Pride

mbhcsf

Hami,  you did not comment on self fulfilling prophecy and pride...nak komen tak?nak nak nak..hehheh

my-alja

call me madam plzz....hahahaha ...HANG is not bad at all considered that i'm from penang

self -prophecy can be negative or positive rite, so in that sense it could be the same as PRIDE that agul is selling here...between self-prophecy n pride, both are just words for self-proclaimed(hehehe..another defination) to make urself feel gud or bad...pi mai-pi mai dok tang tu gakk..still abt self-esteem ...tapi self-prophecy nie takde  ada kena mengena dgn self-accomplishment kan?...sedangkan PRIDE nie secara lansung ada kena-mengena dgn pencapaian diri dulu baru dtg rasa tu...cuma kalo tak careful boleh jadi negatif

but i do understand what's agul trying to share here....my mom selalu ade negative sense of pride...katalah i masak lagi sedap drp dia , dia akan jawab camni..."bolehlah sedap...semuanya guna perencah segera"....."aku dulu giling rempah hari2 nak makan gulai sedap, bukan cam korang semuanya..INSTANT!!"....hihihih(dlm hati...yelahhhh tuuu )

no pain, no gain.....tak giling rempah(pain)...tak makan kari(gain)...tu yg mom cam tak puas hati kot, no pain but still gain.....hihihihihi

[ Last edited by  my-alja at 2-3-2008 04:48 PM ]

hamizao

  Naak! Just need a little time to arrange my thoughts...

You asked..

apa beza pride and this so called self - fulfilling prophecy? and associate this with self - insecurity , ni i think would be relevant for us as it will affect the way a manager / a leader / 's  governance of a system. That's why they introducing auditing ....this is a good topic related to PRIDE. Hami ..any take on this??? u ithink is the experienced ones...kinda of interested to know ur views on this.

Somehow, I do not see the link between PRIDE and SELF-FULFILLING PROPHESY (SFP for short)....
To my understanding, SFP has to do with something that's false(on the day) but giving the perception that it is true and somehow ending up as being true. Oh dear, I hope you can fathom that!

It is a play on people's perception.  Once the idea (false) is perceived people react to it and consciously or unconsciously cause the "prophecy" to come true. In Malay I think "mulut masin" seems to be pretty close.

Sometimes a person my utter such thing with  arrogance (not pride). Perhaps this is where some may link it to pride.

Talking about the leader's method, I reckon SFP may to an extent be skillfully used to control people. ...much like using the power of imagery to destroy or heal people in the olden days. Ah, that is worth another thread!

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 2-3-2008 06:48 PM ]

mbhcsf

SFP could actually be a hindrance in upgrading or towards reaching an effective governance. .

hamizao

Originally posted by Agul at 1-3-2008 08:18 PM
What you label as true and authenthic pride is nearer to courageousness.

In sedona we have emotions that falls on lower scale such as apathy, grief, fear, lust, anger, pride...
On higher scal ...

If I may elaborate.........true/authentic pride is pride that is well placed. It builds a bonding attitude......"crown of the virtues ," said Aristotle. It should be of good action on our part, done without any base motive. Am rather aware of the various ways pride is defined but to avoid confusion I favour the above. I see pride as one of a host of human emotions like those you mention. Whilst the human emotions are so very essential for self-preservation, the uncontrolled emotions can also be his nemesis. That's why such emotions are referred to as "negative" emotions. They cause destabilization in the function of the human body. If we cannot cope with it, it can cause mental or physical diseases. e.g. anger raises cholesterol levels and heart attack risk by 300%. Wah, am sounding like mbfcsf  lak!

I gather "negative" pride is usually referred to as false pride. It is different from true pride. It is usually associated with depression and depressed people are often thought to have low self-esteem. There are also those who think depressed people have a high opinion of themselves. So you just need to understand.

hamizao

A bedouin, who had business in the cattle market of a town, lost his young son in the confusion of the place. He hired a crier to shout through the streets that a reward of 1,000 piastere was offered for the return of the child.

The boy's kidnapper heard the crier but greed had opened his belly and he hoped to earn an even larger sum. So he waited and said nothing.

The following day, the crier was sent through the streets again. This time the sum offered was 500 piasters. The kidnapper still held out. To his surprise, on the third day the crier offered a mere 100 piasters. He hurried to return the boy and collect his reward.

Curious, he asked the father why the reward had dwindled from day to day. The Father said,

   "On the first day, my son was angry and refused to eat your food. Is that not so?"

  "Yes," agreed the kidnapper.

  "On the second day he took a little, and on the last he asked for bread of his own accord," said the father.

It had been so, the kidnapper agreed.

  "Well," said the father, "as I judge it, that first day my son was unblemished as refined gold. Like a man of honour, he refused to break bread with his captor. To bring him back with his pride untarnished; I was ready to pay 1,000 piasters.

  "On the second day, when hunger made him forget the conduct of a nobleman, he accepted food at your table, and I offered 500 piasters for him."

  "But then he had been reduced to begging humbly for food, his return was worth but 100 piasters for me."


ENJOY THE STORY THINKERS!

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 4-3-2008 11:08 PM ]

hamizao

Originally posted by mbhcsf at 3-3-2008 05:10 PM
SFP could actually be a hindrance in upgrading or towards reaching an effective governance. .

Normally, I believe SFP is referred to something bad. If it is good they call it foresight. I guess in modern days people would prefer leaders with foresight.

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 4-3-2008 11:22 PM ]

hamizao

Semua masih bercuti lagi ke?

Agul

False Humility.

Agul

False humility.

hamizao

How so......?

Agul

Sometime pride can masquarade as false humility.

You know how some people take pride in being humble.

IMHO, someone who has false humility is even worse than someone who's openly prideful.

hamizao

I once said that TRUE PRIDE is pride well-placed. However, common ethics and religious laws demand that we remain humble because before God we are all nothing. No one is better than the other. I am giving only a general idea here . So, there is humility. As I understand it humility is humility........spiritually. Otherwise it is not.

So, here is false humility .............like pretending to be humble to impress others, say. How does one do this? Is it by aggrandising one's humble actiions?

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 5-4-2008 12:06 PM ]

Agul

Originally posted by hamizao at 5-4-2008 12:02 PM
I once said that TRUE PRIDE is pride well-placed. However, common ethics and religious laws demand that we remain humble because before God we are all nothing. No one is better than the other. I牋...

It's semantic, hami.

so the false humility is not actually humbleness. It is actually a sense of holier than thou, which is a bad kind of pride.

hamizao

Hmmm............yeah, I have always thought that holier than thou is indeed pride....misplaced that is. Same general idea I guess. Orang macam ni selalunya taknak bercampur dgn orang yang agak less religious.

mbhcsf

how can we draw the line between "PRIDE" - and being humble and honest while at the same time you 'd also want to comply with the society's norms etc etc etc ?

mbhcsf

???? page?

hamizao

Dear mdhcsf, sori terlepas soalan ini.

Truely, I look at PRIDE in a positive light.....well placed. For example, a mother's pride when her child did her best. We should allow her to have her moment...we feel happy for her too. You know the saying, even "to a mama monkey , her child is a gazelle." So we must understand this mother-child bond. So if PRIDE is well placed there is nothing to frown on.

I am also aware that some people think mothers (perhaps fathers too) tend to go overboard with their pride such that  their "my son this..." and "my son that..." antics may get to the nerves of others. Well I would usually just offer them the remarks "Gee, I am sure you must be very proud of your son". There is no harm in allowing her her moment. She would usually get the messagelah.............

In being humble sometime this is what people tend to display to others eventhough they are fill with pride. Proud sombong hidung tinggi tu lain.....Sometimes when you are too humble pun tak berapa bagus. So, you must know when to show it and just how much. When you are uncertain, take the medium............You would soon learn .

[ Last edited by  hamizao at 26-4-2008 01:56 PM ]