang Falkland berlaku antara Britain & Argentina.  Dalam perang tersebut, Argentina telah menyerang dan menawan kepulauan Falkland yang berada lebih kurang 200km dari perairan Argentina & menggelarnya kepulauan Malvinas.  Di peringkat awal peperangan tersebut, beberapa kapal Royal Navy telah ditenggelamkan oleh Tentera Udara Argentina menggunakan peluru berpandu anti-kapal buatan Perancis.  Akibat kehilangan ramai anggota, RN melalui Kerajaan Britain telah meminta bantuan Perancis yang akhirnya bersetuju untuk mendedahkan kelemahan peluru berpandu anti-kapal yang digunakan oleh Argentina.  Akibatnya, serangan terhadap kapal RN selepas pendedahan tersebut telah gagal...

ella.

Reply 589# dan509


    ape kelemahan antikapal tuh?

anya8797

Perang Falkland berlaku antara Britain & Argentina.  Dalam perang tersebut, Argentina telah menyeran ...
dan509 Post at 12-2-2011 19:08

    all the more reason kenapa ada perkara yang perlu dirahsiakan terutama sekali bahagian persenjataan dan counter measure.... dan sebab tu kalau kita buat sendiri...kita akan tahu strength kapal kita berbanding orang luar.....

dan509

Reply 590# ella.


    Kelemahan anti-kapal ni dari segi teknikal.  Setiap senjata yang dibuat berdasarkan elektronik ni memiliki counter-measurenya masing2.  Sebagai contoh, peluru berpandu jenis heat-seaking boleh ditipu dengan flare counter-measure (yang ni biasa bagi anti-pesawat je), manakala IR head missile boleh ditipu (or rather dibutakan) oleh smoke screen.  Radar boleh diganggu dengan radio jammer.  Semua ni jenis passive defense system.  
   Bagi memastikan sebuah kapal tersebut mempunyai high-level of invincibility, passive defense tak cukup, perlu ada active defense bagi memusnahkan peluru berpandu jenis remote control.  Active defense pulak cam CIWS Phalanx, sejenis variation gatling.  Sebenarnya, CIWS pun kira dapat cover seluruh kapal, tapi dalam full combat situation, tak mencukupi sebab jumlah peluru yang digunakan CIWS teramat tinggi dan mungkin tidak mencukupi dalam pertempuran sengit (or rather, tidak sempat membuat pengisian semula).

cmf_inquisitor

Reply  ella.


    Kelemahan anti-kapal ni dari segi teknikal.  Setiap senjata yang dibuat berda ...
dan509 Post at 12-2-2011 22:42

puak2 fakatan yg armchair general, keyboard warrior bknnya tau suma ni. bila jadi menteri pertahanan esok, dia suh beli tongkang je lg murah katanya...

lepat99

psl source code tu bole tgk pada isu source code hornet raaf la..depa pun ade isu ni smpai kene hntr spy depa ke sn utk dptkn br bole activekn semua arm tnp perlu lalui sekatan..sbb tu depa bole pkai asraam dan x pkai sidewinder utk f/a-18 depa..

rabun_it

Reply  crossfire

tu lah cross..
tapi kang kalau derang tak tunjuk yg derang tau nanti
nampak  ...
d'zeck Post at 11-2-2011 16:13

wahh...sembang macam perang kat dalam computer game je..

rabun_it

Pertahannan negara pon nak dipolitikkan.. dasar pakatan kambing betollah.. sial...
sinzu82 Post at 11-2-2011 17:42

guna duit ko semua ke beli kapal tu?

lkick2113

nape tak pelbagaikan jenama? at least amik 2 brand punye kapal la.. buleh compare..

akak harap ...
ella. Post at 12-2-2011 18:38

    1st time aku baca komen cipan yang bernas...

gicks79

I only wanted to clarify, says Pua

KUALA LUMPUR: DAP national publicity secretary Tony Pua will not file a report to the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) over the Defence Ministry抯 purchase of six offshore patrol vessels (OPVs).

This was because his article on the issue that was posted in his blog recently only wanted the minister, Datuk Seri Ahmad Zahid Hamidi, to justify the RM6bil purchase, he said.

揗y statement did not accuse the ministry over the purchase but requested the ministry to justify its purchase by giving detailed specifications on the type of OPVs which were being acquired,

dan509

Reply 588# ella.


Kurang setuju dengan penggunaan auditor dalam isu ini.  Sebab majoriti auditor (kepada rakan2 auditor, jangan marah) yang penting adalah kos.  Apabila masuk bab2 teknikal, terutamanya sekali bab2 procurement dan operational , susah sikit nak masuk.  Kecuali mereka dapatkan auditor yang punyai background dalam defense industry, yang kat Malaysia ni memang tak ramai.  

Auditor plak bahagi kepada macam2 jenis;
1.  external auditor,
2.  internal auditor,
3.  compliance auditor,
4.  investigative auditor,
5.  operational auditor.

Memasing mahir dalam bidang memasing je. Tapi kalau betul2 nak buat audit kat pembelian ni, kena dibuat compliance auditor.  Kalau semua document ok, memang gerenti takde problem boleh jumpa punya.  So, no point.

Sebelum anyone nak tembak kata auditor dapat jumpa kes enjin F5EII hilang, yang itu tak sama.  Tu inventory audit.  Antara paling senang nak dibuat.  Dan antara paling senang nak ditipu juga.  Tahukah anda bahawa semasa PDII, Tentera Udara Itali yang berada di sebelah Pakatan Axis menipu auditor dengan memindahkan pesawat penggempurnya dari satu pengkalan udara ke pengkalan lain dan dicatkan no siri lain semata2 untuk memberi gambaran bahawa Itali mempunyai bilangan pesawat penggempur yang tinggi?

My background adalah dalam audit & juga pada masa yang sama penyumbang kepada defense magazine tertentu.  Isu penyelewengan pembelian pertahanan memang sudah lama sebati dengan diri.  Camni lah I summarise.  

To read is easy,
to ask is even easier,
but to analyse, you need perseverance.

Tony Pua is an example tak buat proper analysis before shooting.  Tapi dia tak salah, sebab itu kesilapan biasa setiap manusia.  Kerana saya pun pernah buat silap camni.

OK.  Nanti bila ada masa, saya sambungkan pasal analisis ancaman terhadap Malaysia, yang dibuat separuh jalan sebab nak pergi stesyen bas hari tu.

ella.

Reply  ella.


Kurang setuju dengan penggunaan auditor dalam isu ini.  Sebab majoriti auditor (k ...
dan509 Post at 13-2-2011 18:30

    ohh ok, tq.. nanti jangan lupe sambung lagi taww..