Hamas willing To Recognise Israel, Adm_Cheng_Ho, read this - you are wrong!

ariyamusafir

Dear people. It appears that even Hamas, a group which Adm highlighted that they vowed for the destruction of Israel, is willing to recognise Israel, and live in peace together with Israel, under certain condition, reasonable conditions. For more info, please read the below from Aljazeera.

Hamas: Israel recognition against land

Friday 21 April 2006, 14:50 Makka Time, 11:50 GMT   

Peace with Israel is achievable only if it returns land seized in 1967, including Jerusalem, back to Palestine, a senior Hamas leader has said.

Khalid Mishaal, Hamas's chief political officer, told ZDF, a German public television channel, on Friday: "Israel must withdraw from territories it has occupied since 1967. This includes the capital of Jerusalem."
Other conditions Mishaal said include "the right of refugees to return as well as the dismantlement of Jewish settlements, the destruction of the separation barrier and the release of all [Palestinian] detainees.
"If and only if Israel does this, then Hamas, Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims will be ready for true peace."

The Palestinian Authority has said there can be no peace unless Israel gives up all Palestinian territory conquered in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

Hamas, considered a terrorist group by the European Union and United States, refuses to recognise Israel and has failed to renounce violence since taking power after a landslide win in January's election.

Cash emergency

The Palestinian Authority is currently facing a financial emergency because of EU and US funding cuts to the Hamas-led government.

However, Mishaal said several countries had committed themselves to give money to the Palestinian Authority.

He said: "Iran has committed up to $50 million, Saudi Arabia $92.5 million, Qatar $50 million and Russia $10 million."

Mishaal also described Monday's suicide attack in Tel Aviv by an Islamic Jihad bomber as "an act of self-defence".

In the interview, he said: "The international community would have done better to halt Israeli aggression rather than punish the Palestinian people for having chosen their government in free elections."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/ ... 60-3C78FEFF0500.htm

ariyamusafir

Israel rejects Hamas call for truce
Saturday 08 July 2006, 17:18 Makka Time, 14:18 GMT   
Ismail Haniya, the Palestine prime minister, has called for a ceasefire with Israel "on the basis of a halt to all military operations by both sides."

Israel has, however, rejected the call.

"To get out of this crisis, everyone must return to a situation of calm on the basis of a halt to all military operations by both sides," a statement issued by the Palestine prime minister's office said.

"It is necessary that Israel halt its military operation in the Gaza Strip and withdraw its forces," the statement further said.

Later, AFP reported from Jerusalem that Israel had rejected the Palestinian prime minister's call for a ceasefire, demanding the unconditional release of an abducted Israeli soldier.

"We do not hold negotiations with terrorists. They must first return the kidnapped soldier unharmed and cease their fire,"
an official in Israeli prime minister office told AFP.

"We will decide on our next moves according to the steps taken by the Palestinian government," he said.

Israel pulls back

Two weeks ago Israel launched a massive incursion into the Gaza Strip after Palestinian militants from three groups, including Hamas's armed wing, abducted an Israeli soldier in a deadly raid on a border outpost.

On Saturday, Haniya called for a two-way ceasefire in the operation, which has claimed the lives of 36 Palestinians and one Israeli soldier.

Earlier Israeli and Palestinian sources said that the Israeli forces had pulled back from northern Gaza, three days after it invaded the area.

"Our forces have left the Beit Lahiya area and continue to operate west of the Karni terminal, as well as east of Beit Hanun and in the industrial zone near the Erez terminal," an army spokesman in Tel Aviv said.

Israeli forces could be seen withdrawing to a security zone, a thin strip of no-man's land on the northern border of Gaza, established after Israel pulled out of the territory in a massive disengagement operation 10 months ago, Palestinian witnesses and security sources said.
Earlier, Israeli troops backed by helicopters clashed with Palestinian fighters inside Gaza near the strip's key commercial crossing.
Witnesses and medics said several Palestinians were wounded in the clash that took place on the edge of a Hamas stronghold near the Karni crossing.
An Israeli aircraft fired at least one missile at the Palestinian fighters, witnesses said.
More deaths

Seven Palestinians were killed on Friday in the continuing Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip while another was shot dead in the West Bank.

Two of these were killed by an Israeli air strike that, an army spokesman said, was directed against "two armed cells" in the Al-Atatra area of Beit Lahiya which has been the scene of the deadliest fighting and attacks over the last two days.

"We identified hitting both of them," the spokesman said. The victims' names were not immediately released.

In another incident, nineteen-year-old Motaz al-Firi was killed by Israeli tank fire in Atatra and 20-year-old Shadi Omar, who medics said was  deaf, was shot in the chest and killed.

Earlier during the day, a Palestinian was killed in another Israeli air raid in the same area.

An 11-year-old boy died of wounds sustained in an Israeli  shooting a day earlier near Beit Hanun in northern Gaza, medics  said.

In the occupied West Bank, another Palestinian was shot  dead in clashes with Israeli forces in Nablus.


Soldier 'alive'

Meanwhile a top Israeli government official has suggested that Israel might release Palestinian prisoners as part of an Egyptian proposal to win freedom for an Israeli soldier held by militants in Gaza.

Avi Dichter, Israel's minister of public security, said that once the Israeli soldier was released and militants stopped rocket attacks from Gaza, "then, in a goodwill gesture, Israel, as it has in the past, knows how to free prisoners."

Dichter's comments were relayed by Ofer Lefler, his spokesman.

In a statement, Hamas said it was not asking Israel "for the impossible" over the 19-year-old captured tank gunner. Hamas, whose armed wing took part in Gilad Shalit's abduction, has demanded Israel free 1,000 prisoners in exchange for his release.
   
"His treatment is being done well and in a humanitarian way in accordance with the orders of our religion," the group said.
   
"We stress that negotiations are the only way out."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/ ... 95-26D554AB2E58.htm

Even PLO pun recognised the State of Israel  
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

LETTER FROM YASSER ARAFAT TO PRIME MINISTER RABIN:

September 9, 1993

Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel


Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators

In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.


Sincerely,

Yasser Arafat

Chairman

The Palestine Liberation Organization

HangPC2

itu lah diorang percaya sangat2 kat berita dari barat tuh.... baik aku tengok al-jazeera, al-arabiya, al-manar (stesen tv Hizbullah)

Is this what you were bothering me to look at???

What's it about?? Hamas willing to recognize Israel if all its demands are met?? It's the same old crap I've heard many times for years from these groups. Nothing new. What they were saying is as good as saying "Give me Malacca and I will publicly recognize your country is not a terrorist nation" by George W Bush to Badawi!

You did not prove that Hamas DID NOT vowed to destroy Israel. And you say I was wrong. What hoot!!

People, if you are reading this, listen up. Let me tell you straight. I've been studying extensively the Middle East issues for MANY years. If you want to talk to me about it, you'd better come up with something substantial. Please don't give me anymore taik kucing!!!

And one more thing, I've stopped commenting on Middle East issues already. I don't have much time for nonsense and I have better things to achieve for our nation. I have even starting to camp in the Local Politics board when that Ariya scrambled to find me and bothered me to look at his crappy piece of work, thinking he's winning. Early in the morning he bising-bising to me. I tot what gem he has. Sorry, he lost again. And don't worry, I'm still the same old me, as smug as ever. But hey, who can blame me?? I'm smart. And handsome.

Btw, since I'm here tonight, and considering that you won't be hearing much from me on this board, especially on the Middle East issues, I will satisfy you people's lust and thirst for my highly-craved comment.

I can see Rosie had dished out the 1993 letter to bolster the assertion that the PLO had recognized Israel. Come on LAH... this is another lip service. A ploy like the above example. If indeed they had fully and earnestly recognized Israel, they won't be making anymore demands at Camp David in 2000. There won't be anymore intifadas. End story.

HangPC2 mentioned Al-Manar. Something popped up in my brilliant mind immediately and I'd like to share with all readers. Earlier this year, Hamas won the election. Its leader gave an interview to Al-Manar TV and he was caught saying many chilling things. He does not recognize Israel and he hoped he'll be able to hang a map in his home without Israel on it.

Like I said before, if you people really cares about the Arab people, tell them to stop harbouring that dream of wiping Israel off the map. Tell them to stop supporting groups that still harbours that destructive intention before it's too late.

Good night.

ariyamusafir

Adm, yes, perhaps they have made that vow, but apparently, they have come to the fact that they want true peace, a peace with the existance of Israel, and NO, they are not asking for the size of Melaka etc. From your this statement, I can see that you did not even read really well before commenting, not knowing the points correct me if I am wrong, for your anology is baseless, useless in this sense. HAmas, wants Israel to RETURN to its ORIGINAL borders , allowing REFUGEES to RETURN, destrucction of the BARRIER in which even the uN recognised as ILLEGAL, into Palestinian land, and the freeing of Palestinian prisoners.

Those Arabs are willing to stop all wishes to wipe Israel out should Israel be commited to geniune peace. You have been studying??? Studying from an impartial point of view???? I dare not comment my study is impartial, but I dare to say that the evidence that I produce is facts, facts that even Hama who vowed to wipe out Israel is willing now, to recognise Irael should as the mentioned conditions be met. So what is stopping israel and Israelis from having a peaceful night sleep???

These are hard facts! Your study on them is not so important compared to the current situation.

First, you open this thread and accuse me that I "was wrong". Wrong about what? That I "highlighted" Hamas had vowed to destroy Israel.

Next, you were telling me TWICE about Hamas' claim that they are willing to commit to peace with Israel.

Now, I want you to pay special attention to what I am going to say because this shall be my last comment in this thread.

Hamas' charter calls for the destruction of Israel. This is an open manifesto of Hamas' struggle to appeal to the people of Palestine, Arab and Muslims. In fact, I even wonder if you ever read the manifesto yourself ! Based on this manifesto and members of the group's speeches, past and present, I therefore was and still IS right about Hamas. Thus, your accusation has become false!

Therefore, whether or not Hamas wants peace with Israel NOW has no relevance to what I have said about what Hamas HAD set out to do. The two arguments doesn't click! So, WTF Ariya. You hear me? WTF!!

One more thing, that kind of peace offer has been tabled MANY times already by several other groups. Therefore, it is nothing new. That's why it doesn't make headlines in global news. It only gets repeated in Arab propaganda news outlets. In fact, it is EXACTLY THE SAME conditions asked by the PLO which resulted in total mess!

There are so many groups trying to destroy Israel. Any one of them can make the sacrifice by betraying its own principle by giving up jihad on Israel in order to weaken Israel by making Israel comply to that kind of demands. When that happens, all the other terrorist groups can continue their war to further shrink Israel's territory right to the end.

"Right of return" means flooding Israel with Palestinian people to overtake the country. "Release Palestinian prisoners" means unleash the Jihadists. It happened during the failed Oslo Accord whereby released prisoners rejoined their groups to wreak havoc. "Withdraw to pre-67 border" means cramping the Israeli people to a land no bigger than Peninsula Malaysia! "Including Jerusalem" means Israel without capital and holy land. Peace huh?? You'd better stop all this impartial taik kucing!!!

Also, my statement about Malacca was a METAPHOR, you uneducated fool! With that kind of comprehensive standard, you want to challenge me to a debate? What hoot!! Until you have shown maturity in intellectual discourse you are not worth my time!

Mr. Ariyamusafir. You are getting worse by the day!

END

sonny~~

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 20-9-2006 04:52 PM
First, you open this thread and accuse me that I "was wrong". Wrong about what? That I "highlighted" Hamas had vowed to destroy Israel.

so what if hamas wanna vow to destroy israel?  at the end of the day, it's israel who commited more sins that hamas.  get that into your thick skull  

peace

from IFAMERICANSKNEW -
121 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 779 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.
   
Israelis and Palestinians Killed Since September 29, 2000
  1,084 Israelis and 4,171 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

Israelis and Palestinians Injured Since September 29, 2000
7,633 Israelis and 30,670 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.
   
Daily U.S. Assistance to Israel and the Palestinians
  The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO抯.

UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians
Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none.
   
Political Prisoners and Detainees
  1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 9,599 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

Demolitions of Israeli and Palestinian Homes
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.
   
Israeli and Palestinian Unemployment Rates
  The Israeli unemployment rate is 8.9%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 25-31%.

New Settlements Built (March 2001 - July 2003)
60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements.

DARSITA

Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. did not exist, and would never have existed, without the actions of the Israeli 'terrorist' regimes, and mysterious support of the United States. Perhaps if the United States gave helicopters, smart bombs, fighter jets, billions upon billions of dollars to Arab resistance fighters, and free rein to do as they please, there would be no need for suicide bombers. Since that is not the case, these poor people resort to very desperate measures in order to grab the attention of the world.

naz_1969

The way I see it , HAMAS lack the credibilities to propose this kind of peace offer. And that is the reason why it has been rejected by ISRAEL.

What would be interesting is when Arab Saudi with the rest of 21 Arab States under Arab League banners come forward with the peace proposal and establishing full diplomatics and economic relationship with ISRAEL. Then this will be meaningful to ISRAEL.

ISRAEL knew the real mover of arab people are the oil rich countries like Saudi Arabia , Iran , Iraq , etc. If these 22 Arab Nations can pen down their commitment on papers , HAMAS , PLO , HIZBOLLAH , etc have no other discourse but to follow the dotted line.

Ironically , only this avenue can ensure maximum endorsement by US. And its not happening. If this happened , Israel will cease to exist as apartheid country and they themselves are subjected to democratic reforms. By 2015 , the population of Palestinean in Israel will become majority instead of Israel. And if they push for one vote for right to democracy , would it not mean that they finaly can govern the Israel state one day?.

Regardless of the above hyphothesis , ISRAEL want to have peace , but not with HAMAS , but with the rest of 22 Arab Nations.

Question : Would wahabis clerics controlling the Saud Family will really allow the idea or ISRAEL states?.

sonny~~

Originally posted by DARSITA at 29-9-2006 11:51 AM
Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. did not exist, and would never have existed, without the actions of the Israeli 'terrorist' regimes, and mysterious support of the United States. Perhaps if the United States ...

. . . . these poor people resort to very desperate measures in order to grab the attention of the world.

dead right.  PALESTINIANS have no choice but to resort becoming sucide bombers as a form of retaliation against israeli terrorism.  if un has sought PALESTINIANS' persmission or at least consider their plight before dividing PALESTINE, israeli PALESTINIAN conflict would not have erupted  :geram:

sonny~~

Originally posted by naz_1969 at 1-10-2006 02:30 AM

The way I see it , HAMAS lack the credibilities to propose this kind of peace offer. And that is the reason why it has been rejected by ISRAEL.

What would be interesting is when Arab Saudi with the rest of 21 Arab States under Arab League banners come forward with the peace proposal and establishing full diplomatics and economic relationship with ISRAEL. Then this will be meaningful to ISRAEL

saudi arabia did propose a peace plan in 2002 but it was shot down by israel and the us  :hmm:

from mideastweb

Saudi Crown prince Abdullah floated an Arab peace plan that was discussed and modified at am Arab League summit conference in Beirut in March of 2002. The original plan called for peace with Israel in return for Israeli withdrawal from all territories.  It was announced as such in a very idiosyncratic way, through a New York Times column by Thomas Friedman.  In presenting the plan at the Beirut conference,   Abdullah added a significant but ambiguous condition: return of the Palestinian refugees. However, he did not specify whether refugees were to be "returned" to Israel or to the Palestinian state that would be created.

The plan as adopted calls for Israeli withdrawal from all territories occupied since 1967 and return of the Palestine refugees to Israel in return for recognition of Israel and normal relations. The difference is that much more emphasis was placed on the refugee issue. A similar plan was offered by Arab states at the armistice negotiations in 1949. The number of refugees to be returned is not specified. A section included at the insistence of Lebanon reads, " Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries" assuaging Lebanese fears of permanent settlement of Palestinians in Lebanon. Inclusion of this clause may indicate that something less than full return of the refugees is contemplated. UN General Assembly Resolution 194, mentioned in the plan, asserts the right of Palestinian refugees who are willing to live in peace with their neighbors to return to Israel. As there are currently over three million such refugees with an exceedingly high birthrate, literal implementation of return would eventually mean the end of the Jewish state of Israel. UN Security Council Resolution  242, passed in 1967, calls for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in the war of June 1967, but does not specify "all territories."

On the other hand, unlike either Friedman's account of the plan or the presentation of the plan proposed Abdullah's speech, the Arab Peace Plan adopted on Beirut and presented here specifically mentions "peace" with Israel as well as "normal relations." It states that Arab countries will:

I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region

II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

Of course, the Arab peace initiative would require Israeli withdrawal from the occupied Golan Heights and their return to Syria. Since the United States is not interested in supporting any peace process with Syria as long as the Assad regime remains in place, and has discouraged Israel from pursuing peace with Syria, it is not surprising that the United States, as well as Israel, were not enthusiastic about this initiative.

sweetmm

Biarlah sesiapa pun nak recognise Israel, I personally takkan recognise, it's my personal right.

DARSITA

Originally posted by sweetmm at 10/27/06 21:47
Biarlah sesiapa pun nak recognise Israel, I personally takkan recognise, it's my personal right.

Good news for you

Israel canceled all scheduled meetings with Norway's Undersecretary of State Raymond Johansen Tuesday, because he had had contact with Hamas, said reports reaching here from Oslo.

Israel said Norway had harmed the peace process in the Middle East by recognizing the new Palestinian unity government, according to Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK).

Norway became the first European country to lift the boycott of the Palestinian unity government, and Raymond Johansen met with Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh and President Mahmoud Abbas in Gaza on Monday.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-03/21/content_5874100.htm

Israel snubs Norwegian who met Palestinian PM

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel has canceled a high-level meeting with a visiting Norwegian dignitary after he held talks with Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, Israeli officials said on Tuesday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL204256320070320

Hamas hasn't fulfilled the conditions the world set for the ban to be lifted and yet Norway is going ahead as if they did.
That's a slap in the face to Israel.




[ Last edited by  DARSITA at 23-3-2007 02:12 PM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by sweetmm at 28/10/2006 13:47
Biarlah sesiapa pun nak recognise Israel, I personally takkan recognise, it's my personal right.

The most important things is that at the end, whatever it maybe, the conflict in the middle east would be resolved, with the palestinians having their own land, and their right to live is respected. There should be no more blood shed, by peaceful existance.

rurouni_khairul

I've prayed for that day everyday...

I just hope that in the end, this dispute will be resolve in an amicable manner and Arabs and Jews may lived happily side by side like what it was used to be during the past.