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sam1528 posted on 23-11-2013 05:14 PM 
Ha ha , I quote the contention by bro 'gunblade712' :
Your response as follows : The 3 contentions you have been running away from in this thread
(1) the bible has serious scientific contradiction , vegetation created first then sun
(2) who rested on the 7th day? The 'father' or the 'Son' or the 'Holy Spirit'?
(3) Does all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes fro
thanks for showing us ur stupdiltiy again...
1) no error as God made light via HIS power...all survive.....
2) God not tired but showing example how humans should work 6 days and rested 1 days.. "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.....both created the earth
3) yes some choose evil way some did not ...it stated in my above writing Pride ,heart, emotion...with Bible verses.
Now muslims need to explain:
1. did dinasours mention in quran?
2. why ur allah the all knowing need to create good and evil ?...the jinn
3. how the earth created? sun first?
Last edited by Truth.8 on 24-11-2013 02:31 PM
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Truth.8 posted on 24-11-2013 02:30 PM
thanks for showing us ur stupdiltiy again...
1) no error as God made light via HIS power...all survive.....
2) God not tired but showing example how humans should work 6 days and rested 1 days.. "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.....both created the earth
3) yes some choose evil way some did not ...it stated in my above writing Pride ,heart, emotion...with Bible verses.
Now muslims need to explain:
1. did dinasours mention in quran?
2. why ur allah the all knowing need to create good and evil ?...the jinn
3. how the earth created? sun first?
I don't really know how many times I need to tell you. You seem to ignore what everything that has been said but repeat the same issue over and over again. Is your education that bad until you cannot understand what the responses have been?
To respond to you I will just copy paste what has been written :
(1) from my post#101
Christian fundamentalism had fried your brains. To be honest I can't understand your argument. Your own bible commentary stated that the light is different from the sun. How different , we don't know. In fact John Gill stated like its more of glimmering light. Your answer is just your assumption that when the biblical God stated 'let there be light' , it somehow powers the life of vegetation. Its is all faith based assumption , nothing more. Yours is just blind faith.
What do you think of the mentality of the biblical God who created vegetation first then the sun? There is something wrong with the bible. However fundies like you throw away logic for blind faith.
(2) There is no verse in the bible that stated God is not tired after the 6 days. The said verse , gen2:2-3 (NIV BIble)
2. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
3. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
The definition of rest :
cease work or movement in order to relax, sleep, or recover strength
The biblical God God need to recover its strength meaning your biblical God became weak or fatigue with the work. You are just reading into the bible giving it your own meaning that your God was not tired but providing humans an example. Can you show such in the above verses (gen2:2-3)? There is no such thing as your claim. Ha ha , man in likeness of God? Meaning your God has eyes , hands , etc .... a penis. What about breasts and vigina? This is so silly.
Who rested? The 'father' or the 'son' or the 'holy spirit'?
(3) I quote the contention by bro 'gunblade712'
Does all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes from?
Your answer :
Pride ,heart, emotion...with Bible verses.
His question is specific (see underlined). Why you answer talking about heart / emotion? You answered about pride by referring to isa14:12-14. However all biblical scholars confirmed that the context of this verses is about the King of Babylon not 'lucifer' the devil. You tried to lie your way thru but got caught and exposed. In short you did not answer the question (post#140). You did not explain why your biblical God created angels with 'nafs' and how these so called angels came to having 'nafs'.
You did not answer any of the 3 contentions which I repeat :
(1) the bible has serious scientific contradiction , vegetation created first then sun
(2) who rested on the 7th day? The 'father' or the 'Son' or the 'Holy Spirit'?
(3) Does all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes from
Simple answers from muslims
(1) Dinosaurs is a modern term ~ 200 yrs ago. The Quran mention them being 'dabbatin' or creatures per Quran31:10 (sahih international)
He created the heavens without pillars that you see and has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with you, and dispersed therein from every creature...
What is the issue here?
(2) Allah create humans and jinns to worship him (Quran51:56) per my post#128. Humans and Jinns have free will meaning we can choose whether to worship or rebel against Allah as these creations will have 'nafs'. This makes logical sense. In the end , those obedient to Allah would be rewarded and the others be punished. It does not make sense for angels to have free will per your claim. That makes them unpredictable. Its just an accident waiting to happen. What is there to prevent Angel Michael to join forces with the so called 'lucifer' tomorrow and another 'war in heaven' breaks out? Until now you cannot answer.
(3) The beginning of the universe has been explained well in the Quran rather than the bible. The explanation in the Quran is inline with the current cosmology. Singularity and the expansion. Quran21:30 (sahih international)
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing?
The current understanding :
According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density
The Quran states that the universe is always expanding , Quran51:47 (sahih international)
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Expanding universeThe fate of the universe is determined by a struggle between the momentum of expansion and the pull of gravity. The rate of expansion is expressed by the Hubble Constant, Ho, while the strength of gravity depends on the density and pressure of the matter in the universe
As whether the sun or earth was created first , I requote my post#123 :
The creation of the universe in the Quran is inline science (unlike the bible , vegetation/ earth was created first then the sun) : quran79:27-30 (sahih international)
27. Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.
28. He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.
29. And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.
30. And after that He spread the earth.
It is very clear , the heavens (in this case the universe) was created first. For our galaxy , the sun and earth (planets) were created ,ie. having day and night. Lastly the earth was populated (or 'spread the earth'). All in scientific sequence.
In fact what you asked have been answered a couple of posts ago. You are just too scared to challenge the response. That is why you keep on repeating your questions like an overgrown parrot. Why can't you challenge the answers?
However you did not even attempt to answer any of our questions. Well , you tried to answer on 'pride' but got caught lying.
Last edited by sam1528 on 24-11-2013 06:54 PM
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sam1528 posted on 24-11-2013 06:46 PM
I don't really know how many times I need to tell you. You seem to ignore what everything that has ... The biblical God God need to recover its strength meaningyour biblical God became weak or fatigue with the work. You are just readinginto the bible giving it your own meaning that your God was not tired butproviding humans an example. Can you show such in the above verses (gen2:2-3)?There is no such thing as your claim. Ha ha , man in likeness of God? Meaningyour God has eyes , hands , etc .... a penis. What about breasts and vigina?This is so silly.
Wow this bitch getting so excited by mentioning manhood things…listen bitch , if u do not understand don’t make urself moron here . it kind embarssment …unless u missing that manhood in ur vagina…shame on u..behaving worst than harlot in this forum…..either your husband not giving u much attention…
Anyway here is the answer: Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. A need for rest? No -- "rested" simply means "desisted from exertion", i.e., stopped what one was doing. The Hebrew word for "rest" (shabath) is used in the context ofsomething ceasing or lacking, or in the sense of celebration (see Lev. 2:13;23:32; the Greek in Heb. 4:4 has similar meaning.) freshed" literally means "breathed"-- this word is used only 3 times in the OT, once in reference to people on the Sabbath (Ex. 23:12) and once at 2 Sam. 16:14, "And the king, and all thepeople that were with him, came weary, and refreshed themselves there." Does it mean one needs a nap? Only if the context demands it, as in the latter case. The word actually suggests more of a sense of satisfaction as derived from a cooling air, as is appropos for the seventhday (Gen. 1:31, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it wasvery good. -- an evaluation of what was before it.) If tiredness was what was at issue, a better word would have been ravach, or "breathefreely." Is. 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: theyare a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. Even by itself, it's hard to see how this wouldgive any idea that God was physically tired, and the word bears it out:it is la'ah, meaning disgusted. (This word is also used in Jer. 15:6.) Harder is this one: Is. 43:24 Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hastthou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to servewith thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities. This time it is yaga, but there's a poeticpoint to make, though not what Skeptics might expect. This is made in counter-point to Is. 43:23,"Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neitherhast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve withan offering, nor wearied thee with incense." 43:24 is a rhetoricalhyperbole, making the point that none of God's demands upon the people were thesort to wear them out, and God counterpointing -- with heavy sarcasm --"No, you have worn me out with your sins." This is a powerful indictment in light of that God said in 40:28 that he does not get weary.
weary
ˈwɪəri/
adjective
adjective: weary; comparative adjective: wearier; superlative adjective: weariest
1.
feeling or showing extreme tiredness, especially as a result of excessive exertion
His question is specific (see underlined). Why you answertalking about heart / emotion? You answered about pride by referring toisa14:12-14. However all biblical scholars confirmed that the context of thisverses is about the King of Babylon not 'lucifer' the devil.
Opps here we go again…the bitch adding to corrupt the Bible…here the truth: (12-15) The fall of Lucifer.
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of themorning! How you are cut down to theground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I willascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will alsosit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I willascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ Yet youshall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.”
a. How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,son of the morning! Here, the prophet identifies the king of Babylon as Lucifer, son ofthe morning. Some debate if Lucifer is a name or a title; the word means morning star or day star, referring to a brightly shining object in the heavens. Whether it is a title or a name makes little difference; this once brightly shining king of Babylon is now fallen from heaven.
i. The prophetic habit of speaking to both a near and a distant fulfillment, the prophet will sometimes speak more to the near or more to the distant. Here is a good example of Isaiah speaking more to the distant, ultimate fulfillment. It is true that the king of literal Babylon shined brightly among the men of his day, and fell as hard and as completely as if a man were to fall from heaven. But there was a far more brightly shining being who inhabited heaven, and fell even more dramatically - the king of spiritual Babylon, Satan.
b. Fallen from heaven: In fact there are four falls of Satan, and this refers to his final, fourth fall.
i. Satan fell from glorified to profane (Ezekiel28:14-16). This is what Jesus spoke of in Luke 10:18 when He says He saw satan fall like lightning from heaven (here the dinasours destroyed).This is the only fall of Satan that has already happened.
ii. Satan will fall from having access to heaven(Job 1:12, 1 Kings 22:21, Zechariah 3:1) to restriction on the earth(Revelation 12:9).
iii. Satan will fall from his place on the earth tobondage in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).
iv. Finally, as mentioned here in Isaiah 14:12,Satan will fall from the bottomless pit to the lake of fire, which we commonlyknow as hell (Revelation 20:10).
c. Son of the morning: This is a title of glory,beauty, and honor, which fit Lucifer well before his fall. The morning isglorious, and in Hebrew thinking, the son of “x” is characterized by “x.” So, beforehis fall, Lucifer was characterized by the glory of the morning.
i. Jesus Himself is called the Bright and Morning Star (Revelation 22:16). Satan, though a createdbeing, had some of these glorious qualities in himself. No wonder that Satan himself transforms himself into anangel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), deceiving many with his apparentglory, beauty, and goodness.
d. How you are cut down to the ground: What acontrast! This being, once so high, once so shining, once so bright, is now cut down to theground.
e. For you have said in your heart: Here, Godtells us the reason behind the fall of the king of Babylon, both literal andspiritual. The fall was prompted by something he said, even though he may havenever said it with his lips - it was enough that he said it in his heart.
f. I will: The pride, the grasping selfishambition, the self-will of the king of Babylon is powerfully expressed in five I willstatements. This is the essence of the self-focused and self-obsessed life.
i. I will ascend into heaven: “Heaven will be myhome and my place of honor.”
ii. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:“I will be enthroned, and will be exalted above all other angelic beings.”
iii. I will also sit on the mount of the congregation:“I will sit in the place of glory and honor and attention.”
iv. I will ascend above the heights: “I willcontinue to rise, even in heaven, until all see me in my bright shining glory.”
v. I will be like the Most High: “I will beglorious, and be set equal to God, far above all other created beings.”
vi. We see in these statements not so much a desireto exalt one’s self above God, but the desire to exalt one’s self above one’s peers. From this passage, it seems thatSatan’s desire was not so much to be above God, but to be honored and regardedas the highest angel, above the [other]stars of God,receiving the glory and attention one would receive being next to God, equalwith God, likethe Most High. We don’t have to want to be exalted higher than Godto be like Satan. It is enough to want to be exalted above other people!
vii. Lucifer was certainly a glorious angel (day star, son of the morning, and alsocalled the seal of perfection, full ofwisdom and perfect in beauty . . . the anointed cherub who covers inEzekiel 28:12 and 14). Yet, there came a time when despite all his beauty andglory, he departed from the heart of God by wanting to exalt himself above hispeers. Instead, the heart of Jesus says, “The status of equality with God isnot something to hang on to. I will let it go. I will give up My reputation, bea servant, live humbly among men, and even die an excruciating and humiliatingdeath.” (Philippians 2:5-8) When Lucifer departed from this heart, he fell fromglory.
viii. “Itis a strange paradox that nothing makes a being less like God than the urge tobe his equal, for he who was God stepped down from the throne of his glory todisplay to the wondering eyes of men the humility of God.” (Grogan)
g. What promptedSatan’s desire to exalt himself above all other creatures? What prompted the five I will statements?
i. Why did Lucifer rebel? Perhaps because herejected God’s plan to create an order of being made in His image (Genesis1:26), who would be beneath the angels in dignity (Hebrews 2:6-7a; 2 Peter2:11), yet would be served by angels in the present (Hebrews 1:14; 2:7-8; Psalm91:11-12) and would one day be lifted in honor and status above the angels (1Corinthians 6:3; 1 John 3:2). Satan wanted to be the highest among allcreatures, equal to God in glory and honor, and the plan to create man wouldeventually put men above angels. He was apparently able to persuade one-thirdof the angelic beings to join him in his rebellion (Revelation 12:3-4, 7, and9).
ii. Ifthis is the case, it explains well Satan’s present strategy against man: toobscure the image of God in man through encouraging sin and rebellion, to causeman to serve him, and to prevent the ultimate glorification of man.
h. Yet you shall be brought down: Despite Satan’sdesire to exalt himself, he will not be exalted at all. Certainly, there is asense in which he is exalted right now, but this is but an eye-blink in thescope of eternity. Satan, like all those who desire to exalt themselves, shall be broughtdown.
i. 1Peter 5:6 expresses the true path to being exalted: Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He mayexalt you in due time. In Mark 9:35, Jesus said If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant ofall.
My question still stand:
1. 1. Did dinosaurs mention in quran? how it was destroyed ??
2. why ur allah the all knowing need to create good and evil ?...the jinn
3. do jinn has wives, childrens or getting married?
4. What does the quran says about creating the earth ? sun first?
p/s : for muslims the quran says sun first ...meaning their allah do not have light to create the living things in begining.
as for Bible : 1 First God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. -Genesis 1:1-3
Here we can understand that God energy and power moving over and plants was created thru HIS power and Light...
Think
Last edited by Truth.8 on 24-11-2013 09:48 PM
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Truth.8 posted on 24-11-2013 08:50 PM
Wow this bitch getting so excited by mentioning manhood things…listen bitch , if u do not understand don’t make urself moron here . it kind embarssment …unless u missing that manhood in ur vagina…shame on u..behaving worst than harlot in this forum…..either your husband not giving u much attention…
Let me repeat the phrase from your post #141
"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.....
Christians like you believe that you are a carbon copy of your biblical God. You have a penis , don't you? Does your God have a penis? What about vigina then if your biblical God is like a woman? This absurdity is something you need to face because christians like you claim to be a carbon copies of your God. Why are you going ballistics?
I stated in my last post that rested means
cease work or movement in order to relax, sleep, or recover strength
No matter how you twist and turn , to rest means to stop work or an acton because one is tired. There are no 2 ways about it.
Meaning your biblical God became tired or fatigued with his 6 days work. A human attribute again (remember your God making you in his image). Your biblical God is a weak God.
Opps here we go again…the bitch adding to corrupt the Bible…here the truth:
(12-15) The fall of Lucifer.
“How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of themorning! How you are cut down to theground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I willascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will alsosit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I willascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ Yet youshall be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the Pit.”
a. How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,son of the morning! Here, the prophet identifies the king of Babylon as Lucifer, son ofthe morning. Some debate if Lucifer is a name or a title; the word means morning star or day star, referring to a brightly shining object in the heavens. Whether it is a title or a name makes little difference; this once brightly shining king of Babylon is now fallen from heaven.
i. The prophetic habit of speaking to both a near and a distant fulfillment, the prophet will sometimes speak more to the near or more to the distant. Here is a good example of Isaiah speaking more to the distant, ultimate fulfillment. It is true that the king of literal Babylon shined brightly among the men of his day, and fell as hard and as completely as if a man were to fall from heaven. But there was a far more brightly shining being who inhabited heaven, and fell even more dramatically - the king of spiritual Babylon, Satan.
b. Fallen from heaven: In fact there are four falls of Satan, and this refers to his final, fourth fall.
i. Satan fell from glorified to profane (Ezekiel28:14-16). This is what Jesus spoke of in Luke 10:18 when He says He saw satan fall like lightning from heaven (here the dinasours destroyed).This is the only fall of Satan that has already happened.
ii. Satan will fall from having access to heaven(Job 1:12, 1 Kings 22:21, Zechariah 3:1) to restriction on the earth(Revelation 12:9).
iii. Satan will fall from his place on the earth tobondage in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).
iv. Finally, as mentioned here in Isaiah 14:12,Satan will fall from the bottomless pit to the lake of fire, which we commonlyknow as hell (Revelation 20:10).
c. Son of the morning: This is a title of glory,beauty, and honor, which fit Lucifer well before his fall. The morning isglorious, and in Hebrew thinking, the son of “x” is characterized by “x.” So, beforehis fall, Lucifer was characterized by the glory of the morning.
i. Jesus Himself is called the Bright and Morning Star (Revelation 22:16). Satan, though a createdbeing, had some of these glorious qualities in himself. No wonder that Satan himself transforms himself into anangel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), deceiving many with his apparentglory, beauty, and goodness.
d. How you are cut down to the ground: What acontrast! This being, once so high, once so shining, once so bright, is now cut down to theground.
e. For you have said in your heart: Here, Godtells us the reason behind the fall of the king of Babylon, both literal andspiritual. The fall was prompted by something he said, even though he may havenever said it with his lips - it was enough that he said it in his heart.
f. I will: The pride, the grasping selfishambition, the self-will of the king of Babylon is powerfully expressed in five I willstatements. This is the essence of the self-focused and self-obsessed life.
i. I will ascend into heaven: “Heaven will be myhome and my place of honor.”
ii. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:“I will be enthroned, and will be exalted above all other angelic beings.”
iii. I will also sit on the mount of the congregation:“I will sit in the place of glory and honor and attention.”
iv. I will ascend above the heights: “I willcontinue to rise, even in heaven, until all see me in my bright shining glory.”
v. I will be like the Most High: “I will beglorious, and be set equal to God, far above all other created beings.”
vi. We see in these statements not so much a desireto exalt one’s self above God, but the desire to exalt one’s self above one’s peers. From this passage, it seems thatSatan’s desire was not so much to be above God, but to be honored and regardedas the highest angel, above the [other]stars of God,receiving the glory and attention one would receive being next to God, equalwith God, likethe Most High. We don’t have to want to be exalted higher than Godto be like Satan. It is enough to want to be exalted above other people!
vii. Lucifer was certainly a glorious angel (day star, son of the morning, and alsocalled the seal of perfection, full ofwisdom and perfect in beauty . . . the anointed cherub who covers inEzekiel 28:12 and 14). Yet, there came a time when despite all his beauty andglory, he departed from the heart of God by wanting to exalt himself above hispeers. Instead, the heart of Jesus says, “The status of equality with God isnot something to hang on to. I will let it go. I will give up My reputation, bea servant, live humbly among men, and even die an excruciating and humiliatingdeath.” (Philippians 2:5-8) When Lucifer departed from this heart, he fell fromglory.
viii. “Itis a strange paradox that nothing makes a being less like God than the urge tobe his equal, for he who was God stepped down from the throne of his glory todisplay to the wondering eyes of men the humility of God.” (Grogan)
g. What promptedSatan’s desire to exalt himself above all other creatures? What prompted the five I will statements?
i. Why did Lucifer rebel? Perhaps because herejected God’s plan to create an order of being made in His image (Genesis1:26), who would be beneath the angels in dignity (Hebrews 2:6-7a; 2 Peter2:11), yet would be served by angels in the present (Hebrews 1:14; 2:7-8; Psalm91:11-12) and would one day be lifted in honor and status above the angels (1Corinthians 6:3; 1 John 3:2). Satan wanted to be the highest among allcreatures, equal to God in glory and honor, and the plan to create man wouldeventually put men above angels. He was apparently able to persuade one-thirdof the angelic beings to join him in his rebellion (Revelation 12:3-4, 7, and9).
ii. Ifthis is the case, it explains well Satan’s present strategy against man: toobscure the image of God in man through encouraging sin and rebellion, to causeman to serve him, and to prevent the ultimate glorification of man.
h. Yet you shall be brought down: Despite Satan’sdesire to exalt himself, he will not be exalted at all. Certainly, there is asense in which he is exalted right now, but this is but an eye-blink in thescope of eternity. Satan, like all those who desire to exalt themselves, shall be broughtdown.
i. 1Peter 5:6 expresses the true path to being exalted: Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He mayexalt you in due time. In Mark 9:35, Jesus said If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant ofall.
I have caught you again and again trying to lie using the KJV (or Gay-J-V) bible and tying it to the so called 'lucifer'. Only the KJV translation has the word 'lucifer'. KJV is actually a translation from the Vulgate (latin bible). Therefore its a translation is from secondary source Latin not Koine Greek. You are just appealing to a conspiracy theory about satan or 'lucifer' in isa14. Dan Wallace , a professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary has the following to say about this conspiracy theory of the so called fall of 'lucifer' :
In reality, in both passages the word in the original is referring literally to Venus, the ‘morning star’ among the stars. The Hebrew word in Isa 14.12 is ‏הילל, a word that occurs nowhere else in the Hebrew Bible ...
Lucifer is not a proper name but is simply the word for ‘morning star’ or ‘day star’ in Latin. Both in Isa 14.12 and Job 38.32, the KJV translators simply transliterated the text in front of them rather than translate...
So, what are we saying? First, lucifer is not a proper name but is the Latin word for ‘morning star’ or ‘day star.’ In itself it has zero negative connotations. It all depends on what the secondary reference is to. If it is to a pagan king, as in Isa 14.12, then the implications in relation to him are evil. But in 2 Peter 1.19, the reference is to Jesus and the implications in relation to him are good.
the devil began with Jerome, we must admit that the KJV conspiracy patrol is making much ado about nothing. They have misread a transliteration as though it were a proper name, then assumed that the underlying Hebrew text meant Lucifer, embracing the false conclusion that calling the king ‘the morning star’ in Isa 14.12
This argument is thus linguistically wrong-headed and has no real basis.
Even the world reknown bible scholar , Dan Wallace agree with me. The term 'lucifer' only comes from the KJV bible. Isa14:12 is about the pagan king , not the fall of Satan / Lucifer. It is embarrassing for you that you have been pointed out wrong by a muslim with regards to your own bible. This goes on to show that you don't know your own bible but more into conspiracy theories / gossips rather than scholarly bible study. Ha ha , a christian in 'truth.8' caught peddaling a lie and conspiracy theory of his own bible by a muslim. Appears that we muslims know the bible better than you. That is why we are not christians because we know the bible is not the word of God and we muslims understand the bible better than you.
My question still stand:
1. 1. Did dinosaurs mention in quran? how it was destroyed ??
2. why ur allah the all knowing need to create good and evil ?...the jinn
3. do jinn has wives, childrens or getting married?
4. What does the quran says about creating the earth ? sun first?
p/s : for muslims the quran says sun first ...meaning their allah do not have light to create the living things in begining.
as for Bible : 1 First God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. -Genesis 1:1-3
Here we can understand that God energy and power moving over and plants was created thru HIS power and Light...
Think
You are a coward. You are not even challenging the answers. You know why? You do not have the intelligence nor the critical thinking to challenge hence you in repeating yourself over and over again. I repeat the answers per post#142
Simple answers from muslims
(1) Dinosaurs is a modern term ~ 200 yrs ago. The Quran mention them being 'dabbatin' or creatures per Quran31:10 (sahih international)
He created the heavens without pillars that you see and has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with you, and dispersed therein from every creature...
What is the issue here? The Quran does not mention how the dinoasurs were destroyed. It certainly was not due to the war in heaven where you claim your biblical God destroyed the earth. When the earth was destroyed - no more earth. Yor God had to create a new earth therefore there won't be any fossils of dinosaurs. Science have proven the bible to be wrong.
(2) Allah create humans and jinns to worship him (Quran51:56) per my post#128. Humans and Jinns have free will meaning we can choose whether to worship or rebel against Allah as these creations will have 'nafs'. This makes logical sense. In the end , those obedient to Allah would be rewarded and the others be punished. It does not make sense for angels to have free will per your claim. That makes them unpredictable. Its just an accident waiting to happen. What is there to prevent Angel Michael to join forces with the so called 'lucifer' tomorrow and another 'war in heaven' breaks out? Until now you cannot answer.
(3) Nothing in Quran about jinns having wives and getting married
(4) The beginning of the universe has been explained well in the Quran rather than the bible. The explanation in the Quran is inline with the current cosmology. Singularity and the expansion. Quran21:30 (sahih international)
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing?
The current understanding :
According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density
The Quran states that the universe is always expanding , Quran51:47 (sahih international)
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Expanding universeThe fate of the universe is determined by a struggle between the momentum of expansion and the pull of gravity. The rate of expansion is expressed by the Hubble Constant, Ho, while the strength of gravity depends on the density and pressure of the matter in the universe
As whether the sun or earth was created first , I requote my post#123 :
The creation of the universe in the Quran is inline science (unlike the bible , vegetation/ earth was created first then the sun) : quran79:27-30 (sahih international)
27. Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.
28. He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.
29. And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.
30. And after that He spread the earth.
It is very clear , the heavens (in this case the universe) was created first. For our galaxy , the sun and earth (planets) were created ,ie. having day and night. Lastly the earth was populated (or 'spread the earth'). All in scientific sequence.
Ooi tambi , if there is no sun , there will not be any living things. This is basic science. We are not talking about an anti science belief like the bible that states the biblical God created vegetation first then the sun.
You are arguing like a brain fried christian fundamentalist who completely disregard logic and science. I am not surprised though. Biblical Jesus claim to be a man and a messenger of God with biblical proof. Yet you 'die die' claim him to be God without any biblical proof.
You still have not answered the 3 contentions :
(1) the bible has serious scientific contradiction , vegetation created first then sun
(2) who rested on the 7th day? The 'father' or the 'Son' or the 'Holy Spirit'?
(3) Does all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes from
Last edited by sam1528 on 25-11-2013 12:40 AM
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sam1528 posted on 25-11-2013 12:36 AM
Let me repeat the phrase from your post #141
Christians like you believe that you are a carbon ... Let merepeat the phrase from your post #141 "Then God said, “Let us makeman in our image, after our likeness.....
Christians like you believe that you are a carbon copy of your biblical God.You have a penis , don't you? Does your God have a penis? What about viginathen if your biblical God is like a woman? This absurdity is something you needto face because christians like you claim to be a carbon copies of your God.Why are you going ballistics?
I stated in my last post that rested means
Whether God has penis it do not concern me , God is very creative mind . with such greatcreative mind, HE made all via HIS light thru energy . God can be Enuch , kunza (both sex organ) or whatever….what differences does it make… One thing for sure, the God of Bible made earth without sunbut thru HIS light. This to show thatby HIS power all come living things . than came sun , big bang and etc… If sun were to create first, than He is not all powerful since all came FIRST thru sun. There is great mean why HE made plants first. Secondly, it wasHIS idea that humans should go for vegetarian rather than meats..this was theinitial idea but some how man sin and follow their way.. As for quran the allah, it fully can be doubt that thisallah cannot be God of Bible as muslims believe sun created plants…in way ithas downgrade the supreme being power ifwere to think sun energy create plants first instead GOD light bring live toearth..…
Maybe this what muslims need to ponder : 2 Timothy 2:23-26 KingJames Version (KJV) 23 But foolish and unlearnedquestions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord mustnot strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
Meaningyour biblical God became tired or fatigued with his 6 days work. A humanattribute again (remember your God making you in his image). Your biblical God isa weak God.
Exodus31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in sixdays the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and wasrefreshed. A need for rest? No -- "rested"simply means "desisted from exertion", i.e.,stopped what one was doing. The Hebrew word for "rest" (shabath) is used in thecontext ofsomething ceasing or lacking, or in the sense of celebration (seeLev. 2:13;23:32; the Greek in Heb. 4:4 has similar meaning.) freshed"literally means "breathed"-- this word is used only 3 times in theOT, once in reference to people on the Sabbath (Ex. 23:12) and once at 2 Sam.16:14, "And the king, and all thepeople that were with him, came weary,and refreshed themselves there." Does itmean one needs a nap? Only if the context demands it, as in the latter case.The word actually suggests more of a sense of satisfaction as derived from acooling air, as is appropos for the seventhday (Gen. 1:31, And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it wasvery good. -- an evaluation of whatwas before it.) If tiredness was what was at issue, a better word would havebeen ravach, or "breathefreely." Is. 1:14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: theyare a trouble untome; I am weary to bear them. Even byitself, it's hard to see how this wouldgive any idea that God was physicallytired, and the word bears it out:it is la'ah, meaning disgusted. (Thisword is also used in Jer. 15:6.) Harder isthis one: Is. 43:24Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hastthou filled me withthe fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to servewith thy sins, thouhast wearied me with thine iniquities. This timeit is yaga, but there's a poeticpoint to make, though not what Skepticsmight expect. This ismade in counter-point to Is. 43:23,"Thou hast not brought me the smallcattle of thy burnt offerings; neitherhast thou honoured me with thysacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve withan offering, nor weariedthee with incense." 43:24 is a rhetoricalhyperbole, making the point thatnone of God's demands upon the people were thesort to wear them out, and Godcounterpointing -- with heavy sarcasm --"No, you have worn me outwith your sins." This is apowerful indictment in light of that God said in40:28 that he does not get weary.
weary
ˈwɪəri/
adjective
adjective: weary; comparative adjective: wearier; superlativeadjective: weariest
1.
feeling or showing extreme tiredness, especially as a result of excessiveexertion
I have caught you again and again trying to lie using theKJV (or Gay-J-V) bible and tying it to the so called 'lucifer'. Only the KJVtranslation has the word 'lucifer'. KJV is actually a translation from theVulgate (latin bible). Therefore its a translation is from secondary sourceLatin not Koine Greek. You are just appealing to a conspiracy theory aboutsatan or 'lucifer' in isa14. Dan Wallace , a professor of New Testament Studies atDallas Theological Seminary has the following to say about this conspiracytheory of the so called fall of 'lucifer' :
All the translation claimed same. You need tounderstand lHow you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,sonof the morning!. Secondly you not a Bible scholar. Here, the prophet identifies theking of Babylon as Lucifer, son ofthe morning. Some debate if Luciferis a name or a title; the word means morning star or daystar, referring to a brightly shining object in the heavens. Whether it isa title or a name makes little difference; this once brightly shining king ofBabylon is now fallen from heaven. i.The prophetic habit of speaking to both a near and a distant fulfillment, theprophet will sometimes speak more to the near or more to thedistant. Here is a good example of Isaiah speaking more to the distant,ultimate fulfillment. It is true that the king of literal Babylon shinedbrightly among the men of his day, and fell as hard and as completely as if aman were to fall from heaven. But there was a farmore brightly shining being who inhabited heaven, and fell even moredramatically - the king of spiritual Babylon, Satan.
You still never answer :
1. did dinasours mention in quran? The Bible has dinasours name and how it come to destroyed...the quran none...
2. why ur allah the all knowing need to create good and evil ?...the jinn...
3. how the earth created? sun first? Than allah is not god since sun came first…
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Truth.8 posted on 25-11-2013 10:45 AM
Whether God has penis it do not concern me , God is very creative mind . with such greatcreative mind, HE made all via HIS light thru energy . God can be Enuch , kunza (both sex organ) or whatever….what differences does it make… One thing for sure, the God of Bible made earth without sunbut thru HIS light. This to show thatby HIS power all come living things . than came sun , big bang and etc… If sun were to create first, than He is not all powerful since all came FIRST thru sun. There is great mean why HE made plants first. Secondly, it wasHIS idea that humans should go for vegetarian rather than meats..this was theinitial idea but some how man sin and follow their way.. As for quran the allah, it fully can be doubt that thisallah cannot be God of Bible as muslims believe sun created plants…in way ithas downgrade the supreme being power ifwere to think sun energy create plants first instead GOD light bring live toearth..…
Maybe this what muslims need to ponder : 2 Timothy 2:23-26 KingJames Version (KJV) 23 But foolish and unlearnedquestions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24 And the servant of the Lord mustnot strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
Your lack of intelligence is really letting you down.
It is imperative that there is a distinction between God and humans (his creation). You Christians claim that you are carbon copies of your God. That means what attributes that you have , your God has it. If your God has penis or vigina (human attribute) , it means that in luk1:36 , your God in the 'holy spirit' actually raped biblical Mary , it being a physical action. This absolute silliness and insulting.
Ha ha , muslims believe that the sun created plants? Are you out of your mind? You are so desperate that you are willing to just lie for the sake of it. Like I stated , for the creation of the universe and the earth and it being populated , the sequence that Allah did is inline with the current cosmology and science. There is no such nonsense that vegetation created first before the sun like in the bible. This is hogwash. You have no other way to respond except stating about the power of God. This is just brain fried Christian fundamentalism answering. Kind of like leaving behind all logic and reasoning. Your biblical God ignorant of science?
You are so ignorant. The phenomenon of the Big Bang is the one that got the universe into motion. The sun came after that occurance not before per your understanding and belief / faith (refer to the underlined). Living things came after the sun was in place. The correct sequence should be big bang -> sun -> living things not living things -> sun -> big bang per your faith / belief. Do you now know why people are leaving Christianity in droves?
Exodus31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in sixdays the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and wasrefreshed.
A need for rest? No -- "rested"simply means "desisted from exertion", i.e.,stopped what one was doing. The Hebrew word for "rest" (shabath) is used in thecontext ofsomething ceasing or lacking, or in the sense of celebration (seeLev. 2:13;23:32; the Greek in Heb. 4:4 has similar meaning.)
freshed"literally means "breathed"-- this word is used only 3 times in theOT, once in reference to people on the Sabbath (Ex. 23:12) and once at 2 Sam.16:14, "And the king, and all thepeople that were with him, came weary,and refreshed themselves there."
Does itmean one needs a nap? Only if the context demands it, as in the latter case.The word actually suggests more of a sense of satisfaction as derived from acooling air, as is appropos for the seventhday (Gen. 1:31, And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it wasvery good. -- an evaluation of whatwas before it.) If tiredness was what was at issue, a better word would havebeen ravach, or "breathefreely."
Is. 1:14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: theyare a trouble untome; I am weary to bear them.
Even byitself, it's hard to see how this wouldgive any idea that God was physicallytired, and the word bears it out:it is la'ah, meaning disgusted. (Thisword is also used in Jer. 15:6.)
Harder isthis one:
Is. 43:24Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hastthou filled me withthe fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to servewith thy sins, thouhast wearied me with thine iniquities.
This timeit is yaga, but there's a poeticpoint to make, though not what Skepticsmight expect.
This ismade in counter-point to Is. 43:23,"Thou hast not brought me the smallcattle of thy burnt offerings; neitherhast thou honoured me with thysacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve withan offering, nor weariedthee with incense." 43:24 is a rhetoricalhyperbole, making the point thatnone of God's demands upon the people were thesort to wear them out, and Godcounterpointing -- with heavy sarcasm --"No, you have worn me outwith your sins."
This is apowerful indictment in light of that God said in40:28 that he does not get weary.
weary
ˈwɪəri/
adjective
adjective: weary; comparative adjective: wearier; superlativeadjective: weariest
1.
feeling or showing extreme tiredness, especially as a result of excessiveexertion
You are not challenging my response. You know why? You actually do not know what you are talking about. The hebrew word here is 'shavath' (שאר) which means 'rest / lie down / ease / repose'. All have the meaning of recovering from tiredness or fatigue. If the sentence is to mean just stopped from doing something , it would not have stated that your biblical God took a rest. It would just state your biblical God stopped. There are no 2 ways about it , your biblical God took a rest because he was tired. A God became tired? This is absolute nonsense.
All the translation claimed same. You need tounderstand lHow you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,sonof the morning!. Secondly you not a Bible scholar.
Here, the prophet identifies theking of Babylon as Lucifer, son ofthe morning. Some debate if Luciferis a name or a title; the word means morning star or daystar, referring to a brightly shining object in the heavens. Whether it isa title or a name makes little difference; this once brightly shining king ofBabylon is now fallen from heaven.
i.The prophetic habit of speaking to both a near and a distant fulfillment, theprophet will sometimes speak more to the near or more to thedistant. Here is a good example of Isaiah speaking more to the distant,ultimate fulfillment. It is true that the king of literal Babylon shinedbrightly among the men of his day, and fell as hard and as completely as if aman were to fall from heaven. But there was a farmore brightly shining being who inhabited heaven, and fell even moredramatically - the king of spiritual Babylon, Satan.
Bzzzzt! Wrong again. Only the KJV (or Gay-J-V) and its similar , render isa14:12 to be 'lucifer'. Other translations like NIV , NRSV , American Std Bible do not have such translation. In fact , 'Lucifer' is just a transliteration from the vulgate. I am not a bible scholar but Prof Wallace is a world reknown bible scholar and (per my last post) he is in the opinion that such argument is just a conspiracy theory and is wrong. Isa14:12 is about the Babylon King not 'Lucifer' whom you 'die die' believe to be the devil. These are just old wives tales. Why are you trying to argue your case based on some old wives tales? The very least I expect you , being a Christian to refer to bible scholars but you are only capable of referring to conspiracy theories. However we muslims are the ones who actually refer to actual bible scholars in our argument. Isn't this embarrassing for you?
It cannot be a prophecy. This is because per your belief / argument , 'lucifer' was already cast down before mankind - meaning these already happened before mankind or in this case before the reign of the said King of Babylon.
You still never answer :
1. did dinasours mention in quran? The Bible has dinasours name and how it come to destroyed...the quran none...
2. why ur allah the all knowing need to create good and evil ?...the jinn...
3. how the earth created? sun first? Than allah is not god since sun came first…
You are not challenging the answers. This is because you don't actually know what you are talking about. If you lack the intelligence to think critically , just admit it. Can you start challenging the answers? I copy paste again the answers -
Simple answers from muslims
(1) Dinosaurs is a modern term ~ 200 yrs ago. The Quran mention them being 'dabbatin' or creatures per Quran31:10 (sahih international)
He created the heavens without pillars that you see and has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with you, and dispersed therein from every creature...
What is the issue here? The Quran does not mention how the dinoasurs were destroyed. It certainly was not due to the war in heaven where you claim your biblical God destroyed the earth. When the earth was destroyed - no more earth. Yor God had to create a new earth therefore there won't be any fossils of dinosaurs. Science have proven the bible to be wrong.
(2) Allah create humans and jinns to worship him (Quran51:56) per my post#128. Humans and Jinns have free will meaning we can choose whether to worship or rebel against Allah as these creations will have 'nafs'. This makes logical sense. In the end , those obedient to Allah would be rewarded and the others be punished. It does not make sense for angels to have free will per your claim. That makes them unpredictable. Its just an accident waiting to happen. What is there to prevent Angel Michael to join forces with the so called 'lucifer' tomorrow and another 'war in heaven' breaks out? Until now you cannot answer.
(3) The beginning of the universe has been explained well in the Quran rather than the bible. The explanation in the Quran is inline with the current cosmology. Singularity and the expansion. Quran21:30 (sahih international)
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing?
The current understanding :
According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density
The Quran states that the universe is always expanding , Quran51:47 (sahih international)
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Expanding universeThe fate of the universe is determined by a struggle between the momentum of expansion and the pull of gravity. The rate of expansion is expressed by the Hubble Constant, Ho, while the strength of gravity depends on the density and pressure of the matter in the universe
As whether the sun or earth was created first , I requote my post#123 :
The creation of the universe in the Quran is inline science (unlike the bible , vegetation/ earth was created first then the sun) : quran79:27-30 (sahih international)
27. Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.
28. He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.
29. And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.
30. And after that He spread the earth.
It is very clear , the heavens (in this case the universe) was created first. For our galaxy , the sun and earth (planets) were created ,ie. having day and night. Lastly the earth was populated (or 'spread the earth'). All in scientific sequence. Nobody stated tha the sun came before Allah. You must be drunk. The sun is part of our solar system and part of the universe.
Ooi tambi , if there is no sun , there will not be any living things. This is basic science. We are not talking about an anti science belief like the bible that states the biblical God created vegetation first then the sun.
You are arguing like a brain fried christian fundamentalist who completely disregard logic and science. I am not surprised though. Biblical Jesus claim to be a man and a messenger of God with biblical proof. Yet you 'die die' claim him to be God without any biblical proof.
You still have not answered the 3 contentions :
(1) the bible has serious scientific contradiction , vegetation created first then sun
(2) who rested on the 7th day? The 'father' or the 'Son' or the 'Holy Spirit'?
(3) Does all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes from
Last edited by sam1528 on 25-11-2013 01:22 PM
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sam1528 posted on 25-11-2013 01:12 PM
Your lack of intelligence is really letting you down.
It is imperative that there is a distinct ... All have the meaning of recovering from tiredness or fatigue.
why you so stupid and pretending to be clever.
surly God need to stop since the creations is completed and rested....do u understand this simple things? or u pretending?
simple things like this do not understand...maybe i dont blame u...islam has made u thinks such
3) The beginning of the universe has been explained well in the Quran rather than the bible. The explanation in the Quran is inline with the current cosmology. Singularity and the expansion. Quran21:30 (sahih international)
In Bible it explained well...dark and void...God as light moving towards it and create plants....
The Bible and Science AgreeScientists down through time have often erred in matters of science. But not the Holy Bible - which has been shown to be scientifically accurate. While the Bible is not primarily a science text, many scientific matters are mentioned in passing; and when mentioned - they later are shown to be accurate!
| Scientists Used toBelieve | But Now Science Shows | The Bible Always Said | | Only between one thousand and twelve hundred stars in the whole universe. | Trillions upon trillions of stars; they cannot be counted by man! | Jeremiah 33:22a "As the host of heaven cannot be numbered..." | | The Earth is flat. | The Earth is round. | Isaiah 40:22a "It is he that sits upon the circle ofthe earth..." | | Light does not move, it is just there. | Light moves - and has physical properties; "light waves" or photons. | Job 38:19a "Where is the way where light dwells? ..." | | The Steady State Theory, the stars are just out there. | Each star is unique, and two of the star constellations have gravitationalbinding. | Job 38:31 "Can you bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, orloose the bands of Orion?" | | Bad blood should be bled out, to make a person well. | Blood is vital to life, sometimes a transfusion is needed to add blood. | Leviticus 17:11a "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:..." | | Air has no weight, it is just there. | Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon-dioxide have respective atomic weights thatcan be measured. | Job 28:25a "To make the weight for the winds..." | | Winds blow straight across the Earth. | Air currents move in large circular patterns. | Ecclesiastes 1:6b "... and the wind returns again according tohis circuits." | | The Earth is carried on someone's back. | The Earth floats free in space. | Job 26:7b "... and hangs the earth upon nothing." | | People just get sick; hand washing is not important. | Many diseases spread by contact; wash your hands in running water. | Leviticus 15:13b "... and wash his clothes, and bathe his fleshin running water..." | | The stars are all similar to each other. | Each and every star is actually unique. | I Corinthians 15:41b "...for one star differs from another starin glory." | | Something from nothing for no reason - "The Big Bang" model - poof,look a universe! | Every action has an equal and opposite reaction; that is real science. Cause and effect; input is needed to make output. | Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and theearth." |
While the Greek scientist Claudius Ptolemy (c. 150 A.D.) was smart healso mistakenly taught that the rest of the universe revolves around theEarth. Wrong. But you see, scientists then believed that for overone thousand years. The scientists taught that the universe revolvesaround the Earth; and they convinced other educated men too, like theircontemporary European church-state leaders. (The Bible does not teachthat at all.) It was actually the consensus of scientists who werewrong and the scientists later convinced others to also stand against Copernicusand Galileo, around 1600 A.D. Galileo showed that - for over onethousand years - that belief by scientists was wrong.
Galileo is not an example of religion vs. science, but rather the "Galileoepisode" is an example of the consensus of scientists being wrong, andthey had convinced others as well - who then believed wrongly.
Religion can be good when it brings us closer to the truth.
Science too can be good when it brings us closer to the truth.
Scientists though, being human, are sometimes wrong, like the scientistswere in Galileo's day. Remember, it was the scientists who were wrong,and they had convinced others that the rest of the universe (sic) revolvesaround the Earth.
Remember that scientists used to co-mingle astrology with astronomy. And scientists used to co-mingle alchemy with chemistry, fooling many. So while the scientists are often wrong about science down through time,the Bible though remains consistent, and accurate. Today evolutionists co-mingle their beliefs with that of scientists, even though real science shows that evolution cannot possibly be true. But the Bible has told us the truth about our origins all along. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
The evolutionary scientists are wrong about science once again; and the Bible will be shown to be still accurate and true.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 25-11-2013 04:32 PM
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Truth.8 posted on 22-11-2013 08:00 PM
adakah ibis jinn mempunyai niat jahat?? dari mana dtg niat jahat ini??
ibis saya tak tahu, tak pernah dengar. maaf.
jinn? Jinn di ciptakan oleh Allah untuk menyembah Allah, maka mereka diberi akal dan nafsu. maka, dgn nafsu itulah datangnya niat2 jahat. It makes a lot of sense to us.
Now, my question is still unanswered by you :
1. Malaikat SEMUA LELAKI -- ini sudah di jawab. Thank you for the answer. harap kau tak pusing2 dgn jawapan kepada soalan ini.
2. Malaikat datang kepada MANUSIA PEREMPUAN DAN KEMUDIAN DAPAT ANAK. - BELUM TERJAWAB OLEH TRUTH.8
3. Anak2 ini adalah 'imighty men' or 'men of reknowned'. - BELUM TERJAWAB OLEH TRUTH.8
Nah, video tu sendiri cakap mende ni. Macam mana malaikat boleh datang ke perempuan dari golongan manusia kemudian tiba2 ada anak pulak? Video tu salah ke, macam mana? (rujuk minit ke 2:30 onwards kat dalam video yang Truth.8 on post #61)
btw, dalam video tu kata, Lucifer turned away from God because of HIS PRIDE. He have REBELLION IN HIS HEART.
Now, PRIDE TU DATANG DARI MANA? Adakah SEMUA MALAIKAT BOLEH ADA PRIDE?????
Pride tu datang dari mana? Adakah malaikat boleh ada pride? What about the current angels? Can the current angels have pride? Can there be another 'Lucifer' up in the heaven? IF yes, why? If NO, why?
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Truth.8 posted on 23-11-2013 05:04 PM
here we go again with muslims dump head either they knew or just pretending...
in my topic ...
so, now you're admitting that angels have 'hearts'?
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thank you bro @sam1528 for following up my question with Truth.8,which, sadly, he didn't answer. Worst, he tried to lie to us about the content of the Bible and use the Bible's content to justify his words (instead of following the Bible, Truth.8 make the Bible follow his words, which was exposed by brother @sam1528)
@Truth.8, please answer the question with truthfulness and use the correct context of the Bible, not applying the Bible verses to your own needs.
I'm intrigue by bro @sam1528's question, what stops the angel Michael from dealing with Lucifer and try to overthrown The Creator? |
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gunblade712 posted on 25-11-2013 04:24 PM
so, now you're admitting that angels have 'hearts'?
Have you bother to read it ? yes ..
The Bible and Science AgreeScientists down through time have often erred in matters of science. But not the Holy Bible - which has been shown to be scientifically accurate. While the Bible is not primarily a science text, many scientific matters are mentioned in passing; and when mentioned - they later are shown to be accurate!
| Scientists Used toBelieve | But Now Science Shows | The Bible Always Said | | Only between one thousand and twelve hundred stars in the whole universe. | Trillions upon trillions of stars; they cannot be counted by man! | Jeremiah 33:22a "As the host of heaven cannot be numbered..." | | The Earth is flat. | The Earth is round. | Isaiah 40:22a "It is he that sits upon the circle ofthe earth..." | | Light does not move, it is just there. | Light moves - and has physical properties; "light waves" or photons. | Job 38:19a "Where is the way where light dwells? ..." | | The Steady State Theory, the stars are just out there. | Each star is unique, and two of the star constellations have gravitationalbinding. | Job 38:31 "Can you bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, orloose the bands of Orion?" | | Bad blood should be bled out, to make a person well. | Blood is vital to life, sometimes a transfusion is needed to add blood. | Leviticus 17:11a "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:..." | | Air has no weight, it is just there. | Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon-dioxide have respective atomic weights thatcan be measured. | Job 28:25a "To make the weight for the winds..." | | Winds blow straight across the Earth. | Air currents move in large circular patterns. | Ecclesiastes 1:6b "... and the wind returns again according tohis circuits." | | The Earth is carried on someone's back. | The Earth floats free in space. | Job 26:7b "... and hangs the earth upon nothing." | | People just get sick; hand washing is not important. | Many diseases spread by contact; wash your hands in running water. | Leviticus 15:13b "... and wash his clothes, and bathe his fleshin running water..." | | The stars are all similar to each other. | Each and every star is actually unique. | I Corinthians 15:41b "...for one star differs from another starin glory." | | Something from nothing for no reason - "The Big Bang" model - poof,look a universe! | Every action has an equal and opposite reaction; that is real science. Cause and effect; input is needed to make output. | Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and theearth." |
While the Greek scientist Claudius Ptolemy (c. 150 A.D.) was smart healso mistakenly taught that the rest of the universe revolves around theEarth. Wrong. But you see, scientists then believed that for overone thousand years. The scientists taught that the universe revolvesaround the Earth; and they convinced other educated men too, like theircontemporary European church-state leaders. (The Bible does not teachthat at all.) It was actually the consensus of scientists who werewrong and the scientists later convinced others to also stand against Copernicusand Galileo, around 1600 A.D. Galileo showed that - for over onethousand years - that belief by scientists was wrong.
Galileo is not an example of religion vs. science, but rather the "Galileoepisode" is an example of the consensus of scientists being wrong, andthey had convinced others as well - who then believed wrongly.
Religion can be good when it brings us closer to the truth.
Science too can be good when it brings us closer to the truth.
Scientists though, being human, are sometimes wrong, like the scientistswere in Galileo's day. Remember, it was the scientists who were wrong,and they had convinced others that the rest of the universe (sic) revolvesaround the Earth.
Remember that scientists used to co-mingle astrology with astronomy. And scientists used to co-mingle alchemy with chemistry, fooling many. So while the scientists are often wrong about science down through time,the Bible though remains consistent, and accurate. Today evolutionists co-mingle their beliefs with that of scientists, even though real science shows that evolution cannot possibly be true. But the Bible has told us the truth about our origins all along. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
The evolutionary scientists are wrong about science once again; and the Bible will be shown to be still accurate and true.
Last edited by Truth.8 on 25-11-2013 04:35 PM
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Truth.8 posted on 25-11-2013 04:33 PM
Have you bother to read it ? yes ..
The Bible and Science AgreeScientists down through time hav ...
That post says nothing about angels having hearts..
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Truth.8 posted on 25-11-2013 03:02 PM
why you so stupid and pretending to be clever.
surly God need to stop since the creations is completed and rested....do u understand this simple things? or u pretending?
simple things like this do not understand...maybe i dont blame u...islam has made u thinks such
So now you are agreeing with me that your biblical God needed a rest? Then you agree that your biblical God was tired (a human attribute). What absurdity is this?
In Bible it explained well...dark and void...God as light moving towards it and create plants....
The Bible and Science AgreeScientists down through time have often erred in matters of science. But not the Holy Bible - which has been shown to be scientifically accurate. While the Bible is not primarily a science text, many scientific matters are mentioned in passing; and when mentioned - they later are shown to be accurate!
Scientists Used toBelieve But Now Science Shows The Bible Always Said
Only between one thousand and twelve hundred stars in the whole universe. Trillions upon trillions of stars; they cannot be counted by man! Jeremiah 33:22a "As the host of heaven cannot be numbered..."
The Earth is flat. The Earth is round. Isaiah 40:22a "It is he that sits upon the circle ofthe earth..."
Light does not move, it is just there. Light moves - and has physical properties; "light waves" or photons. Job 38:19a "Where is the way where light dwells? ..."
The Steady State Theory, the stars are just out there. Each star is unique, and two of the star constellations have gravitationalbinding. Job 38:31 "Can you bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, orloose the bands of Orion?"
Bad blood should be bled out, to make a person well. Blood is vital to life, sometimes a transfusion is needed to add blood. Leviticus 17:11a "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:..."
Air has no weight, it is just there. Oxygen, nitrogen, carbon-dioxide have respective atomic weights thatcan be measured. Job 28:25a "To make the weight for the winds..."
Winds blow straight across the Earth. Air currents move in large circular patterns. Ecclesiastes 1:6b "... and the wind returns again according tohis circuits."
The Earth is carried on someone's back. The Earth floats free in space. Job 26:7b "... and hangs the earth upon nothing."
People just get sick; hand washing is not important. Many diseases spread by contact; wash your hands in running water. Leviticus 15:13b "... and wash his clothes, and bathe his fleshin running water..."
The stars are all similar to each other. Each and every star is actually unique. I Corinthians 15:41b "...for one star differs from another starin glory."
Something from nothing for no reason - "The Big Bang" model - poof,look a universe! Every action has an equal and opposite reaction; that is real science. Cause and effect; input is needed to make output. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and theearth."
While the Greek scientist Claudius Ptolemy (c. 150 A.D.) was smart healso mistakenly taught that the rest of the universe revolves around theEarth. Wrong. But you see, scientists then believed that for overone thousand years. The scientists taught that the universe revolvesaround the Earth; and they convinced other educated men too, like theircontemporary European church-state leaders. (The Bible does not teachthat at all.) It was actually the consensus of scientists who werewrong and the scientists later convinced others to also stand against Copernicusand Galileo, around 1600 A.D. Galileo showed that - for over onethousand years - that belief by scientists was wrong.
Galileo is not an example of religion vs. science, but rather the "Galileoepisode" is an example of the consensus of scientists being wrong, andthey had convinced others as well - who then believed wrongly.
Religion can be good when it brings us closer to the truth.
Science too can be good when it brings us closer to the truth.
Scientists though, being human, are sometimes wrong, like the scientistswere in Galileo's day. Remember, it was the scientists who were wrong,and they had convinced others that the rest of the universe (sic) revolvesaround the Earth.
Remember that scientists used to co-mingle astrology with astronomy. And scientists used to co-mingle alchemy with chemistry, fooling many. So while the scientists are often wrong about science down through time,the Bible though remains consistent, and accurate. Today evolutionists co-mingle their beliefs with that of scientists, even though real science shows that evolution cannot possibly be true. But the Bible has told us the truth about our origins all along. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
The evolutionary scientists are wrong about science once again; and the Bible will be shown to be still accurate and true.
A long post with irrelevant issues but not addressing the 3 contentions :
(1) the bible has serious scientific contradiction , vegetation created first then sun
(2) who rested on the 7th day? The 'father' or the 'Son' or the 'Holy Spirit'?
(3) Do all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes from
BTW if the earth is like a circle per the bible , this is how it looks like
Is the earth 2 Dimension or 3 Dimension?
Last edited by sam1528 on 26-11-2013 01:19 PM
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gunblade712 posted on 26-11-2013 12:00 PM
That post says nothing about angels having hearts..
Gb,,,please read with open heart....I guaranteed....u will find the path and truth.....God only touch his peoples if one were to sincere and honest...once that calling done....there is no turning back...
I received pm that one ex muslims believed in Christ yet he made it very discreet ..
simple...even if ex muslim hold islam name and die as islam...the faith will be Christ followers because it is Faith that count in eyes of GOD ....if one were to believed in Christ and Bible
Amen
Last edited by Truth.8 on 26-11-2013 01:53 PM
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sam1528 posted on 26-11-2013 01:17 PM
So now you are agreeing with me that your biblical God needed a rest? Then you agree that your bib ...
already answered...if u have problem understanding...get good teacher to educate 
Is the earth 2 Dimension or 3 Dimension?
Did Bible writers believe the Earth was flat?  
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|  No, this false idea is not taught in Scripture.
Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the “four corners” of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the “language of appearance,” just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. [DD]
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. [DD]
A literal translation of Job 26:10 is “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.” A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22—“the circle of the earth.”
Note, the Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”
“The Earth a Sphere—Certain astronomical relations were recognized very early. The stars appear as if attached to a globe rotating round the earth once in 24 hours, and this appearance was clearly familiar to the author of the Book of Job, and indeed long before the time of Abraham, since the formation of the constellations could not have been effected without such recognition. But the spherical form of the heavens almost involves a similar form for the earth, and their apparent diurnal rotation certainly means that they are not rigidly connected with the earth, but surround it on all sides at some distance from it. The earth therefore must be freely suspended in space, and so the Book of Job describes it: ‘He stretcheth out the north over empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing’ (Job 26:7).” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)]
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]
The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]
Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth “within 50 miles of the present estimate.” [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]
The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]
The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, “In that day,” then in verse 34, “In that night.” This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]
It is also interesting to note that there are 16 scriptures which refer to God stretching out the heavens. These are remarkable confirmations that the Bible is true, as we know today that the heavens are rapidly expanding. [TH]
“When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.”
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Last edited by Truth.8 on 26-11-2013 01:50 PM
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Truth.8 posted on 26-11-2013 01:49 PM
already answered...if u have problem understanding...get good teacher to educate
...
No you didn't answer. Rest means stopping work because one is tired. You tried to explain that rest in this case is to stop work and celebrate. You are bull shitting again.
Did Bible writers believe the Earth was flat?
See this page in: German
No, this false idea is not taught in Scripture.
Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the “four corners” of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the “language of appearance,” just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. [DD]
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. [DD]
A literal translation of Job 26:10 is “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.” A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22—“the circle of the earth.”
Note, the Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”
“The Earth a Sphere—Certain astronomical relations were recognized very early. The stars appear as if attached to a globe rotating round the earth once in 24 hours, and this appearance was clearly familiar to the author of the Book of Job, and indeed long before the time of Abraham, since the formation of the constellations could not have been effected without such recognition. But the spherical form of the heavens almost involves a similar form for the earth, and their apparent diurnal rotation certainly means that they are not rigidly connected with the earth, but surround it on all sides at some distance from it. The earth therefore must be freely suspended in space, and so the Book of Job describes it: ‘He stretcheth out the north over empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing’ (Job 26:7).” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)]
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]
The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]
Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth “within 50 miles of the present estimate.” [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]
The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]
The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, “In that day,” then in verse 34, “In that night.” This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]
It is also interesting to note that there are 16 scriptures which refer to God stretching out the heavens. These are remarkable confirmations that the Bible is true, as we know today that the heavens are rapidly expanding. [TH]
“When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.”
Circle is 2 dimensional
Sphere is 3 dimensional.
Your bible describe the earth to be a circle which is 2 dimensional. Is the earth 2 dimensional or 3 dimensional? 4 corners of the earth means that the earth is not round in shape. However you tried to force the meaning to be the compass directions. Then it should be 4 directions no 4 corners.
You still have not answered the 3 contentions :
(1) the bible has serious scientific contradiction , vegetation created first then sun
(2) who rested on the 7th day? The 'father' or the 'Son' or the 'Holy Spirit'?
(3) Do all of the angels have arrogance/pride? Where does this arrogance and pride comes from
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sam1528 posted on 26-11-2013 05:51 PM
No you didn't answer. Rest means stopping work because one is tired. You tried to explain that res ... No you didn't answer. Rest means stopping work because one is tired. You tried to explain that rest in this case is to stop work and celebrate. You are bull shitting again.
I can even tell my friend :
friends: why we need to observed saturday( sabbath)
Truth.8 : God created 6 days and 7 day rested ..hence we need work 6 days and rest on 7 day . on this day we remember HIM for creating the earth , praise and worshipped HIM
That is reason why GOD ceased work and rested 7th day ....Is not GOD tired but showing us a example how humans should work, rest and worshipped HIM this day called Sabbath to remember HIM...
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I wonder, why do u guys need to debate referring to the Bible, whereas it is widely known Bible is NOT the word of God, it is the word of MAN due to the current Bible is ALTERED. With so many versions, initially being a translation (in brackets just like this), then after a few years the brackets is gone, where the initial translation is now considered as word of God? I dont see on the Bible cover saying "Written by God, edited by Man.".  This is blasphemy, and Christianity is a faith that is lost from its way, and if it does find its true way, all Christian will convert to Islam, as it is an outdated faith.
If you wanna talk about Science based on the bible, lets talk about this. I quote from Genesis 1:16, New International Version (Or whatever version the bible have)
"God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Genesis 1:16
You are saying the bible proves what science proves. Explain this. According to Science, the Sun does emits its own light. And the Moon only reflects the Sun's light. BUT according to your Bible, GOD made TWO great lights, the Sun and the Moon. How does the Moon emits its own light?
And also, referring to Genesis; God made Earth on the 3rd day, and made the Sun, Moon and Stars on the 4th day. To my surprise how illogical bible is; God had made the Earth on the third day, and he saw that it was good. And he made the land to produce vegetation, and fruits, and seeds, and he saw that it was good. THEN only on the fourth day he made the Sun? And also what does the Earth resolves around if theres is no Sun in the first place? Anyways;
Now tell me, my good friend, how illogical it is for plants and trees to grow if there is no Sun? Sorry but Im no scientist, but can u check with a botanist wether if he or she can grow a plant in a dark room without sunlight? Before u answer, I assume your answer will be "Oh, one cannot question the act of God." or "God can make whatever he wills.". Then let me tell you, your god is not that good with science.
An also, an illogical God is not a God. As Allah had made everything logical, especially with science, unless he deems so and unless he says certain matters are not for Man to think of or judge or ponder upon, such as fate. And in this matter Man is only to make his own effort and pray the best to Allah for the result. As He is always fair and merciful.
Oh and please, do not deviate from my question as u did from your other topic? TQ |
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Kita dah tengok dunia pernah menjalani Zaman Kegelapan walaupun pada ketika itu telah ada kitab Injil. Jika Injil tu dah sempurna maka mengapa manusia perlu melalui Zaman Kegelapan itu? Megapa setelah Nabi Muhammad saw lahir dan membawa ajaran Islam dari Kitab al-Quran maka barulah dunia kembali kepada zaman kegemilangannya? Maka jangan menidakkan sumbangan para ilmuan Islam pada waktu itu yang sehingga kini ilmunya digunakan oleh dunia sehingga kini. Tiadalah orang kristian ini membawa kebenaran kerana mereka pernah berdebat kaw-kaw dengan orang Islam bahawa kononnya dunia akan kiamat pada tahun 2000 dulu. Tapi lihat saja buktinya... sehingga kini bumi tetap berputar... tidakkah itu bukti jelas bahawa ajaran kristian ini tidak benar dan hanya disokong oleh orang-orang yang tertipu dan menipu? Last edited by ct_og on 27-11-2013 08:33 AM
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aimaniac posted on 27-11-2013 03:36 AM
I wonder, why do u guys need to debate referring to the Bible, whereas it is widely known Bible is N ...
same goes is ur quran from god?
google it and or visit faithfreedom
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Author
Post time 24-11-2013 06:46 PM
