|
|
wkk5159 posted on 3-4-2013 08:55 AM 
Compare all the faiths with open mind before one finally make up his/her mind in embracing it.
...
muslims also back forward in many issue....
besides, muslims country are most corrupt...just google it...our ex pm badawi too says the muslims country are corrrupt....
when muslims reject 'kemajuaan' they goes backward ...create poverty and this leads corruption...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
gunblade712 posted on 2-4-2013 11:17 PM
sure!
Kat link ni ada : http://mforum.cari.com.my/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=702471&extra=&p ...
dont misquote my writings.....who is great James or Jesus...
I have writen the meaning of James writings...
u took my writing out of contents and manipulated it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 3-4-2013 08:55 AM
Compare all the faiths with open mind before one finally make up his/her mind in embracing it.
...
I've done the comparing since I was a teenager. It took me 10 years to study what little I know about the faiths in Malaysia (back in my time, material's kinda limited).
To study a religion/faith, one must study it's teachings, not it's followers.
The flaw of the arguments presented by Truth.8 is that he always attack the follower's action, and not the teachings of Islam. Sadly, when it comes to the Bible, Truth.8 wants us to look at the Bible and not at the followers.
That's a very bias way of studying comparitive religion. Are you a follower of Truth.8's believes and method, bro?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Truth.8 posted on 3-4-2013 09:23 AM
muslims also back forward in many issue....
besides, muslims country are most corrupt...just go ...
see? It's all about "muslims". Corruption is rejected in Islam. Why judge based on "Muslims"?
Saying what you've said is the same saying that all Christians teaches racism and ethnic cleansing coz Hitler was a Christian. Of course, I do not believe these types of logic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Truth.8 posted on 3-4-2013 09:26 AM
dont misquote my writings.....who is great James or Jesus...
I have writen the meaning of James ...
I didn't misquote. I've quoted EXACTLY what you've said.
You told us there's not a word of "religion" stated in NT and OT.
There's also a case of John. You want me to show to you how you've twisted the words in John?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 3-4-2013 08:55 AM
Compare all the faiths with open mind before one finally make up his/her mind in embracing it.
...
wkk5159:
Compare all the faiths with open mind before one finally make up his/her mind in embracing it.
I was once a atheist and i did extensive personal research into comparative religions of the world.
Sadly in Malaysian and even most muslim countries, muslims are shunned from formal contact with other faiths.
Indeed, one have to assess the available evidents (Bible, Al-Quran, Hindu scriptures), and through logical reasoning one can determine which one is the true way of God.
If you follow this discussion, I was trying to reason with @Truth.8 on how one can determine which books should he/she follow but unfortunately @Truth.8 seemed to shunt himself to his own belief without proper reasoning. See one of his response:
Truth.8:
I feel more comfortable reading Bible because I feels GOD near me....
Again, the question was not whether if he is comfortable reading the Bible (that is just to subjective) the question was why one should follow the Bible (or other books), what is the criteria to decide if the Bible (or other books) is the true and absolute way of God?
I also agree with you on comparing all faiths with open mind, unfortunately Truth.8 didn't do the same for Al-Quran. See post #69.
It is impressive to see that you have found your own faith through your extensive personal research. Would you like to have further discussion on this?
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 3-4-2013 11:44 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
gunblade712 posted on 3-4-2013 10:56 AM
I've done the comparing since I was a teenager. It took me 10 years to study what little I know ab ...
You are right, we should look at the teachings of that particular faith and not the folllowers of that faith.
I studied the teaching of the faiths i was interesting in instead of focusing on the followers but frankly speaking as a human being, one will inevitably be influenced by the conducts, general demeanors and whatever deeds carried out by the followers of that particular faith.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mashimaru83 posted on 3-4-2013 11:25 AM
Indeed, one have to assess the available evidents (Bible, Al-Quran, Hindu scriptures), and thr ...
Words sometime can be as potent as a sharp knife, it will provoke even the most gentile soul....
I won't comment on other forumers behaviour and reaction in this forum as i think most believers in this forum have very deep rooted beliefs and they can become very defensive in their argument when provoked....this of course include me, as you can see in other thread, especially debate with forumer sam1528.
I guess nobody enjoy heated debate, sometime even to the extent of name calling, defaming, slandering and insulting........ it defeat the very purpose of forum here.
There are of course very gentile Christian forumers here with true grace of God, eg : Sparrow......
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 3-4-2013 12:27 PM
Words sometime can be as potent as a sharp knife, it will provoke even the most gentile soul....
...
I take that you don't want to have discussion on this topic, which is totally fine with me. Let me know if you change your mind and would like to discuss on this. The floor is always open.
wkk5159:
Sadly in Malaysian and even most muslim countries, muslims are shunned from formal contact with other faiths.
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 3-4-2013 01:03 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mashimaru83 posted on 3-4-2013 01:01 PM
I take that you don't want to have discussion on this topic, which is totally fine with me. Let me ...
I don't say i'm not interested in this topic i started, it just that due to the nature of my job, i sometime may not be able to respond to you in weeks or even months.
Since i'm free now, i've started it and now it's your turn to get the ball rolling.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 3-4-2013 02:38 PM
I don't say i'm not interested in this topic i started, it just that due to the nature of my job, ...
What is your criteria to decide if the Bible (or other books) is the true and absolute way of God?
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 3-4-2013 06:01 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mashimaru83 posted on 3-4-2013 05:59 PM
What is your criteria to decide if the Bible (or other books) is the true and absolute way of Go ...
There are many criterias and one of my favourites is"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 3-4-2013 10:06 PM
There are many criterias and one of my favourites is"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eat ...
What does that criteria says? How can it shows that The Bible is the absolute way of God and not human made?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mashimaru83 posted on 3-4-2013 10:57 PM
What does that criteria says? How can it shows that The Bible is the absolute way of God and not ...
I believe the Bible to be word of God simply because the history of the Bible starts with a phenomenal account of history ! It consists of not one book but it's an ancient collection of writings, comprised of 66 separate books, written over approximately 1,600 years, by at least 40 distinct authors. The Old Testament contains 39 books written from approximately 1500 to 400 BC, and the New Testament contains 27 books written from approximately 40 to 90 AD.
Imagine 40 different authors lived in different era but writing the same theme which praised the same God. These authors did not know each other and yet the message they try to convey is parallel and even prophesy the same Messiah( Jesus Christ ), hundred years before Christ was born.
Now, if i tell you to go to library and randomly take two books by two different authors and even from same era, will the meanings in their books they try to convey share the same theme ?? The answer is 99.99% NO !
So now do you know why base on this evidence alone, Bible unlike any other books, it is Words of God !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 4-4-2013 12:36 PM
I believe the Bible to be word of God simply because the history of the Bible starts with a phenom ...
wkk5159:
I believe the Bible to be word of God simply because the history of the Bible starts with a phenomenal account of history ! It consists of not one book but it's an ancient collection of writings, comprised of 66 separate books, written over approximately 1,600 years, by at least 40 distinct authors. The Old Testament contains 39 books written from approximately 1500 to 400 BC, and the New Testament contains 27 books written from approximately 40 to 90 AD.
Imagine 40 different authors lived in different era but writing the same theme which praised the same God. These authors did not know each other and yet the message they try to convey is parallel and even prophesy the same Messiah( Jesus Christ ), hundred years before Christ was born.
Now, if i tell you to go to library and randomly take two books by two different authors and even from same era, will the meanings in their books they try to convey share the same theme ?? The answer is 99.99% NO !
So now do you know why base on this evidence alone, Bible unlike any other books, it is Words of God !
The phenomena evident that you mentioned also has an issue. It only works at present times but not 1600 years ago. (i.e. It doesn't look that phenomenal 1600 years ago).
The criteria that we should use must be applicable over time/condition so that the evidents (The Bible, Al-Quran, Hindu scriptures) can be tested with this criteria under all conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mashimaru83 posted on 4-4-2013 01:24 PM
It sounds phenomenal but in my opinion this criteria is lacking something. The muslim can say Al ...
Not 1600 years ago but in the span of 1600 years.......if Bible is just any other book, do you think the impact on humanity will be this great ? It has achieve something extra ordinary that no other books by mortal human beings ever accomplish. For example, even in non-Christian countries, Sunday is declared public holiday and the universal calender we all adopt is Anno Domini (AD)or Common Era(CE)or in other word, year of our Lord.
Faiths or beliefs can't be measured or proven by any empirical methods, for centuries people had tried virtually any theory and method but the outcome is futile and it only create more atheist. Anything which can be proven by science is not faith but science........but that doesn't mean that if a faith can't be proven it must be fake or wrong. Just like before the advent of molecular science, people then know that they need air to breath and survive eventhough they have never seen the oxygen and have no idea how molecule of oxygen look like. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 4-4-2013 02:57 PM
Not 1600 years ago but in the span of 1600 years.......if Bible is just any other book, do you thi ...
wkk5159:
Not 1600 years ago but in the span of 1600 years.......if Bible is just any other book, do you think the impact on humanity will be this great ? It has achieve something extra ordinary that no other books by mortal human beings ever accomplish. For example, even in non-Christian countries, Sunday is declared public holiday and the universal calender we all adopt is Anno Domini (AD)or Common Era(CE)or in other word, year of our Lord.
Well Bible certainly is just not any other book. The same goes to Al-Quran, it also has its own impact on humanity to this day. Nevertheless I don't think the impact of each book can be the measure of absolute truth. It's just too subjective. Different people will have different say on the impact, so no one can tell which one is the true absolute way.
wkk5159:
Faiths or beliefs can't be measured or proven by any empirical methods, for centuries people had tried virtually any theory and method but the outcome is futile and it only create more atheist.
Since you mentioned you were an atheist, I believe you don't fall in this group. You somehow found the answer through your own personal research.
wkk5159:
Anything which can be proven by science is not faith but science........but that doesn't mean that if a faith can't be proven it must be fake or wrong. Just like before the advent of molecular science, people then know that they need air to breath and survive eventhough they have never seen the oxygen and have no idea how molecule of oxygen look like.
I'm not sure if can agree with "anything which can be proven by science is not faith but science". I don't know how did you arrive to that conclusion. Even the Bible has science in it.
I don't think the Bible cannot be proven. What if someone bring to you the criteria from the Bible itself?
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 4-4-2013 06:55 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yea, lots of happenings and records in the Bible can definitely be proven by science, one of the best example is ancient people and before the advancement of astronomy, people used to think that earth was flat but the Bible says; in Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, ” A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22—“the circle of the earth.”
This together with my narration of the bible in the last thread, strongly suggest the existence of a Almighty God.
But that's not my point, what i tried to say is that nobody, whether then and now never ever succeeded in proving the existence of God. In future i'm not sure.....it may happen, nobody knows.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
wkk5159 posted on 4-4-2013 08:11 PM
Yea, lots of happenings and records in the Bible can definitely be proven by science, one of the bes ...
wkk5159:
Yea, lots of happenings and records in the Bible can definitely be proven by science, one of the best example is ancient people and before the advancement of astronomy, people used to think that earth was flat but the Bible says; in Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, ” A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22—“the circle of the earth.”
This together with my narration of the bible in the last thread, strongly suggest the existence of a Almighty God.
But that's not my point, what i tried to say is that nobody, whether then and now never ever succeeded in proving the existence of God. In future i'm not sure.....it may happen, nobody knows.
Proving the existence of God is an interesting topic, but won't fit in this discussion. What I haven't heard from you is your criteria on selecting the book of faith. There are The Bible, Al-Quran, Hindu scriptures, and others. Since you have done study on comparative religion, how did you end up picking The Bible? What are the criterias did you use when comparing these books?
Last edited by mashimaru83 on 5-4-2013 08:00 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mashimaru83 posted on 4-4-2013 11:04 PM
Proving the existence of God is an interesting topic, but won't fit in this discussion. What I ...
A true faith in my opinion should fullfill these criterias;
1. The doctrines and teachings of this faith must be able to provide eternal salvation to the mortal soul and they would truly reflect the image of God just as God created them in the garden of Eden according to His image.
2. It shouldn't contradict with the very fundamental value of human right.
3. There shouldn't be any taboo in consuming any food as it is unscientific.
4. Its effect on humanity as a whole must be positive.
5. The over all personalities, qualities and characters of the followers which associate with that particular faith.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Author
Post time 3-4-2013 10:56 AM
