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Nick Perelman: DID GOD OR MAN GIVE YOU THE ISRAEL OF TODAY?
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Questions for Nick :
1. In what year was Zionism used as a tool to unify Jews?
2. In what year was the Balfour Declaration made?
3. What is the corelation between Zionism and the Balfour Declaration and how is it relevent to the birth of Zionist Israel?
4. What is the main objective of Zionism and its founder?
ARI FUZZMAN
[ Last edited by Fuzzman at 31-5-2006 02:57 PM ] |
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A teaser for Nick meant in aiding him answer my questions. Debmey is welcomed to say something on this matter too!
The link: http://www.mideastjournal.com/zionism.html
Excerpts from the link:
In an article published in the Washington Post of 3 October 1978, Rabbi Hirsch (of Jerusalem) is reported to have declared: 揟he 12th principle of our faith, I believe, is that the Messiah will gather the Jewish exiled who are dispersed throughout the nations of the world. Zionism is diametrically opposed to Judaism. Zionism wishes to define the Jewish people as a nationalistic entity. The Zionists say, in effect, 'Look here, God. We do not like exile. Take us back, and if you don't, we'll just roll up our sleeves and take ourselves back.' |
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Iman_6 This user has been deleted
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Latest new from Canada
CUPE Ontario supports campaign against Israel
Canadian Press
OTTAWA |
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1. In what year was Zionism used as a tool to unify Jews?
2. In what year was the Balfour Declaration made?
3. What is the corelation between Zionism and the Balfour Declaration and how is it relevent to the birth of Zionist Israel?
4. What is the main objective of Zionism and its founder?
1. Zionism is a movement for creation of Jewish state and not a tool.
2. In 1917.
3. Balfur promised to create Jewish National Home Zionism stroived to create a Jewish State.
4. See #1. |
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KENNKID This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 1-6-2006 01:00 AM
1. Zionism is a movement for creation of Jewish state and not a tool.
2. In 1917.
3. Balfur promised to create Jewish National Home Zionism stroived to create a Jewish State.
4. See #1.
Over the years, the Israelis have adopted a bizarre view of their own Zionist historical narrative. They have somehow decided that their militant and nationalistic colonial venture is actually a post-Shoah "peace-seeking movement".
This manipulative notion was found to be very effective in generating Western support in the early days of Israel, probably as a result of feelings of guilt among Western people.
Since the Lebanese war in 1982 the opinion in the West has shifted. More and more people acknowledge that it is the Palestinians who are actually "Hitler's last victims". While the Western world is slowly but surely waking up to the ongoing inhuman Israeli crimes, Israelis still believe in their fabricated self-image.
Israelis are convinced that the Jewish state was created after the Holocaust to secure a safe haven for Jews in case of repeated disaster. This misconception is the direct consequence of the misreading of crucial historical events. Israel is the fruit of Zionism and the Zionist ideology was well established even before Hitler was born.
Moreover, there is good reason to believe that Hitler developed some of his anti-Semitic (anti Jewish to be exact) arguments after reading early Zionist texts. From Ber Borochov he could learn how socially abnormal the Jews were ("The socio-economic structure of the Jewish people differs radically from that of other nations. Ours is an anomalous, abnormal structure", Ber Borochov, 1897, published in Moshe Cohen (ed.), Nationalism and the Class Struggle: A Marxian Approach to the Jewish Problem, 1937). From Jabotinsky he could learn how crucial blood purity was.
The quotes cited above suggest that Zionism and Nazism are very similar in spirit (both are nationalistic movements inspired by concepts of racial purity). One thing, however, is clear: Zionism pre-dates Nazism.
If, however, we decide to go along with the Israeli self-deception which regards Israel as the outcome of the Holocaust, we should address the fact that Zionists have always been more than enthusiastic about anti-Semitism (to them only Jews are Semitic). In Zionist eyes it is anti-Semitism that will push Jews to their "homeland". Accordingly, the Zionists realized from the very beginning that Nazi Germany presented a great opportunity for Zionism. While before the war Zionist organizations collaborated with the Nazis transferring German Jewish wealth to Palestine, during the war, when the scale of the disaster had already been revealed, very little was done by Zionists around the world to help their brothers and sisters in Europe.
One particular incident should be mentioned here. Towards the end of World War II Adolf Eichmann (on behalf of Heinrich Himmler) offered Rezso Kasztner, a Zionist Hungarian leader, the freedom of up to one million Jews in return for 10,000 trucks. Surprisingly enough, this offer was ignored by the Zionist organizations that had realized by then that the annihilation of European Jewry would help generate enough support among the nations for the future establishment of the Jewish state. Apparently, the Nazi offer was reduced to a single train and just 600 devoted Zionist Hungarian Jews. Clearly, the Zionists were interested in saving neither assimilated nor Orthodox Jews.
Sadly enough, we must admit that, at least tactically, the Zionists were proved right: the liquidation of European Jewry indeed generated great support for the Zionist cause that led eventually to the establishment of Israel. Nonetheless, if we do adopt this line of thinking, we must regard the Zionist leaders as partly responsible for the liquidation of European Jewry.
[ Last edited by KENNKID at 1-6-2006 10:02 AM ] |
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Arabs in Israel live much better than Malaysians not talking about Syrians or Egyptians. Stop copy pasting nonsense. |
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Muslims love lies. Thats what I found out since I was a kid. Even the 'moderates' are like that. |
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KENNKID This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 1-6-2006 02:50 PM
Arabs in Israel live much better than Malaysians not talking about Syrians or Egyptians. Stop copy pasting nonsense.
Israel destroys Palestinian homes as punishment: report
CBC News
JERUSALEM - A New York-based human rights group says Israel has exaggerated terrorist threats and is systematically destroying Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip.
A woman sits with her belongings in
the rubble on the edge of Rafah. (AP photo)
Human Rights Watch says Israel has targeted homes indiscriminately and has failed to meet its obligations as an occupying power.
Israel insists the demolitions are necessary to expose weapons-smuggling tunnels and to create a protective buffer between Israel and Egypt.
The report, "Razing Rafah," examines the destruction wrought by Israel's efforts to create a buffer zone.
The report says the Israeli military assumes "that every Palestinian is a potential suicide bomber and every home a potential base for attack."
Israeli officials say as many as 90 weapons-smuggling tunnels have been found.
Kenneth Roth, the executive director of Human Rights Watch, says Israel has exaggerated that number and that the destruction of Palestinian homes is gratuitous.
"It is wrong, even in a democracy, to use superfluous military force against civilians in order to try to influence the military, I mean, that is Israel's first line of argument for why suicide bombing is wrong. It is utterly wrong to attack civilians or their property for military objectives," said Roth at a news conference.
The group, based in New York, says 16,000 people have been made homeless in southern Gaza over the past four years, regardless of whether their homes posed a genuine military threat.
Roth acknowledged Israel had a right to try to block the tunnels to protect its soldiers, but that didn't extend to an absolute military necessity to destroy homes.
" art of the rationale here seems to be to punish civilians for the conduct of militants. The people whose homes are destroyed are, for the most part, just ordinary civilians."
Roth suggests Israel employ other methods, such as underground sensors and radar, to locate tunnels.
Also on Monday, Peter Hansen, the commissioner general of the UN Relief and Works Agency toured parts of the Gaza Strip to see the damage caused by the Israeli incursion.
"Most of what we have seen here ... over the past two weeks is in gross violation of international humanitarian law and we will go on protesting these measures which are not proportionate, which are not relevant to the targets that Israel has chosen to try to hit," said Hansen.
The Israeli army was unavailable to comment on the report and the Foreign Ministry has said it rejects the allegations.
 :http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/na ... aReport_041018.html |
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Originally posted by Debmey at 1-6-2006 03:31 PM
Muslims love lies. Thats what I found out since I was a kid. Even the 'moderates' are like that.
So do Moslems like The Da Vinci Code novel and subsequent movie? As far as I know the Christians are getting worked up over the idea that the lies in the movie were a Jewish conspiracy to put to shame Jesus. That's right Debbo.. it's them Jouzzz who made the movie? How do we know for sure? Why the movie ended with a Zionist Star..didn't you know?
ARI FUZZMAN |
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Originally posted by Nick_Perelman at 1-6-2006 01:00 AM
[quote]QUOTE:
1. In what year was Zionism used as a tool to unify Jews?
2. In what year was the Balfour Declaration made?
3. What is the corelation between Zionism and the Balfour Declaration and how is it relevent to the birth of Zionist Israel?
4. What is the main objective of Zionism and its founder?
1. Zionism is a movement for creation of Jewish state and not a tool.
2. In 1917.
3. Balfur promised to create Jewish National Home Zionism stroived to create a Jewish State.
4. See #1. [/quote]
Thank-you green frog for your post.
Topic One : Zionism a movement for the creation of a Jewish state.
In what year was the movement realised? Why do Jews back then need a movement to realise a Jewish State?
Topic Two: Balfour Declaration was made in 1917.
Which was initiated first? Zionism or Balfour?
Topic Three: Balfour was for Jewish National home and Zionism to create a Jewish State.
When the legal instrument of the BD was made, was it pro-Zionism or did Zionism take advantage of the support for a landed ideological right to statehood?
Topic Four: The main objectives of Herzl, the founder of Zonism.
Herzl was a Agnostic and did not consider himself a Jew by the laws of the Torah. If by old law, Herzl would be deemed a heretic for not being a practising Jew. So why do Jews put whole faith in a heretic? Herzl had no faith but he had a dream for a land of Zion in either Argentina and Uganda before it was agreed unanimously that the Jewish State should be in Palestine. Now wouldn't all this run in opposits of the will of YHWH?
I would like to hear your take on the above. Best wishes.
ARI FUZZMAN |
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1. Most nationalist movements appeared in the end of 19th begining of 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism
By the way, Arab nationalism appeared about 40 years after Zionism.
2. BD was nade because Brits needed Jews. They also gave similar promises to Arabs, Armenians, Greeks.
3. BD was in preambula of League of Nations Mandate of Palestine. However Brits broke their promises after a while. For example tyhey did not allow Jews to enter after 1939. They did not allow Jews to buy land and so on.
4. There is no such thing as heretic in Judaism. Herzels religiousity if between God and him. And Jews did not follow him blindly. Not at all. |
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Iman_6 This user has been deleted
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bob This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Iman_6 at 10-6-2006 12:14 PM
Ive been waiting for Fuzzman to continue this thread, he's probably too caught up with his matters.
I hope you dont mind me sharing this great link ,
" How Israel is created "
http:/ ...
THANK YOUUUUUU!!!! |
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bob This user has been deleted
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good too but nick, its from a jewish site. can we have a more independent and academic like the one provided by iman? at the moment the site provided by iman showed indifference supported by evidence whereas your aish site is an essay only. |
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Before I begin, here's my thanks going out to Iman for the great link and also to Nick for his counter Jewish link.
I have piece-mealed this highlight from Nick's link and would like to hear his understanding of it. So please do the needful and let me understand what you make of it. Thanks Nick.
The passage in question :-
Under a League of Nations mandate explicitly meant to pave the way for the creation of a Jewish national home, the British established the notion of an independent Palestine for the first time and delineated its boundaries. In 1947, confronted with a determined Jewish struggle for independence, Britain returned the mandate to the League's successor, the United Nations, which in turn decided on November 29, 1947, to partition mandatory Palestine into two states: one Jewish, the other Arab.
Not forgetting Nick, please give me a religious perspective and not a political analysis. Cheers to all.
ARI FUZZMAN |
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Reply #117 Fuzzman's post
Nick perelman is not a jewish, nor he is from Israel.
His trying to tell lies, by "teaching" me fake Hebrew. Luckily, having Jewish friend has never been such comfortable.
And second, he doesnt even know about Jerusalem - he claimed that Jerusalem is a town!
Thirdly, he doesnt know about Jewish shrine - the Ko-tel!
er... shit, a fake! |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 14-6-2006 11:13 PM
Nick perelman is not a jewish, nor he is from Israel.
His trying to tell lies, by "teaching" me fake Hebrew. Luckily, having Jewish friend has never been such comfortable.
And secon ...
Thats right,that frog is a fraud and let's entertain him a bit longer,i'm sure it will be exposed. |
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Well Nick I'm inclined to lean with Greekgod and wira_melayu because I don't see you providing any responses to mine or greekgod's allegations.
ARI FUZZMAN |
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Author
Post time 31-5-2006 04:27 PM
