Bila agama dijual?........

Acong

Here in body, gone in mind
Posted by Raja Petra   
Wednesday, 13 February 2008

No, legislation and laws are not what we need. What we need are Muslims setting good examples to prove that Islam is everything they say it is. Only then would Muslims not want to leave Islam. Instead non-Muslims would become Muslims in droves. At the moment, though, I can't see that happening, not in 100 years.

NO HOLDS BARRED
Raja Petra Kamarudin

Converts to Islam can change their minds, Egyptian court rules
Cairo, February 11, 2008

In a landmark case, an Egyptian court has ruled that the state must recognise the right of Christians who convert to Islam to change their minds and revert to Christianity.

While Egyptian law is largely secular, personal status issues such as conversion, marriage and divorce are governed by the religious laws of the relevant community.

Egypt is primarily Muslim but has a substantial Coptic Christian minority.

Saturday's ruling by the Supreme Administrative Court said 12 people who had converted to Islam from Christianity and back again could have their reversion to their original faith stated on their government identity papers.

The court ruling, which overturned a lower court decision in April, now obliges the Ministry of the Interior to issue the plaintiffs with birth certificates and identity papers identifying them as Christians.

"This opens the door of hope to hundreds of Copts who converted

Acong

Let me paint a hypothetical situation. Say I was born a Muslim. I learned to recite the Quran at a very tender age and by puberty I was already praying five times a day. I even performed my pilgrimage to Mekah, a couple of times in fact, and practically did everything that a Muslim is supposed to do, at least as far as rituals are concerned.

Then, later in life, I decided I would like to educate myself on what the other religions are all about. Being not of these religions I was therefore free to roam the realms of the other religions and not confine myself to any specific doctrine. I was intrigued that the Quran says we are all followers of the religion of Abraham. Be it Jew, Christian or Muslim, you are all followers of Abraham. Are you therefore a Jew or Christian and I, a Muslim, or are we all 'Abrahamites', but of various sects that have been labelled Orthodox Jew, Samaritan, Hasidic, Haredi, Catholic, Coptic, Greek Orthodox, Adventist, Anabaptist, Baptist, Congregationalist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Reformed, Pentecostal, Anglican, Restorationist, Sunni, Wahabbi, Salafi, Shiah, Ismailiyah, Kharijite, Sufi, Naqshbandi, Bahai, Druze, Ahmadiyya, Nation of Islam, Zikri, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.?

I eventually began to believe that there is only one religion, the religion of God. But humankind decided to compartmentalise itself into various boxes and then posted labels that now run into scores. When did it all start? Where was the beginning? And when did the rot first set in?

Okay, I can accept the argument that, along the way, many Prophets were sent down by God to correct the distortions and deviations to His religion that were perpetuated by mankind throughout the ages. According to Islamic tradition, there were more than 124,000 Messengers and Prophets since the beginning of time. Abraham himself did not introduce a new religion. He just 'reverted' to the original and correct doctrine of the One God. He opposed the many Gods created by humans from stone, metal and wood. And the same went for Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

So, if this is true, then where did Judaism, Christianity, Islam and their numerous sects and sub-sects come from? Only one can be true. They can't all be true. Of course, it could be that they are actually all false and none are true. Humankind does have this bad habit of distorting history. Even the most recent history of Merdeka and the May 13 tragedy have been grossly distorted. What we have been told is not at all what really happened. We have been fed lies upon lies. And Merdeka and May 13 happened in an era when there were still and moving cameras. The evidence is clear. Yet, in spite of this indisputable evidence and the many witnesses still alive who can testify to the truth, they are still able to lie to us, distort the truth, and fool 90% of Malaysians into believing 'their version' of events.

Acong

What about events that happened more than 2,000 years ago in the age before there were any proper records? No doubt, today, records exist in the form of 'holy books'. But when were these books written and who wrote them? Did the Prophets themselves record history in their own handwriting or was history recorded centuries after their deaths by 'hidden' hands? Were these books written as a true reflection of events or were they tailored to justify and strengthen certain beliefs and myths? In other words, was the cart placed after or before the horse?

After pondering over the 'evidence', or lack of it as the case may be, I form an opinion that Judaism, Christianity, Islam and all their numerous sects and sub-sects never came from God but are mere inventions of mankind. This very belief of rejecting 'organised' religion causes me to 'leave' religion. How would Muslims deal with this?

I never renounce Islam. I never ask to leave Islam to become a Christian, or whatever. In fact, I now don't believe in any religion. I officially still remain a Muslim though. But because of my very belief that religions do not exist but were mere creations and distortions of mankind, this causes me to have left not only Islam but religion itself. How would Muslims deal with this?

You can prevent Muslims from leaving Islam if they do so openly. You can pass laws making it a crime or even sentence apostates to death. But for every one Muslim who openly leaves Islam, thousands or tens of thousands more 'leave' Islam secretly. They do not wish to make their exit official. But Islam has left their hearts so they have therefore left Islam. And it is not just Islam that they have left. They have abandoned the very concept of organised religion.

You can legislate acts. But you cannot legislate thoughts or beliefs. What is in the mind of an individual only that individual, plus God, knows. You can't get into the minds of individuals to scan their thoughts. If they act out their belief then you could probably suspect what they are thinking. But if they act opposite to what they believe then not even their own parents would be any the wiser.

It is futile to try to legislate belief. If they can't believe openly then they will go underground and believe secretly. Maybe it would be better to focus on setting good examples and win converts through positive acts rather than reinforce their disbelief though negative acts. Persuasion instead of force wins more converts. And proper education and understanding would turn converts into staunch believers. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. You can force a person to remain a Muslim but you can't force that person to believe in the Quran, Muhammad or God. That is a matter of the heart and mind.

Acong

But how do you win the battle of the hearts and minds when the very people who are supposed to uphold the dignity of the religion are instead defiling the religion? If I was a doubter, what I see around me would just confirm my doubts. It would not make me doubt my doubts. It would convince me that I am justified in doubting.

Look at how Muslims act. They scream that Islam is a religion of peace but they preach war. They scream that Islam is a compassionate religion but they preach death. They scream that Islam is a tolerant religion but they condemn kafirs (infidels). They talk about going right but they turn left. That is the greatest disservice these people do to Islam and which not only puts off non-Muslims but even Muslims themselves.

I used to have great respect for imams, gurus, ulamaks and all such people of the cloth. I would go out of my way to be near them and kiss their hands. There is nothing I would not do for them. All they need to do is to open their mouths and consider it done. Money was no obstacle in the way of the Lord. But the closer I got to them, the more I detected hypocrisy. I began to suspect that the 'cloth' they wore was merely a camouflage to fraud and deceive. This is not confined to just Muslims but is apparent in all societies and religions. No doubt there is some good amongst all that bad. There may even be many good amongst just some of the bad. But all it needs is one buffalo to muddy the entire herd.

I personally met a Malay contractor who testified that the imam of the National Mosque (Masjid Negara) demanded a bribe of RM30,000 for a maintenance contract his company was going to be awarded. This contractor showed me documents to convince me he is telling the truth because he realised such a story would be very hard to swallow. This imam eventually joined Umno and contested against Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail in Pematanag Pauh. Another supplier of cleansing chemicals testified that he too had to pay the bilal of the National Mosque a bribe for the items he supplied the mosque. This supplier, a convert to Islam who I had known since school days, was shocked and understandably became very disillusioned with his new-found religion. Can you blame him if he decides to go back to Christianity?

No, legislation and laws are not what we need. What we need are Muslims setting good examples to prove that Islam is everything they say it is. Only then would Muslims not want to leave Islam. Instead non-Muslims would become Muslims in droves. At the moment, though, I can't see that happening, not in 100 years.


http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/2727/46/

ibnur

No, legislation and laws are not what we need. What we need are Muslims setting good examples to prove that Islam is everything they say it is. Only then would Muslims not want to leave Islam. Instead non-Muslims would become Muslims in droves. At the moment, though, I can't see that happening, not in 100 years.

Mana dia tau tu?  dia ada share ke bagi hidayah kat manusia?  

Acong ni rajin betul bawak RPK punya artikel ekk...

thedude

Originally posted by ibnur at 14-2-2008 11:22 PM


Mana dia tau tu?  dia ada share ke bagi hidayah kat manusia?  

Acong ni rajin betul bawak RPK punya artikel ekk...

Tapi ade betulnya kata RPK tuh ... kalau kita tengok balik zaman dulu2 tuh .. masa nabi mula berdakwah ..
yang memeluk Islam tu kerana akhlak dan kasih Rasulullah ... lebih mudah untuk mendekatkan umat kepada agama dengan kaedah-kaedah yang emosional (kasih sayang)  ... berbanding kaedah2 logikal (hukuman, undang2)...

Contohnyer menutup aurat ... kalau nak senang kita boleh aje buat undang2 .. sesiape yang tak tutup aurat .. masuk jel .. tapi cara tu takkan mendekatkan hati mereka kepada agama ... mungkin makin jauh lagi ... masalah tak selesai juga ..
Kalau hati mereka dapat didekatkan dengan agama ... tak payah buat hukuman pon mereka akan menutup aurat .. itulah hasil kemanisan iman ...

[ Last edited by  thedude at 15-2-2008 05:47 PM ]

ianho

apakah hukumnya kalau mengatakan yang haram itu halal dan yang halal dipersoalkan . . . yang selalu kita dengar  .. . . . menutup aurat tua dah jelas wajib tapi masih ada yang kata tak perlu bb panas
berkahwin itu hala tapi kenapa terlalu banyak halangan dan prosedur yang perlu dipatuhi sebelum boleh menikah
kenapa begini berlaku di sini kenapa . . . . kenapa

H猷L鰃頧

Acong,
Islam bukan macam confucious, bila nak buat kena buat betul2. Memang la tiada paksaan dalam Islam tapi kalau dah letakkan diri kenalah ikut peraturan. Skarang ni ramai yg bercinta sanggup masuk Islam, bila dah masuk Islam persoal balik hukumhakam, bila dah krisis sibuk2 pulak ndak keluar balik, lepas tu guna 'tiada paksaan' dalam Islam, nah orang macam ni jenis munafik.

orangbesi

salam

memang benar
sepatutnya orang ISLAM harus memberi contoh tauladan yg baik
yg boleh dinilai dan diikuti oleh manusia lainnya

tapi selalunya terbalik memanjang.....
tak apa
maka usaha harus juga diteruskan
terus dan terus
MENASIHATI DAN MEMBERI PERINGATAN
dengan baik berhemah dan lemah lembut
agar manusia kembali kepada fitrah kejadiannya

thedude

Originally posted by ianho at 15-2-2008 03:48 PM
apakah hukumnya kalau mengatakan yang haram itu halal dan yang halal dipersoalkan . . . yang selalu kita dengar  .. . . . menutup aurat tua dah jelas wajib tapi masih ada yang kata tak perlu bb p ...

Prosedur2 nikah yang sedia ade tu tidak mengharamkan yang halal .. atas dasar ape kita nak kata prosedur itu mengharamkan yang halal ? Hari2 orang dok bernikah di M'sia ni .... takde masalah  ...  

ibnur

Betul kata RPK?  Maknanya RPK ni antara orang yg hebat sampai tau siapa dan macamana Allah bagi hidayah?

Macamana pula aya-ayat Allah dalam ALlQuran....

2:142. ......Katakanlah: "Kepunyaan Allah-lah timur dan barat; Dia memberi petunjuk kepada siapa yang dikehendaki-Nya ke jalan yang lurus"

2:170. Dan apabila dikatakan kepada mereka: "Ikutilah apa yang telah diturunkan Allah," mereka menjawab: "(Tidak), tetapi kami hanya mengikuti apa yang telah kami dapati dari (perbuatan) nenek moyang kami".  (Apakah mereka akan mengikuti juga), walaupun nenek moyang mereka itu tidak mengetahui suatu apapun, dan tidak mendapat petunjuk?.

213. Manusia itu adalah umat yang satu. (setelah timbul perselisihan), maka Allah mengutus para nabi, sebagai pemberi peringatan, dan Allah menurunkan bersama mereka Kitab yang benar, untuk memberi keputusan di antara manusia tentang perkara yang mereka perselisihkan. Tidaklah berselisih tentang Kitab itu melainkan orang yang telah didatangkan kepada mereka Kitab, yaitu setelah datang kepada mereka keterangan-keterangan yang nyata, karena dengki antara mereka sendiri. Maka Allah memberi petunjuk orang-orang yang beriman kepada kebenaran tentang hal yang mereka perselisihkann itu dengan kehendak-Nya. Dan Allah selalu memberi petunjuk orang yang dikehendaki-Nya kepada jalan yang lurus.


Yang dlm Quran tu dapat Nabi pun tak dapat hidayah jugak.  Ada sesetengah nabi-nabi sendiri pun tak dapat nak dakwah anak-bini dia orang.  

Ni senang jer RPK cakap orang boleh dpt hidayah kot kalau orang Islam semua baik-baik????  

[ Last edited by  ibnur at 16-2-2008 12:45 AM ]

ianho

kisah benar yang pernah ku alami
menikahkan kakaknya dan dia jadi wali dan cukup syarat lain
tapi tak melalui pejabat agama
lalu diputuskan tak sah kerana naiib kadhi tak diiktiraf
sedangkan naib kadhi tu cuma keluarkan surat nikah bukan jadi wali
napa tak sah nikah tu
masuk paper lagi

orangbesi

salam

mungkin ikut hukum manusia tak sah kot
tapi HUkuM Tuhan dah sah leeee

apakah hukum manusia lebih ditakuti
atau HUKUM TUHAN???

ianho

waalaikum salam
mungkin kerana itu setiap arahan yang dikeluarkan akan diikuti dengan hukuman
manusia juga mematuhi syariat ini
buat undang2 melarang dan disertakan dengan hukuman apabila melanggar undang2  eg. dadah

orangbesi

cam tu le
tapi hanya tertakluk kepada hukum manusia aje

cuba TUHAN berbuat kita cam tu
apa kesudahannya???
tanpa ada peluang utk memohon keampunannya???

Acong

Originally posted by ibnur at 16-2-2008 12:33 AM
Ni senang jer RPK cakap orang boleh dpt hidayah kot kalau orang Islam semua baik-baik????

at least bila nk berdakwah akan kebaikan islam kpd non-muslim adalh contoh nak ditunjukkan...... kalu dah perangai yg muslim pun cam kafir, apa berbeza kafir dgn golongan fasik?

Acong

Originally posted by orangbesi at 18-2-2008 05:45 PM
cam tu le
tapi hanya tertakluk kepada hukum manusia aje

cuba TUHAN berbuat kita cam tu
apa kesudahannya???
tanpa ada peluang utk memohon keampunannya???

manusia lebih takut kan undang

orangbesi

tepuk dada tanya selera

apabila dinampakkan
apa yg sangat ditakuti selama ini
dan utk selama-lamanya

ibnur

itu hanya alasan acong.  ada orang boleh dapat hidayah dalam kelompok manusia yang bergelumang dengan dosa.  ada orang dalam kelompok manusia yang baik-baik boleh hilang hidayah.  pemain muzik rock pun boleh tukar jadi alim, begitu jugak ustad boleh jadi perogol.

hidayah tu semua Allah yang tentukan, macamana Allah tentukan tu tak terdaya kita nak pikirnya.

orangbesi

salam

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