Isu Agama Syiah serta persoalan Akidah dan Feqah ... [split topik]

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 12:13 PM

Sebelum ana jawab soalan ente, elokalah ente jawab soalan ana dulu..

biar jelas pendirian masing2 sebelum berhujjah..

So, akhir sekali Ana inginkan kepastian yang nyata daripada pengikut syiah di sini,

"Adakah kamu masih menganggap bahawa mazhab syafie adalah "agama" syafie?"
A. Ya
B. Tidak

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 12:27 PM

Maaflah kerana tidak menjawab soalan anda...
Bukan ana tidak mahu menjawab soalan ente, tetapi ana mahukan kepastian terlebih dahulu sebelum berhujjah ke apa...
Ini kerana, sebelum ini jieshang mengatakan Imam Syafie ada contradict dengan al-Quran..so, bolehlah ia dipanggil "agama" syafie'..

So, sebelum ana buat apa2, nak nak pastikan dahulu pandangan daripada pengikut Syiah...

Biar jelas pandangan masing2, baru senang nak bincang.

JieShiang · Post time 23-9-2008 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 22-9-2008 06:34 PM
Akhi ziwasi,
ente perlu faham asal usul perbicaraan ana dalam thread ini...ia bertitik tolak daripada kenyataan jishang yang menyatakan sebelum ini yang mempolemikkan pendapat Imam Syafie yang mengatakan bolehnya seorang bapa berkahwin dengan anak zinanya. sehingga mengatakan ini adalah "percanggahan" dengan al-quran dan sepatutnya dipanggil "agama" syafie...nauzibillah...

Bertitik tolak dari inilah ana mengasak jieshang dengan pelbagai persoalan bagi membuktikan bahawa andaian beliau sebelum ini yang mengatakan "agama" syafie adalah dusta dan salah...itulah ceritanya..

Nice story teller! See his other piece of story from other thread ...

Di sini ana ingin menarik perhatian sahabat-sahabat sekalian berkenaan tajuk "marjaie" yang sedang dibincang dalam thread ini...

Ana ingin berkongsi sedikit pengalaman yang ana dapati dari sebuah forum yang bernama asyraaf...ana ingat, forum ini jugalah yang dijaja oleh sesetengah penggiat syiah di sini.

Kisahnya bermula di sana apabila ana mengatakan bahawa syiah ini adalah satu agama dan bukan satu mazhab, maka sekonyong-konyong itulah seorang super moderator di sana melenting dan meminta ana berdebat dengan syiah..supermod tersebut sebenarnya malu untuk mengaku dirinya seorang totok syiah.

Now my turn to tell story...

First when I read his story above, I made an assumption that TripleEgg = Marjaie (multinick) because they both have similar style of writing and promoting the same idea i.e. Shia is Agama. The logic behind it has to do with Tahrif of Quran. The way how he told the story in the other thread (even other Forum) as if Shia couldn't challenge him and he had very valid and strong arguments (he said: pukulan maut) that almost impossible to deny it.

His expertise in this topic was even acknowledged by Sunni Otai, Nahzaluz. Realising this, of course, I was very interested to see his knowledge of the subject, and see how valid his arguments are. As I used to mention before, I love academic discussion and hate to see people spreading fitna/false accusation. So I jump into this discussion eventhough I really don't have much time for forum.

If you look from the beginning (thread Agama Shia...), I touched on the issue of Quran, Mujtahid, Fekah and Akidah so that at the end I can prove to him that his accusation (Shia is Agama based on the issue of Tahrif of Quran) is completely false. As "umpan", I used the issue of "Agama Shafie" (eventhough I believe it differently) because it is very much similar to the issue of "Agama Shia" in terms of inference/proof. It seems 搈y umpan

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 02:08 PM

Buat pengetahuan ente, ana mahu selesaikan satu2 isu...

Ana tak bincang lagi tentang hujahan ana yang mengatakan syiah itu satu agama..harap maklum..

Ana mahu selesaikan isu "agama" syafie yang ditimbulkan ente terlebih dahulu...

So, janganlah ente mao "konar baring"...jawab je soalan ana....mudahkan...?

[ Last edited by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 02:11 PM ]

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 02:10 PM

Oh, ana bukanlah multinick yang ente dakwakan...ana bukanlah seperti orang itteew....

JieShiang · Post time 23-9-2008 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 12:13 PM
Reply #100 JieShiang's post
Sebelum ana jawab soalan ente, elokalah ente jawab soalan ana dulu..

biar jelas pendirian masing2 sebelum berhujjah..

So, akhir sekali Ana inginkan kepastian yang nyata daripada pengikut syiah di sini,

"Adakah kamu masih menganggap bahawa mazhab syafie adalah "agama" syafie?"
A. Ya
B. Tidak

How many times do I need to answer. Didn't I give the answer already?
Your previous post:

Soalan ana:
Adakah sekarang ini ente mempercayai bahawa mazhab syafie itu adalah AGAMA SYAFIE?
A) Ya
B) Tidak

My previous answer:

You said you have seen my statement in the first post. I thought you could understand it. I don抰 know that you are so slow. The answer is of course (B) but the explanation is still to come. The reason why I delayed to give the definite answer was that I was still explaining the classification of Akidah (not finish yet) and your question was just an interruption.

You used the word 搈asih

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 02:39 PM

So, ente punya jawapan ialah B.

Jadi ana harap persoalan "agama" syafie tidak berbangkit lagi selepas ini.

JieShiang · Post time 23-9-2008 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 02:10 PM
Oh, ana bukanlah multinick yang ente dakwakan...ana bukanlah seperti orang itteew....

I never "dakwa", I made "andaian" (assumption) based on inductive reasoning.

First when I read his story above, I made an assumption that TripleEgg = Marjaie (multinick) because they both have similar style of writing and promoting the same idea i.e. Shia is Agama.

JieShiang · Post time 23-9-2008 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 02:08 PM
Buat pengetahuan ente, ana mahu selesaikan satu2 isu...

Ana tak bincang lagi tentang hujahan ana yang mengatakan syiah itu satu agama..harap maklum..

Ana mahu selesaikan isu "agama" syafie ...

Okay! now you have no other reasons to "dolak dalih", show "hujjahan ente yg mengatakan syiah itu agama".

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 03:00 PM

Alhamdulillah....satu isu dah selesai.

[ Last edited by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 03:22 PM ]

ziwasi · Post time 23-9-2008 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 12:27 PM
Maaflah kerana tidak menjawab soalan anda...
Bukan ana tidak mahu menjawab soalan ente, tetapi ana mahukan kepastian terlebih dahulu sebelum berhujjah ke apa...

Salam...Tak pa...Maaf diterima....

Lagi pula gesaan sdr. nak minta pendirian kami pengikut mazhab ahlul bayt as ttg mazhab syafie - agama atau mazhab, sy secara peribadi juga telah menjelaskan pada post 99.

Malahan sdr jieshiang, jg beri jawapan yg sama....

And now, bola kembali ke kaki sdr.

Ana tak bincang lagi tentang hujahan ana yang mengatakan syiah itu satu agama..harap maklum..

Ana mahu selesaikan isu "agama" syafie yang ditimbulkan ente terlebih dahulu...

Alhamdulillah....satu isu dah selesai.

Jadi, gesaan jieshiang terhadap sdr boleh disambut ya....

Okay! now you have no other reasons to "dolak dalih", show "hujjahan ente yg mengatakan syiah itu agama".

Solawat!

Marja'ie · Post time 23-9-2008 05:01 PM

Insyaallah...luas tapak tangan, mangkuk ana tadahkan....

ziwasi · Post time 23-9-2008 06:44 PM

Jangan jadi mangkuk berayun sudah.....

JieShiang · Post time 23-9-2008 10:34 PM

Originally posted by Marja'ie at 23-9-2008 05:01 PM
Insyaallah...luas tapak tangan, mangkuk ana tadahkan....

This is very good. Now we have another Agama. So, we have Islam, Kristian, Yahudi and Shia. I hope you don't consider Lahore Ahmadi and Anti-Hadith as agama too.

Nanti, susah I mau makan di rumah kawan-kawan. Takut sembelihan tak halal, nak pergi haji sama pun takut nanti tak boleh masuk Mekah sebab bukan Islam. Kira kafir lah diorang.

Triple_8 · Post time 24-9-2008 09:14 AM

Pedulikan dulu makan-makan kat rumah kengkawan awak tuu... minum dulu susu ANMUM tu banyak-banyak, ia baik untuk orang-orang tua yang dah sakit-sakit urat...

Qadyani dan enti-hadis pun mazhab jugak ke...? Mueheheheheh!

JieShiang · Post time 24-9-2008 11:13 AM

Alhamdooleeellaah laa, you don't consider Ahmadi and anti-hadith as Agama, If not I have to come up with many more inferences to defend their believes.

Aiiyyaa, you've forgotten aaa, all my ANMUM stocks given to you already maa.

Where is your sepupu, still in toilet aaa. Itu senak perut talaa mau ilang ka?

[ Last edited by JieShiang at 24-9-2008 11:18 AM ]

Marja'ie · Post time 24-9-2008 01:46 PM

Originally posted by JieShiang at 24-9-2008 11:13 AM
Alhamdooleeellaah laa, you don't consider Ahmadi and anti-hadith as Agama, If not I have to come up with many more inferences to defend their believes.

Aiiyyaa, you've forgotten aaa, all my ...

Sabar dulu annee...!

Beri peluang kepada pihak pendakwaraya untuk meneliti fail-fail kes dahulu, sebelum membentangkan hujjah pertuduhan...

JieShiang · Post time 24-9-2008 01:51 PM

Off Topic sebentar...

Qadyani dan enti-hadis pun mazhab jugak ke...? Mueheheheheh!

Don't get confused. Lahore Ahmadi is not Qadiani because they believe differently. You may call them Lahori but not Qadiani. It can be considered an insult to call them Qadiani.

From Wikipidea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahore_Ahmadiyya_Movement

The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement for the Propagation of Islam, Ahmadiyya Anjuman Ishaat-i-Islam (Urdu: أحمدية أنجومان اشاعات الاسلام) (not to be confused with the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community), formed as a result of ideological differences [1] within the Ahmadiyya Community, after the demise of Maulana Hakim Noor-ud-Din in 1914, the first Khalifa after its founder, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

The main differing belief that led to the formation of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement as a distinct and separate group from the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is that the Lahore Ahmadiyya believe Muhammad to be the last of the prophets, and that after him no prophet can appear, neither a past one like Jesus, nor a new one. [8] They believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is referred to as a Prophet in the metaphorical sense only (as other Muslims saints have been referred to as well), and not in the real and technical meaning of the word as used in Islamic terminology. [9] In contrast, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community hold that Muhammad was the last law-bearing prophets and new non-law bearing prophets can come after him. [10] They hold Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a Prophet (with all the qualities of a prophet like Jesus) but subordinate and deputy to the Prophet Muhammad. [11]

Another differing issue between the two communities is regarding the status of Muslims who have not accepted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claims. The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement believes that any person who professes the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim, and cannot be called a Kafir (Non-Muslim) by anyone, [12] regardless of whether he/she believes in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad抯 claims or not. [13] In contrast the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that any Muslim who has not accepted Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claim is a Kafir, even if the person has not even heard the name of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

[ Last edited by JieShiang at 24-9-2008 01:55 PM ]

Marja'ie · Post time 24-9-2008 01:53 PM

Originally posted by JieShiang at 24-9-2008 01:51 PM
Off Topic sebentar...

Don't get confused. Lahore Ahmadi is not Qadiani because they believe differently. You may call them Lahori but not Qadiani. It can be considered an insult to call them ...

Minta ente bersabar...
kalau nak berbincang tentang ahmadi lahore ka, ahmedinejad ka...

,buat topik lain..

Boleh...?