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Originally posted by sparrow at 8-7-2006 04:15 PM
haha.. i don't buy sweet talks too, you know? Honeyed words don't buy me.. unless you are someone special.. 
didn't i'm special for u? ;) |
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Originally posted by sparrow at 8-7-2006 04:15 PM
haha.. i don't buy sweet talks too, you know? Honeyed words don't buy me.. unless you are someone special..
You asked me not to demand, so I talked softer...Im not buying you..What for?.I already have one..hehe.Oklah, need to go..but don't forget to answer my questions...don't act like Casejulia...Hehehe...Bye |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 8-7-2006 04:17 PM
You asked me not to demand, so I talked softer...Im not buying you..What for?.I already have one..hehe.Oklah, need to go..but don't forget to answer my questions...don't act like Casejulia...He ...
she's already log out i suppose... |
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This is no longer Matthew 5:20.. :)
[size=-1] it gonna be a long long post.
Originally posted by eastrun at 7-7-2006 09:38 PM
2a)Did Jesus confessed that he is the final messenger of God
Eastrun,
Firstly, is this a trick question? 
If I take your question word for word, the answer is NO. Cos Jesus is NOT a messenger of God |
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[quote]Originally posted by sparrow at 14-7-2006 09:55 PM
it gonna be a long long post.
Eastrun,
Firstly, is this a trick question?
If I take your question word for word, the answer is NO. Cos Jesus is NOT a messenger of God |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 15-7-2006 08:40 AM
Thank you for the explanations, but you clarified me to make another conclusions:
good.. make whatever conclusions you want to make.. just don't force your conclusions upon me..
well, i'm taking it as you do not need answers to 2(b) and (c) any more.. right?
yay.. no need to write! me feeling bit too lazy these days to do another write up..
Every prophet is with his umat forever..Moses teaching is forever with the Jews, Jesus with Christians and Muhammad with Muslims.
well.. a lil bit more to add on Christians here.. to Christians, Jesus more than just teachings.. to us, it's Jesus Himself whom is with us.. remember Holy Spirit?
peace.
[ Last edited by sparrow at 15-7-2006 11:51 AM ] |
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Originally posted by sparrow at 15-7-2006 11:25 AM
good.. make whatever conclusions you want to make.. just don't force your conclusions upon me..
well, i'm taking it as you do not need answers to 2(b) and (c) any more.. right?
yay.. no ...
I didn't say that...you have to answer them...I am not forcing you but your explanations are not strong enough to prove that..Sori la ye...:pray: |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 15-7-2006 02:24 PM
I didn't say that...you have to answer them...I am not forcing you but your explanations are not strong enough to prove that..Sori la ye...:pray:
hahahaa... have to? am i under obligation to answer ur q's?
u hv a funny way of phasing things sometimes...
btw, nope.. i'm not here to "convince" you or anyone - that's not the purpose why i'm here. i'm merely here to explain what I, as a Christian, believe in.. not to convince you to believe..
[ Last edited by sparrow at 15-7-2006 03:02 PM ] |
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Originally posted by sparrow at 15-7-2006 02:28 PM
hahahaa... have to? am i under obligation to answer ur q's?
u hv a funny way of phasing things sometimes...
Jangan la dolak dalih...ni yang tak best ni...just jawab...kalau tak tahu...cakap tak tahu...simple. |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 7-7-2006 09:38 PM
2b)Did Jesus asked you to worship him..
Firstly, why would Jesus need to ask people to worship Him?
People were already worshipping Him without Him asking |
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2c)Did he called himself God?.
Okay - 2(c) now. Here are a few instances where Jesus refers to Himself as God:
1) When satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness... Jesus told him:
"Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." - Matthew 4:7
Notice that satan didn't deny that Jesus is not God. Satan, though he is an enemy of God and an enemy of Jesus - but he does know that Jesus is God.
2) Another one: Remember earlier when casejulia explained what Jesus said the Pharisees?
The Pharisees are people who do not acknowledge that Jesus is God.. they do not even acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah.. and they are the people who accuse Jesus of blasphemy.. as they understand that Jesus is God...
See what Jesus said about the Pharisees:
Matthew 15:8
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The Pharisees have never honored Jesus (in His humanity) - much less worship Him. They are the ones who accuse Him of blasphemy and even stoned Jesus for it. They only speak of honoring and worshiping God.
Hence the me that Jesus said there.. Jesus was not referring to Him "human form" on earth, but His true nature - ie, God.
3) Jesus said that He existed before Abraham was born..
and He even used the exact words that God used, when He appeared to Moses in the burning bush .. the words " I AM".. as in "I AM THAT I AM"
John 8:56-58
56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Notice that while you may have other views - the Jews then, understood it as such.. if it means some other meaning than Jesus is God then they would not have stoned Him.
4) Jesus said that David called Him, Lord...
Matthew 22:41-44
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?"
"The son of David," they replied.
43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
44" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet." '
45 If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
[ Last edited by sparrow at 16-7-2006 11:53 AM ] |
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[quote]Originally posted by sparrow at 15-7-2006 02:36 PM
Firstly, why would Jesus need to ask people to worship Him?
People were already worshipping Him without Him asking |
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well...
Jesus did tell us to worship God.. right?
And Jesus has claimed and even demonstrated that He is God - so why shouldn't we be worshipping Him? He is God. When we worship God - we worship Jesus.. when we worship Jesus, we worship God.They are One and the same.. |
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Originally posted by sparrow at 16-7-2006 11:56 AM
well...
Jesus did tell us to worship God.. right?
And Jesus has claimed and even demonstrated that He is God - so why shouldn't we be worshipping Him? He is God. When we worship God - we worshi ...
He never said that he is God...never...He said "Worship my God and your God". If he is God, he won't say like that. It is Christians that think he is God, even though he never claimed that He is.
"They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help." (Surah Al-Maidah 5:72)
The connection of the verse above is in the Holy Bible:
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:"(Mark 12:29)
So, don't worship him, but worship his God, your God and my God.....Don't against the teaching of those prophets.
For people like you(Christian and Jew) got chance to repent:
"If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss." (Surah Al-Maidah 5:65):pray:
[ Last edited by eastrun at 16-7-2006 05:56 PM ] |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 16-7-2006 05:54 PM
For people like you(Christian and Jew) got chance to repent:
*shrugs*.. whatever you believe.. so be it..
but then.. LOL...you can't tell a Christian not to worship Christ.. and you can't tell a Christian to repent from worshipping Christ. (as far as i believe, i hv nothing to repent from, where this matter is concerned). Christians are very much convinced, and we just know He is God.. based on what is in the Bible, and also based on what we experience in our lives in Him... no matter what non-Christians say.
Also, remember what i said about the Holy Spirit? That the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts and lives when we become Christians? Well.. Christians just can't shake the Spirit off like that.. He is God... we can't just tell God to get lost.. you know what i mean? Furthermore, Jesus died for me..
No comment about Jews though.. i'm trying to look at it from your perspective,.. but i can't see why they would need to repent (from your perspective that is..) since they do not worship Jesus as Lord in Judaism. Why would Jews need to repent? :stp:
[ Last edited by sparrow at 16-7-2006 06:45 PM ] |
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Originally posted by sparrow at 16-7-2006 06:13 PM
*shrugs*.. whatever you believe.. so be it..
but then.. LOL...you can't tell a Christian not to worship Christ.. and you can't tell a Christian to repent from worshipping Christ. (as far ...
It is not about what I believe...but the conclusion were made using those evidences from the Bible and the Holy Quran..
For Christians, what you all have to repent is accept that Jesus is just a prophet not Lord, where as Jews, accept Allah is the only God and Jesus Christ is a prophet. |
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me This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by eastrun at 16-7-2006 06:55 PM
For Christians, what you all have to repent is accept that Jesus is just a prophet not Lord, where as Jews, accept Allah is the only God and Jesus Christ is a prophet.
isnt that like converting to islam...??? |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 16-7-2006 06:55 PM
It is not about what I believe...but the conclusion were made using those evidences from the Bible and the Holy Quran..
hm...i'm curious to know: what are your conclusions of the verses in my post # 71?
a) what is your conclusion from Jesus's words to Satan (1)
b) what is your conclusion for Jesus's me in (2)
c) what is your conclusion about Jesus claim that He existed before Abraham in (3)
d) what is your conclusion about King David callling Him Lord in (4)?
Anyway, here are the verses again for your reference:
1) When satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness... Jesus told him:
"Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." - Matthew 4:7
2) Another one: Remember earlier when casejulia explained what Jesus said the Pharisees?
The Pharisees are people who do not acknowledge that Jesus is God.. they do not even acknowledge that Jesus is the Messiah.. and they are the people who accuse Jesus of blasphemy.. as they understand that Jesus is God...
See what Jesus said about the Pharisees:
Matthew 15:8
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The Pharisees have never honored Jesus (in His humanity) - much less worship Him. They are the ones who accuse Him of blasphemy and even stoned Jesus for it. They only speak of honoring and worshiping God.
Hence the me that Jesus said there.. Jesus was not referring to Him "human form" on earth, but His true nature - ie, God.
3) Jesus said that He exists before Abraham was born..
and He even used the exact words that God used, when He appeared to Moses in the burning bush .. the words " I AM".. as in "I AM THAT I AM"
John 8:56-58
56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."
57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
Notice that while you may have other views - the Jews then, understood it as such.. if it means some other meaning than Jesus is God then they would not have stoned Him.
4) Jesus said that David called Him, Lord...
Matthew 22:41-44
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?"
"The son of David," they replied.
43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
44" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet." '
45 If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
[ Last edited by sparrow at 18-7-2006 06:48 PM ] |
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Originally posted by eastrun at 16-7-2006 06:55 PM
It is not about what I believe...but the conclusion were made using those evidences from the Bible and the Holy Quran..
For Christians, what you all have to repent is accept that Jesus is ...
well.. maybe.
Your conclusions are drawn intellectually.. based on conclusions you draw from the Bible and the Quran. My conclusions are drawn spiritually.. based on the Bible and the experience of the Holy Spirit who came into my life. (Remember the Comforter that Jesus said would come?)
My conclusion is this: if the Holy Spirit is true, that He had come into my life.. just as the Bible says.. so is Jesus dying on the cross for my sins true.. just as the Bible says.. and so is Jesus is the Lord - just as the Bible says...
Anyway, this aside.. i still like to hear what your conclusions are for the verses in the above post. |
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Post time 8-7-2006 04:16 PM
Author
