Hakikat

Remy_3D · Post time 23-8-2005 12:55 AM

Apakah maksud hakikat?

Atomic_Omnikid · Post time 23-8-2005 10:10 PM

Kebenaran yang tidak boleh diubah...atau dikesali

seribulan · Post time 24-8-2005 01:37 PM

...atau yang disangkal?

ckp omputehnyer the TRUTH is out there...ni nu ni nu ni nu...

Duriant · Post time 26-8-2005 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Remy_3D at 23-8-2005 12:55 AM
Apakah maksud hakikat?

neumena (kakikat)
fenomena (yang tampak daripada hakikat)

paler kembang · Post time 19-9-2005 12:29 AM

keadaan sebenar.

Show all posts · Post time 23-9-2005 06:38 PM

yang sebetul-sebetulnya...takder aper lagik yang betul sekain perkara yang telah,memang dan akan betul.

miss_sherlock · Post time 28-10-2005 05:46 AM

hakikat boleh dikatakan realiti atau kebenaran.

Tapi realiti mungkin satu ilusi saja sprti kebenaran..

so for me hakikat ini sesuatu yang relatif.
Hakikat sesuatu itu hanya relatif pada pemikirnya, keadaannya dan konteksnya.

The only hakikat yg pasti is the ONE

Greenbottle3 · Post time 29-10-2005 11:51 AM

ms sherlock...

the problem is what is the ONE?...who's version is the right one (about the ONE)...and who are to judge?

is the ONE really MANY or All (pantheism)

we'll never know... hence basically all religions boil down to FAITH....and faith is totally arbitrary..

miss_sherlock · Post time 29-10-2005 04:15 PM

hahahahaah.. :lol

well i did say in my previous post that religion, like science takes a Great leap of faith.

i understand your concept abt faith being arbitrary because sometimes i believe that most faiths are conditioned by the way we have been brought up, our society and etc.

my last sentence was touching on my faith and my hakikat..
that was my sentiment and i fully understand the kaleidoscopes of faiths and beliefs out there and im never one to advocate what i believe is right. I believe there is a reason why we have 6 billion ppl in the world with so many different backgrounds, stories, cultures and faith.

so please dont be so quick to say that i am passing judgement on what is right, ya?
haiyyooo greenbottle3 .. it was one sentence.. :lol

ah well... it is always good to stir a birds nest.. for fear that if left long thats just what it will ever be.. a pile of twigs, dust and leaves. *Chuckles* this is an exciing break from my thesis!!

take care

Greenbottle3 · Post time 30-10-2005 09:18 AM

Miss sherlock...at last i met a girl that can think  (you!)...god am i a chauvinist pig...but don't that bothers anyone...in practice i love girls better if they don't really think...god! am i the worst pig ever!!!...

coming back to topic...hakikat.... there isn't such a thing..even plato/socrates...when talking about this thing ...eg what makes  dog a dog...they re all different and even if we take just one dog it always changes...but we still call it a dog...what is 'dogness'...etc...as i say even plato doesn't know....

i think the real answers to all the hard questions in life...why are we here, is there god , what is happiness etc...are somewhere inside the 'inadequacy of language(s)...i think we don't pose the questions the right way....

if you're  a scientist,...you know that in order to get  usefu/meaningful l answers you must pose the question correctly....it's the most basic scientific system...to pose the right questions...

I don't know anything about philosophy of language or logic so, i can not say anything on this...

by the way , if you read the funny "hitch hiker's guide to the galaxy" they already gave you the answer about all these philosophical issues...it is 42...the problem is they have to come up with the right question!!

a small aside...one british band (in the 80s) like it so much that they call their band 'level 42'....

and a further digression...there is one excellent novel by herman raucher about growing up and discovery about life...it's also called 'summer of 42....

miss_sherlock · Post time 30-10-2005 09:14 PM

Hmmm .. your dogness theory reminded me of one of my fave books.. Sophie's World. Yeah i remember something along those lines of things in our world being something that we define ourselves and though it may change shape or behaviour you always relate it as that. Like the "dogness" theory. Well, order i suppose is a prevalent theme in us humans as it keeps us sane. Which is ironic as i consider human behaviour to be the opposite considering we have brains and free will to guide us!

Actually puts forth my observation, i notice that each creation and manifestation of us humans is always inspired by something existent already. Do you notice that?
Like say whenever we try to envision aliens, or monsters, or machines.. they always have features, character which are inspired by things around us. Have not seen anything really that is creation ffrom scratch. Correct me if im wrong..

Unfortunately have not read the hitchhikers guide.. though i heard of the famous quote in that book about the Babel fish disproving the existence of God.. *chuckles

42? will look that up. Time is my enemy.. youth is my villain....if i could spend my days studying in the wonders of the world.. but theres bills to pay, things to do.. so much to do in so little time, aye! Soldier on, Sherlock!

Greenbottle3 · Post time 30-10-2005 10:21 PM

nice to know that you like sophie's world by jostein gaarder...i highly reccommend it to anyone that has not read it yet....

and yes... according to socrates...if i read it correctly ...there's nothing new...all knowledge that we aquire actually is already 'within us'....it's a matter of rediscovering it back... and he proved this by the famous socratic question and answer method...i don't know much about philosophy and theory of knowledge... but people like kiekergaard etc feels that the leap from not knowing to knowing is a miracle.. a most profound jump... how do we percieve something is right when before that we don't have this knowledge??....and by extension...all our imaginations is just assembling of things that we know already... take our dreams... it may be the most rediculous things in the world ...but it's just a collage of what we know already...

Show all posts · Post time 31-10-2005 09:06 PM

hakikat berasal dari perkataan arab iaitu haqaiq/haq

Duriant · Post time 1-11-2005 12:00 AM

May I.

Faith, a kind of attitude of trust…involves a stance towards some claim that is not demonstrable by reason, at least for now. Religiously it came from the authority or revelation.

Some believed that faith is offensive to reason, or above reason. “I believe because it is absurd”, says Tertullian. “When we believe, we desire to believe nothing further.” Period. ( I see our ulama salafs nod in agreement… wonderful!)

Faith is above reason? Yep… as Thomas Aquinas says we actually have theological truths that exceeds human reason. But he also says that we could attain truths above religious claims without faith, but such truths are incomplete. A two fold truth he calls it. One to which the inquiry of reason can reach and the other which surpasses the whole ability of the human reason.
(Averroes – Ibn Rushd, the great commentator of Aristotles - must be smiling in approval… hehehe)

How come two truths, one not enough ke? Clever Thomas says one cannot believe by faith and know by rational demonstration the very same truth since this would make one or the other kind of knowledge superflous. Real clever.

But of course you may choose to be an Augustinian – faith seeking understanding. To believe is to think with assent… an intellectual act, not determined by reason but by the will, a commitment. To believe God , or to believe in God, or to believe in a God.

God who? Up to you. God but the God, the First Mover, the Ultimate Being, the Necessary Being, or… whatever.

Kierkegaard, the existentialist? To him as mentioned faith requires a leap, demands risk. Trust must be radical. To just elevate faith to the status of objective certainty as suggested by Hegel is just not enough. The radical trust of faith is the highest virtue one can reach, he says. Our beloved ‘enlightenment not yet complete’ Kant must be flabbergasted. Did’nt he says that faith is complex, has no theoretical ground yet it has a rational basis that provides more or less stable conviction for believers?

The shootouts continues…..

Duriant · Post time 1-11-2005 12:10 AM

tentang hakikat... ahli2 sufi pakar tentang ini.

syariat ke tarekat ke hakikat.

syariat is the kulit... hakikat is the isi.

To the extent of `ana al haqq' by al-hallaj.
and that's hakikat.

betulkah begitu?

miss_sherlock · Post time 1-11-2005 12:44 AM

i find as the time grew near.. my mind wanders more.. *chuckles
aye, missy sherlock always finds herself intrigued on unsightly goals when the fruits that she bears are so near
a timely distraction this lil forum!

okay .. i have not read much on philosophy so it is interesting for me to read all this. Thanks Duriant & GreenBottle !

but then again, in most circumstances i believe my thoughts are the only thing that is important .. :lol
a bit of a narcissist, eh?
*maybe  i shall start a new genre in philosphy called (oh wait cant mention my name.. *laughs)
miss_sherlock wisdomism!! where all ideas are limitless and anything goes. U have something on your mind? I will accept it!!*

anyway back to the topic,these are my thoughts ya?  i dont think faith is offensive to reason.. above as said by Aquinas? perhaps.. because i believe  to have faith there are elements of reason there already.. in order for you to have faith there are reasons to help get you to that point,  hence there are elements of reasons in faith ..

A radical truth? Possibly.. faith and reason to me can go hand in hand up til a point where there is a jump.. which is when that perplexes both the  theists and the atheists of the one's jump and the other's stay. My comments on kant.. hmm lets see.."complex yet with a rational basis.. enligtenment not complete" sounds to me like he's sitting on the line between jumping and staying, never quite there
these are just my thoughts.

Syariat = kulit, hakikat = isii , "ana al-haqq"? Explain that to me further, ya?

On a last note,to everyone i want to know what you  think .. your thoughts on these.. give me philosphers and case studies, but i would also like to know what YOU think..