#1 How should new Gentile Christians be guided by God's Law or Moses Law.

lurkingaround

For new Gentile Christians, they are exempted from the burdensome parts of God's Law or Moses Law, eg  no need to be circumcised or eat kosher foods, as per ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4 = they only need to keep the non-burdensome laws, eg the Ten Commandments, in order to do well on earth.

Most new Gentile Christians were previously lawless Gentiles from childhood = they may be carrying different kinds of baggage from their past sins/law-breaking before coming into faith in the Lord/God Jesus Christ for salvation from hell when they die, ie they may have the earthly curses/effects, eg addiction to alcohol, nicotine or other psychotropic drugs.

So, most new Gentile Christians are born-again of the Holy Spirit of God by faith as babes-in-Christ = they can crawl-in-Christ/Spirit but they can't fully walk in the Spirit/Christ - 1COR.3:1-3, HEB.5:12, 1PET.2:2, GAL.5:17-23, 1JOHN.5:18, HEB.8:10 & 10:15.
....... First, they need to keep the 4 easy laws at ACTS.15:28-29 & 21:20-25, in order to do well on earth. Then the new Gentile Christians need to gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome laws of God by feeding on the Word - JOHN.1:1 & 14, in order for them to grow to become a mature adult-in-Christ - 1PETER.2:2, 1COR.3:1-3, HEB.5:13. They should mostly remain as they are wrt their former Gentile lifestyle = no drastic change needed after they become Christians/believers. God gave this exemption to the Gentile Christians because eternal life in heaven through faith in Christ trumps a better and longer life on earth through the Law of Moses.

Otherwise, the Gentile Christians will likely go and commit ignorant or willful or intentional sins = cursed by God of His agents with calamities = may lose faith in Christ/God while suffering for their sins = lose salvation - JOB.2:9, 1TIM.4:1, HEB.6:1-8 & 10:26-31, 1COR.5:4-5 & 11:30 & 6:9-11, REV.22:12-17.

False doctrines of Antinominianism, Once-Saved-Always-Saved, Hyper-Grace, etc tend to give misguided Christians the license-to-sin without any earthly or heavenly repercussions, supposedly through their faith in Jesus Christ, as if His shed Blood on the Cross permits them to commit uncleanness/dirtiness or sins or wanton law-breaking or has given such misguided Christians a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card. In truth, the Lord/God Jesus Christ and His Cross has only given believers the Get-Out-of-Hell-Free card. God's Law still applies on earth for Jews and Christians alike, eg such misled Christians who ignore the Law and drink-n-drive, steal, rob, defraud, rape, murder, etc will still be cursed or jailed or executed by God or His agents(= eg police, courts and governments).
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God's ideal servants/saints was Jewish Christians like the apostles. Unfortunately, most of the Jews rejected Jesus of Nazareth as the Christ/Messiah and "killed" Him on the Cross because they desired for a Christ/Messiah who would gift them back their kingdom of earth(= glorious Israel/Judah) by defeating the Roman occupiers - JOHN.6:15. Hence, God extended His kingdom of heaven to the Gentiles/Greeks but many controversies resulted from this extension, eg the Judaizer controversy of GAL.2:9-14. Hence, it is difficult for most Gentiles to enter into eternal life in the kingdom of heaven, compared to the mostly law-abiding Jewish Christians - MATT.7:13-14.
....... Eg in secular USA today, it is lawful to commit adultery, fornication, divorce, abortion, homosexuality, prostitution, witchcraft, idolatry, blasphemy, atheism, etc which are adopted by many morally-decadent Gentiles = most of them do not do well on earth, ie suffer all kinds of calamities for their willful sins = not easy for Gentile Christians to always keep the faith in Christ until their dying breath. Similarly during the 1st-century morally-decadent Roman Empire which had ruled Judea and the Jews.
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HEBREWS.8:10-11 (NKJV) =    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.  11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.  12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
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lurkingaround

How does the laws of God work.?

It is very similar to how most national laws work, eg the law-enforcers/police/courts will overlook minor offenses, warn 1st-time offenders, fine traffic offenders, imprison convicted thieves/robbers, rapists, bullies, etc and may execute convicted murderers - cf 1JOHN.5:16-17, DEUT.19:15 and LEVITICUS. The police do not arrest us for thought-crimes, eg thinking  immorally/sinfully/devilly about committing adultery, rape, pedophilia, incest, fornication, stealing, bullying, murdering, etc.
....... Similarly, in God's laws, unintentional sins can be forgiven but intentional sins cannot be forgiven, eg convicted thieves have to pay 4X compensation for what they had stolen, manslaughterers are exiled to sanctuary cities and murderers or adulterers were stoned to death. God also do not prematurely curse people for thought-sins, which are later reserved for the curse of hell after they die.

Sin or offense is usually deeds that bring harm or offense to others, God or self because humans and Satan/demons have been cursed by God to be arch enemies - GEN.3:14-19, eg demons spiritually eat decaying dead human bodies or dust. Inborn sin or evilness is a pandemic "viral infection" of Adam, Eve and humans from Satan - GEN.2, JOHN.8:44, MATT.16:23 & 23:27, MARK.7:21, 1JOHN.3:8, MATT.4:1-11.


As per DEUT.28:15-68, there are many ways God can curse/punish His people for their intentional sins/law-breaking, eg sickness that requires hospitalization, poverty/pestilence, plagues/pandemics, injuries from accidents, equipment damage/fault, natural disasters, etc.

The Adam's Original Sin/AOS that is inherited by all humans is an unintentional sin, that causes them to occasionally have involuntary thought-sins(= fiery darts from the wicked one - EPH.6:16) and the inherent tendency to commit voluntary or intentional sins/evil-deeds, ... our inherited AOS can be forgiven by the blood sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, for those who believe - LEV.4 & 17:11, JOHN.1:29, ROMANS.5:12, JOHN.3:14-21 = believers-in-Christ will be saved from the hell curse of GEN.2:17(= spiritual death) when they die physically on earth.

Such believers will still be cursed/punished by God with earthly calamities if they foolishly or ignorantly go and sin intentionally - HEB.10:26-31, 1COR.5:4-5. The grave risk here is that such foolish/ignorant believers who had sinned or broken the Law may blame God and stop believing in Christ/Messiah while suffering God's curses on earth = they lose their salvation.
....... Eg Hyper-grace and OSAS(= once saved always saved) adherents wrongly believe they have the "Get Out Of Jail Free" card from Jesus Christ = they tend to be careless about committing intentional sins, especially those sins not against their local national laws, eg adultery, fornication, sodomy, divorce, dabbling in the occult, idolatry, innovative cheating/fraud, etc. In truth, believers-in-Christ only have the "Get Out Of Hell Free" card when they die or leave this rotten bedevilled earth/world.

Mothers often warn their kids, "Don't play with fire.!" .......

HEB.6:1-8 = The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
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lurkingaround

REV.14:12 = 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.



A true Christian cannot remain in intentional or willful or known sins/law-breaking, eg adultery, serial divorcer, homosexuality, stealing, cheating/lying, dabbling in the occult, idolatry, etc. The Holy God would definitely spit them out of His kingdom and remove them from His protection, eg by causing the unrepentant sinner/law-breaker to lose faith in Christ.
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lurkingaround

Personally, starting from a new Gentile Christian, I had grappled for many years with the very difficult concept of the 1st-century Person of Jesus Christ being also the Holy Spirit and God the Father at the same "time" (= the Holy Trinity) before He/His Son/His Spirit finally "revealed" it to me. Hence, MATT.7:8&14 say, " 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.  ... 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

A good analogy to understand the spiritual concept of the Holy Trinity is to compare the Father in heaven, His Son(= visible) and His Spirit(= invisible) on earth with the sun in "heaven", her visible light and invisible warmth on earth.
....... The sun, light and warmth are one and the same, yet different depending on where and when the subject person is. So too is God the Father, the Son and the Spirit wrt His subjects.

Jesus the Christ/Messiah is also God - ISA.9:6, JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIM.3:16, JOHN.20:28, 2COR.3:17. This may be one of the criteria which differentiates between true and false Christians. True Christians will meet Jesus Christ again(1THESS.4:16, 1COR.15:52 & 24) and see Him as their Lord God(= not just a prophet of God), whether as a visible Person or an invisible Spirit on earth or as the Almighty Father God in the kingdom of heaven.

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"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".......


ISA.35: =
The Future Glory of Zion

35 The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them,
And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
2 It shall blossom abundantly and rejoice,
Even with joy and singing.
The glory of Lebanon shall be given to it,
The excellence of Carmel and Sharon.
They shall see the glory of the Lord,
The excellency of our God.

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lurkingaround

QUOTE from a Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian;

BECAUSE if it's really true that the phrase sin deliberately is referring to acts of immorality, etc, then I think nobody can be saved. Yet we know that is not true, because in the book of revelation it's revealed the people who are save are so numerous, it's uncountable.

I believe all of us have intentionally sin, one way or another IF we are willing to be honest in the course of our Christian Life. Being honest before God is important. I wonder who here is willing to admit, he is perfect and have never sin intentionally?

REPLY to the above  by another Christian:

If the above person continues sinning, even after coming to the knowledge of Christ, then he is NOT SAVED. The body is the temple of the HS.

The HS cannot indwell a vessel that is unclean! The spirit is therefore, NOT regenerated!


"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. For the patch will pull away from the garment, and a worse tear will result. Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will spill, and the wineskins will be ruined. Instead, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved." - Matthew 9:16 - 17

"No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him." - 1 John 3:6


Professed Christians who see no problem with 'sin', that sin is perfectly normal, who claim that they 'sin less', & that it's impossible not to sin, are NOT Christians. They just think that they are.

Can a Christian, even with the indwelling HS, still continue to live in sin? While before, they were unable to reform when they were unbelievers, yet even with the HS, they're still sinful? biggrin.gif


REPENTANCE MUST COME FIRST, BEFORE REDEMPTION. ALWAYS.

We need to think long & hard. It pains me to say this, but that is exactly why a person without the HS, interprets the Bible wrongly all the time.

It is therefore, not the Spirit of truth, but a spirit of error.

"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." - 1 John 4:6

Carnal mind -----> erroneous understanding----> erroneous teaching----> deceived themselves & others without even realizing it!

That is why wolves come in sheep's clothing. If wolves appeared as wolves devil.gif , everybody would run!

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There may be false Christians, like the above Charismatic/Pentecostal Gentile Christian, running around who falsely believe they can continue to go and sin willfully or intentionally and God/Jesus-Christ/the-Spirit would still keep them saved from hell forever. That's likely self/demonic-delusion and taking the grace and mercy of God for granted.

2THESS.2: =
The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,  4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?  6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.  7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.  8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.  9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,  10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,  12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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lurkingaround

Posted by a Reformed Calvinist or OSAS(once saved always saved) adherent at  Oct 13 2020 @ 06:39 AM

I just want to interrupt a bit here, seeing that Hebrews keep getting thrown around to prove a point without a proper context to the verse, especially in Hebrews 6.

QUOTE
“Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/114/heb.6.1-6.nkjv


The bolded part has again and again been used to prove to say real Christians can lose their salvation, but failed to see the whole context of the argument, and even the whole book of Hebrews.

The argument actually started from chapter 5:

QUOTE
“For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/114/heb.5.12-14.nkjv


I’m going to paraphrase and put my commentary in the arguments, and see if you can make sense of what it is trying to say.

Since the Jews have first received the scriptures, they should already be experts and teacher. But they are still immature. (The laws point to the messiah)

(Therefore,) he calls the Jews to leave the discussions and shadows of the messiah and come to the Messiah (Jesus), don’t go back to the old ways of dead works, of (ceremonial) washings, of laying of hands (on goats and rams)

If they( the Jews) have experienced God and His word in the midst of them, and still rejected Him, there can’t be any possible salvation for them. (Fallen away is used only here in NT, and in the same way as apostasy)

(And they stand with those who crucified Christ, )and they agreed that Jesus is a liar and should be crucified, and put him to an open shame.

This is how a Jew would read Hebrews. It is after all, a letter to the Hebrews. Every Christian writer in history affirms that.

T

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This is how OSAS proponents butcher the Word of God/Scripture/Bible to fit into their narrative and false doctrine of guaranteed or assured/insured salvation, like how Job had tried to obtain guaranteed or assured/insured prosperity from God by making a vile offering just in case his spoiled sons might commit sin to cause him to lose all his hard-earned prosperity by being faithfully obedient to God - JOB.1:5 & 3:25 & 2:9.

Such OSAS adherents likely also believe in buying lots of medical and life insurance, instead of believing in God and His provisions of good health and long life on earth for His faithful and law-abiding servants, eg MATT.6:33.
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The OT Jews did not have  the whole "elementary principles of Christ, ... let us go on to perfection, .... not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.", eg the OT Jews did not have the common Christian practice of Holy Communion of partaking the blood and flesh of Christ(= the Lamb of God), of baptism, laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead, etc.

HEB.5:12 has to be cross-referenced with 1COR.3:1 and 1PET.2:1, in order to get the proper understanding of the Word of God, .......

1COR.3:1-5 (NKJV) = 1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?

1PET.2:1-3 = 1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

In HEB.5, 1COR.3 and 1PET.2, Paul and Peter were both castigating new Jewish/Hebrew Christians and Gentile Christians for committing ignorant sins or mistakes, like ignorant and careless babies and toddlers, eg the Gentile Christian incestor of 1COR.5:1-5.  So, HEB.5&6 were not directed at Jews, but to Jewish Christians or Hebrew Christians. Why would Paul and Peter wrote personal letters to unbelieving Jews or Hebrews or Gentiles or Roman idolators or atheists.?

Beware of such a false teacher.
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HEB.12: = The Glorious Company

18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

Hear the Heavenly Voice

25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, 26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” 27 Now this, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

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lurkingaround

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1JOHN. =

1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.  9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.


The Test of Knowing Christ

2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.  2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Most mature Christians interpret the above Scripture/Word of God as we have inherited  Adam's Original Sin unintentionally that causes us to have the tendency to commit intentional sins. So, we cannot say we have no sin = we have unintentional inherited AOS = we are bound for hell upon death unless we have Christ/Messiah in us, whose shed blood could atone for this inborn sin of ours.

....... Most of us, especially Gentile Christians, have committed intentional sins in the past and got punished/cursed by God or His agents. God may withdraw such punishment/curse by forgiving our past intentional sins, eg the Story of Job, Abraham, Moses and King David, ie God forgave their intentional sins which might have been done ignorantly and removed His curse, eg the incestuous half brother/sister couple, Abraham and Sarah were barren and only got a son, Isaac, at the very old age of about 90 y o.

Chrstians who have been forgiven their past intentional sins and their curses removed by God should be repentant and "go and sin the same sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you." - JOHN.5:14 & 8:11.

Even mature Christians are not perfect and may fall into intentional sins through the tempting wiles of the devil. Hence, the dire warning at .......

1JOHN.5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.  17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

1COR.5:4-5 = 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,  5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

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lurkingaround

QUOTE from a Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian;

BECAUSE if it's really true that the phrase sin deliberately is referring to acts of immorality, etc, then I think nobody can be saved. Yet we know that is not true, because in the book of revelation it's revealed the people who are save are so numerous, it's uncountable.

I believe all of us have intentionally sin, one way or another IF we are willing to be honest in the course of our Christian Life. Being honest before God is important. I wonder who here is willing to admit, he is perfect and have never sin intentionally?
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Really? You claim Christians are perfect? So you admit to be perfect eh? Then I challenge you.

Have you done this?


Matthew 19:21 (NKJV) - Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Have you also done this?

Matthew 18:8 (NIV) - If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.


Still want to pick verses you cannot do and claim it is a metaphore? Those are God's words and I don't think it's metaphore, not in the slightest bit.

So in conclusion: Have you obeyed those 2 verses?

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So, there may be false Christians running around, eg the above Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian, wrongly professing that Christians could not ever stop intentionally or willfully sinning/evildoing/law-breaking , ... and misinterpreting/twisting the Word of God/Scripture/Bible at MATT.19:21 & 18:8 to serve their demonic doctrines of Antinominianism, Hyper-Grace and OSAS(= once saved always saved).

Wrt MATT.19:21, just like the 11 Jewish Christian Apostles had to abandon everything and follow Jesus the Christ/Messiah for 3+ years on earth, in order to be saved from hell, so too was this salvation condition given to the rich young Jewish ruler because his perfect keeping of Moses Law could no longer save him from hell - - with the 1st Advent of Jesus Christ to earth at around 30AD. Thereafter, only those who believe or have faith in Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Saviour  could be saved from hell. But note that the sinful/evil works of willfully or intentionally breaking the Law can cause "Christians" to lose faith and salvation while suffering the curses of God for their dastard deeds - DEUT.28:15-, PROV.1:26, ROM.2:5-13.

....... Before the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ, only Jews who had kept Moses Law or God's commandments were later given the opportunity to be saved from hell through faith in Christ, eg Abraham, beggar Lazarus, Moses, Elijah, etc - LUKE.16:19-31/DEUT.15:11, 1PET.3:19 & 4:6, MATT.17:3 & 27:52. After the 1st Advent of Jesus Christ to earth, this opportunity for the Jews ceased, ie today, Jews can no longer be saved from hell by just keeping the Law, like the rich young Jewish ruler of MATT.19:21. Christians are not saved from hell by keeping the Law, even though the keeping of the Law brings earthly blessings from God, eg a good and long life on earth. A law-abiding Jew today will still be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth but when he/she dies or leave this earth, he/she will be sent to eternal hell. Similarly for law-abiding Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, etc..

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MATT.18:8 which is based on MATT.5:21-48 follows the above teaching. In effect, the Lord/God Jesus Christ told His fellow Jews/Pharisees that if they continued to reject Him as their Christ/Messiah/Saviour but still wanted to be saved from hell, then they would have to pluck out their eyes and cut off their limbs, turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile, lend everything to all who asked, love their enemies(not just their Jewish neighbors) and other unreasonable self-saving deeds. Why.? = because the keeping of the Law could no longer save the Jews from hell, eg did not commit murder, bullying, cursing, adultery, stealing, lying/cheating, idolatry, blasphemy, etc.

....... For those who have faith in Jesus Christ for their salvation from hell, they do not need to do such unreasonable self-saving deeds like cutting off their limbs ....... or selling off all their possessions because today there is no Person by the name of Jesus Christ physically present on earth for them to follow - after the Ascension of Jesus Christ back to heaven at around 33AD, only His Spirit and Word were/are present on earth.

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lurkingaround

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What is the Bible or God's definition of sin or evildoing.? .......

https://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html
Answer: Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Sin had its beginning with Lucifer, probably the most beautiful and powerful of the angels.

ROMANS.7:7 = 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.


MATT.7:12 = 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

MATT.22:37-40 =
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’  38 This is the first and great commandment.  39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’  40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


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Basically, sin is law-breaking, is shown by people aping Satan by wanting to be like God or gods or own-boss-in-life(= the result of Lucifer's rebellion) and working on Satan's behalf by wanting to hate/harm/offend others or self(= the result of Adam's Original Sin and the curse of God at GEN.3:14-15, ie Satan/demons and people are arch enemies).



So, in whatever we want to do, we need to ask ourselves whether we will be rebelling against our Lord/Master God by not serving Him and/or harming or offending others/self.?

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lurkingaround

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Different religions have their own ways of being saved from hell or to go to heaven, or to go to nowhere after death, eg atheists believe they die and go nowhere or return to dust/decay.

For Christians, as per the promise of God at JOHN.3:14-21 & 14:1-6, salvation from hell after death is based solely on people having faith or belief in Jesus the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, especially for Jewish Christians and good Gentile Christians who have kept Moses Law as best they could = avoided being cursed by God with a sad and short life on earth = risk losing faith and salvation.

Conversely, people will be condemned by God to hell after death based solely on them having no faith or belief in Jesus Christ, eg non-Christians like Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, etc. Hell-bound people can also include ex-Christians who have voluntarily left the faith(= apostates) and lost faith through tribulation or persecution, suffering for their willful/intentional sins, worldly cares and temptations,(MATT.13:1-23) and false Christians  who have departed away from the faith by following deceiving spirits and  demonic doctrines(1TIM.4:1), etc.

JOHN.3: =
  14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,  15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.  16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”


JOHN.14: =

The Way, the Truth, and the Life

14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.  2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.  4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

5 Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”


6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
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lurkingaround

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr ... ian_proselytisation
" Christian proselytisation

Proselytising

Proselytising of Muslims by members of other religions is prohibited by federal law, even though Muslims may proselytise. It is prohibited in 10 of the 13 states (i.e. excepting Penang, Sabah, Sarawak and the Federal Territories) and can lead to lengthy jail sentences and many strokes of the rotan (whipping). Most Christian and a few other religious groups in Malaysia put a standard disclaimer on literature and advertisements stating "For non-Muslims only". "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39252139  - 12 April 2017
"Mr Koh runs a non-government organisation called Harapan Komuniti (Hope Community) in Kuala Lumpur, which helps the poor, single mothers, and drug addicts. "

https://www.baptistpress.com/res ... w-at-1-month-point/ - Malaysian-pastors-abduction-now-at-1-month-point - 13 March 2017

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No doubt, if the OP is true, the powerful government/PDRM was extrajudicial and extreme in their action, similar to chopping off hands for stealing, ie not according to God's just and fair law of ni4ni or a life for a life. IOW, the powerful Malaysian government should have used other laws to punish Ps Raymond Koh and/or seek to amend the State(= FT, Penang, Sabah and Sarawak) or Federal Constitution, eg the 9 Malay/Muslim Sultans could have banished Koh from their states, the government could have shut his NGO and Church or just make his life difficult, etc.
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As a Protestant pastor, Raymond Koh should be very well-versed with the Word of God at MATTHEW.22:21 and ROMANS.13:1-7 who commanded Christians to obey their powerful national government at all times, except only when their salvation in God/Jesus Christ is at stake, eg Apostle Peter and Paul were executed/martyred in Rome by the Roman Emperor for disobedience, ie by refusing to worship the Emperor as God as decreed by Roman Law (= MATTHEW.24:15).

Another example, even though Malaysian Law permits the practice of idolatry, blasphemy, adultery/sexual immorality, divorce, etc, Christians are to obey God's Law who prohibit such evil practices.  Christians committing idolatry and blasphemy willfully/intentionally/unrepentantly will lose their salvation or place in heaven. Christians committing adultery/sexual immorality and divorce willfully will be cursed by God with earthly calamities(= DEUT.28:15-68 , HEBREWS.10:26-31) = risk losing their salvation when they lose faith in God/Jesus while in horrible suffering like terminal cancer, eg JOB.2:9, 1CORINTHIANS.5:1-5 = may curse God/Jesus and die.
....... In these cases, the powerful government is not prosecuting or persecuting or martyring/executing the Christian law-breakers who will lose or may lose their salvation in the afterlife, ie they got cursed/punished in this life for their own law-breaking/evil-deeds/sins.
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lurkingaround

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Problem is, there are some Gentile Christian adults who had committed sins or lawlessness before coming into faith in Jesus Christ, eg drug-addicts, alcoholics(cf: LEV.10:9), chain-smokers, adulterers/divorcees/sexual fornicators with STD, sodomites with HIV, dabblers in the occult, etc = they may still be suffering the curses of God for their past sins, even though they have become new Christians. They may not have a good, healthy and long life on earth but they may still be saved from hell after death - eg 1COR.5:1-5. Of course, this does not preclude such suffering Gentile Christians from being miraculously healed by God/Jesus, but which should be a rare happening today.

How should such suffering and "defective" new Gentile Christian adults lead their lives in Christ.?

It is likely more negative to force such suffering and "defective" Gentile Christians to be reformed and to stop their substance addiction, eg be sinless and law-abiding by stopping taking drugs, alcohol and cigarettes, or to force them to search for healing/cure desperately. The Word of God at ACTS.15:28-29 allows them to remain as they are, except to start their new-born-again lives by keeping just 4 simple non-burdensome laws/commandments of Moses Law, ie avoid things offered to idols, taking blood, things strangled and sexual immorality. Thereafter, they should learn to keep the other non-burdensome laws and be exempted from burdensome laws like circumcision, kosher/clean foods, etc.

This is based on God's love for His people, even for such suffering and "defective" new Gentile Christian adults.

People should obey the Law/commandments/Word of God (= avoid committing sins or lawlessness), in order to gain a good, healthy and long life on earth. Additionally, they should inherit the kingdom of heaven (= be saved from hell) after death or leaving this earth by faith/trust/belief in Jesus the Christ/Messiah and His completed works on the Cross, not by faith in their own good works of the Law (= avoided committing sins or lawlessness).
....... Hence, God's original ideal people were Jewish Christians like the 12 Apostles - MATT.19:16-23, ie those who have kept the Law/Word and believed in Jesus Christ. Alas, most of the Jews rejected Jesus the Messiah/Christ because they desired for their own kingdom of earth in Israel/Judah(JOHN.6:15) and then God invited sincere and repentant Gentiles/Greeks into His kingdom of heaven.
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