Dr. M and the Gold Dinar !

Dr.M is a small pebble in uncle sam's shoe..  i wonder if gold dinar is his own idea or someone elses' whatever - if he can pull this/it off he is a genius. i will kowtow to him. Sudam tried to supplant U$ by asking his oil clients to pay in EURO instead the fiat $ - look what happened to him.

If everyone starts ditching the flakey dollar - would you dare to speculate what ll happen?

meanwhile i hear the Japs and the chinese are all long on the shiny metal. plus the ruskies have the world biggest hoard of the metal as well.
RUN for cover uncle sam's financial storms are headed this way and every way.
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The Global Impact of the Gold Dinar
By Philip Judge
9-30-3

This coming week, Malaysia plays host to a strategically important international conference entitled "GOLD INTERNATIONAL TRADE - Strategic Positioning in the Global Monetary System".
  
The stated objectives of the conference are clear and include discussions on the role of gold in international trade, gold-based financing mechanisms and the use of gold in international trade settlements.
  
Speakers include representatives from Islamic Development Bank, International Islamic University Malaysia, Central Bank of Iran, Bahrain Monetary Agency and Islamic Chambers of Commerce USA.
  
The keynote address will be delivered by Malaysia's Prime Minter, Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad, who has been a long-time advocate of the re-introduction of gold, and specifically the gold dinar as a major international currency; "Besides being a means of payment for one of the biggest and most homogenous communities in the world, the Islamic dinar is also seen by many people as the only real challenge to the US dollar." February 2002 (i)
  
The official conference website states; "1997 East Asian and numerous other financial crises worldwide made apparent the vulnerability of the current monetary system and the need for a more stable and just global monetary system. In fact, since the collapse of Bretton Woods in 1971, the world monetary system has been inflationary and volatile with the absence of a stable unit of account. . . gold in international trade is seen as a strategic move to protect the interest of nations as far as monetary stability, independence and justice are concerned." (emphasis ours) (ii)
  
Clearly, when considering monetary systems, stability is an important issue, but equally important, and one that is often overlooked, is the issue of justice. In many peoples mind, an international payment system based on gold addresses both these issues.
  
The last one hundred years has seen the major western economies steadily dismantle the classic gold standard internationally, and replace it with a "flexible" debt-based paper monetary system. We only have to look around to see that this system has had far-reaching and destructive implications globally, on many levels.
  
In the western world today, we have had 2-3 generations of people that don't know or understand gold or silver, have no experience with the precious metals from a monetary perspective, and have absolutely no comprehension of their value.
  
In the east however, the complete opposite is the case. The vast majority of the population understand that gold and silver are the only real money, while paper is just a promise to pay. Many are aware that the west has been able to simply print paper money and send it around the world to pay for its unquenchable consumer appetite for goods and services. Islamic Nations have experienced and witnessed 1st hand currency crisis as result of the international US dollar policy. They have recognised that the US dollar system has exported massive inflation, instability and unsustainable debt around the world. Islamic oil producing nations are well aware that they are exchanging a strategically important and diminishing asset for paper.
  
This viewpoint is reflected in a public statement made in late 2001 by the Islamic Mint, when gold dinar coins were released in the seven Emirates of United Arab Emirates from branches of Thomas Cook Exchange Company and the Dubai Islamic Bank, "because of the fundamental political consequences of the introduction of paper money instruments, the reintroduction of gold money can be expected to be an equally significant milestone in the changing tides of the world economic & social situation. . . there is no doubt that this work puts behind it a century of suffering and defeat for Muslims and opens the coming age to a powerful and revived Islam."
  
While it has gathered attention and support in recent years, the concept of using the Islamic dinar as day-to-day currency and an international settlement instrument is by no means a new concept, having its modern origins back in 1963. Some observers may claim that the driving force behind the re-introduction of the gold dinar is religiously motivated, while others will argue that it is stimulated more by an absence of any viable alternative. (iii)
  
The gold dinar, and the Islamic banking model in general, has several distinguishing features. It is governed by strict religious laws and principles, it has a clear implementation strategy, and importantly, is non-debt based (according to the Qur'an and the Hardith, the only lawful money is non-usurious gold and silver).
  
At a time when the west is greatly increasing the regulatory requirements of moving money, under Islamic law, there is total freedom to buy, sell and possess any quantity of Dinar. It has been said that money is like electricity and moves through the path of least resistance.
  
Whatever the outcome of this week's conference in Malaysia, there are some certainties. Geo-politically and monetarily we are moving into a time of rapid change. As a result of the un-sustainability, and the debt associated with this present fiat US dollar system, Islam has every reason to embrace a stable gold backed alternative, and are likely to do so at an ever more rapid rate.
  
For decades, the west has been artificially lowering the gold price through selling and leasing, in an effort to protect and manage a flawed and untenable paper monetary system. Meanwhile there is growing evidence that indicates eastern and Islamic nations have been quietly accumulating. The gold from the west has been transferring east, which is going to have huge geo-political ramifications in tomorrow's world.
  
Islam is a vast trading block of over 1.5 billion people that transcends political and geographical boundaries. In a world of limited tangible supply of gold, consider the effects on the gold and broader financial markets as these nations start to unload their US dollar reserves to implement such a monetary system.
  
Historically, it can be seen that military might does not save an empire that has debased its currency.
  
(i) Prime Minter, Datuk Seri Dr Mahathir Mohamad, February 2002
(ii) Source : <http://enm.iiu.edu.my/gold2003/>http://enm.iiu.edu.my/gold2003/
(ii) In l963 the 1st savings bank based on the Islamic ideal of profit-sharing was established in the a small Egyptian town. A more in-depth history is available from our 1998 article <http://www.anglofareast.com/0106.html>www.anglofareast.com/0106.html

Gold is gold, if you want to trade using it, there is no need to call it gold dinar or some fancy name.

anyhow, it definitely more troublesome to trade in gold than in currencies. The ideal option is for a centrally controlled electronic trading system accepted by all. So I don't see how the gold dinar will make any head room. Just like zero inflation.

go and read bretton woods lah.

gold dinar means currency backed by gold reserve lah. not carrying gold bars around your fat neck. not like uncle sam 's money printing press.

go and read some more leh b4 commenting.

Thats what I meant. Its not neccessary to give gold some fancy name like Gold Dinar. Anyway, I just don't think it will work, its best to free up gold for other purposes than have them stocked up in bars.

what d'u mean by `fancy` ... any currency has got to have a fancy name isn't it?

greenback, kiwi, euro, rupeeeeee, rupiah, popiah

I have to call them gold bullion. For many years we buy those fancy gold nuggests from Australia, Canada and South Africa.

I for myself go only by design and if the nugget's which always weights 1oz. ( I don't have that much money and I only buy one coin a year for my wife on our wedding day. In the beginning I went for diamonds but I have stopped for many years diamnonds, first due to Aparthaid regime in South Africa and then due to Israel, which ahs nothing to do to this posting and I wouldn't go in details.

What I admire most on Dr. M. that this guy is really trying to change how business is done. Due to the 97 crisis he pointed out that the Sorros funds
attacked the Ringgit. ( In 1993 the Malaysian Central Bank attacked with the UK and several other European banks the French Franc.

It all went wrong... Germany, the US and Japan assisted France and Malaysia lost billions of Ringgits. The Central Bank Governor was fired and Dr. M. made sure he had his people's now under control at the bank.

(THIS INFOS I RECEIVED FROM SEVERAL HIGH RANKING EXECUTIVES OF BANK BUMIPUTRA, WHICH ALWAYS WAS LINKED TO THE GOVERNMENT)

Since then they do not gamble more on currencies. FULL STOP AND I KNOW EVEN IF DR. M. RETIRES THIS MONTH, MR. BADAWI WILL HAVE A STRONG HAND ON THE CENTRAL BANK.

The ideas he try to do is not that bad. He really is trying hard to change the whole global system.

When the bailout of Thailand by the IMF occured in 1997, the former P.M. General Chavalit Yongchayuth resigned and Chuan Leckpai was appointed.

They followed the IMF plans which made the Thai people suffer a lot and even I was unemployed for a few months.

Thaksin Shinawatra a telecom tycon (largest shareholders Singapore Telecom) won the election in Thailand.

Everything until recently went well on the financial market.

Thailand's SET index doubled this year but since last week they have new laws that limits short selling.

(You want do gamble you must have the cash and local banks are no longer more able to execute orders if they know that those stock are for shortselling). Several hedge funds are already back in Thailand and the Thai Baht is very strong which hurts exports but makes imports cheaper.)

The KSA, UAE, Oman, Kuwait, Iran, Malaysia, Brunei, Turkey, Libya, Bahrain and Algeria could be the lead in getting something up and running.

Singapore (via the Monetary Authority) has larger gold reserves (not on papers) then all countries of ASEAN combined. In fact the value is several billion USD and what I heard before are that many of those bars are storaged underground in the DBS Bank HQ.

( I could be wrong but it came from foreign bankers of DG Bank but it is a few years already ago when I received this information and they closed the branch )

I am totally against gold trading just on papers. What will happened is that you have the same problems as you see on the stock market.

The pie in the global market trading market is very large. If the OIC summit in Putra Jaya would be a success they will announce a closer co-operation. A gold Dinar would be an option as the Mideast alone is a very large market and you
would talk at least a fund of 20 billion USD.

I am also against the trading against other indexes. It is pure gambling. I done that before made some money but lost it all again over a period of 2 months.

Currency hedging is even worse. I did that as well out from Hongkong Bank in Hong Kong and as well with Citibank in Singapore. My wife was really upset when I lost all those money which we saved over many years.

Politics is the biggest danger to currency speculating and both the IMF and World Bank are linked to US politics, as the US is the highest contributor to those funds or to the International Finance Corporation (IFC).

It is like business. We give you the money but what do we get back.

( Some advise is good. In Thailand due to the IMF they finally got the ball running in a Sales tax but they also come with push methods to open up the financial market etc. - The growth rate of a country actually reflects the dynamics of the country )

Over many years almost all Western governments have mismanged the economies due to pressure from Unions, Elections etc.

Who wants to listed to that bunch of liars ? Would you trust those bankers ?
Many large banks gamble against the Central Banks (they know exactly how many reserves they have - Thailand had about 27 billion USD when foreign banks and hedge funds attacked the Baht) - When the IMF bailed them out they lost 26.5 billion USD and only 500 million USD was left.

I am looking forward that some good news coming out of the OIC summit in ten days AND I still hope that one day the EAEC (East Asia Economic Caucus) will be launched with ASEAN, the People's Republic of China, Japan and Korea joining in.
If then India would also be able to join which would take at least 5 years after the launch you have the largest trade block in the world and are able to flex the mussles against the Western economics, financial insititutions etc.

I hope, I will have a chance to see. I am citizen of a Western country but my heard is with Asia and we all know that the 21st century will be linked to Asia.

10:39p ET Tuesday, September 30, 2003

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

Today Allianz Dresdner's Frank Veneroso, in his first
interview in four years, told the financial world,
through CBSMarketWatch's Thom Calandra, that the gold
market is being rigged by central banks as part of a
broader program of currency intervention.

This afternoon's Reuters story, appended here, about
today's intervention in the currency markets by the
Bank of Japan -- unusual because it was conducted
through the Federal Reserve Bank of New York --
suggests that others are getting wise to the
desperation afoot, that the program of currency
intervention may be meant less to weaken the yen
than to support the dollar, that the real perpetrator
of this intervention is the U.S. government, and that
the central bankers were so frightened of the dollar's
weakness today (and the corresponding rise in the
price of gold) that they couldn't wait even a few
hours for the sun to come up over Tokyo.

Note particularly the third-to-last and the second-to-last
paragraphs of the Reuters story below.

U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow says the U.S.
government wants foreign exchange rates to be set by
the free market -- and only hours later the New York Fed
is helping the Bank of Japan to rig them.

Of course this is old hat to GATA supporters. What's
important is that the rigging is getting so obvious that
even some financial managers and journalists are
catching on, and the rig won't be worth anything when
everybody finds out about it.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Japan finance ministry sold yen for dollars via NY Fed

By John Parry
3:21p ET Tuesday, September 30, 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030930/markets_yen_4.html

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Japan's Ministry of Finance sold
yen for dollars on the foreign exchange markets on
Tuesday, a ministry official said, acting through the U.S.
Federal Reserve in a move that jolted the dollar sharply
higher.

"Today we have conducted intervention through the New
York Federal Reserve Bank. It is dollar buying and yen
selling," the ministry official said.

It is quite unusual for the New York Fed to step in on
behalf of foreign central banks as it did on Tuesday.
The New York Fed declined to comment when asked
whether it was intervening, as is the U.S. central bank's
standard procedure.

The change of tack from Japan's MoF -- which of late
has not announced interventions at the time of taking
action -- sent an electric shock through currency
markets, delivering a message that the Bank of Japan
is keen to defend a new "line in the sand" below which
Japan aims to prevent the dollar weakening against
the yen, traders said.

"Below 110 yen, the BoJ (would have) got very nervous.
The BoJ's action allows it to re-peg the dollar between
111-115. But it would be very hard to put it back up to
115 yen," said Philip Capone, senior trader at Fortis
Bank in New York.

The Bank of Japan acts on behalf of the Ministry of
Finance in the event of currency market interventions.

The decision of the ministry to declare it had undertaken
intervention on the same day as it occurred breaks with
the approach the Japanese government had adopted for
several months of declining to comment.

"It reminds us that the BoJ is still going to be a presence
in the market and that they are willing to shift tactics to
remind people of that," said Daniel Katzive, foreign
exchange strategist with UBS in Stamford, Connecticut.
The BoJ "felt they had to so something a bit more
dramatic," he said.

The intervention also added a new twist to the fallout
since the Group of Seven of industrialized nations,
which includes Japan, called for more flexibility in
exchange rates in a joint communique just 10 days
ago.

For a long period, the BoJ defended the level of 115.0
yen to the dollar in its yen-weakening intervention.
But those efforts seemed to end earlier this month
when the dollar slipped decisively below that mark.

Earlier on Tuesday, the dollar had fallen to a three-year
low of 110.12 yen before leaping more than 1 yen in a
matter of minutes as rumors of central bank intervention
flew.

On Tuesday afternoon in New York, the dollar was buying
111.42 yen, up 0.5 percent on the day and steeply higher
than its three-year troughs hit shortly before the
intervention kicked in.

Japan may have been forced to intervene because the
dollar was being broadly punished following
weaker-than-expected U.S. economic data.

"It looks increasingly likely that 110 (yen) is the new
line in the sand," said Ian Stannard, foreign exchange
strategist at BNP Paribas in London.

"There is going to be this ongoing risk of unpredictable
BoJ activity. That should keep the risk a bit more
symmetrical" in the trading of the dollar against the
yen, said Katzive.

Some currency analysts said Japan's yen-weakening
interventions, coming so soon after the Group of Seven's
communique on Sept. 20th calling for more flexibility in
exchange rates was a de-facto rebuke to that statement.

In foreign exchange markets, the G7 statement was widely
viewed as pressuring China and Japan to desist from
artificial efforts to weaken their respective currencies.

"This makes a mockery of the G7 statement," said Neal
Kimberley, senior foreign exchange manager at Bank of
Tokyo-Mitsubishi in London.

Other strategists said Tuesday's intervention efforts,
reinforced by the Japanese confirmation, reflect some
concern by the U.S. government to check the dollar's
descent.

"What this (Japan's action) also implies is that the U.S.
Treasury will not allow the dollar to collapse," said
Capone.

A U.S. Treasury Department official declined on Tuesday
to comment on movements in the dollar.

>>>I am looking forward that some good news coming out of the OIC summit in ten days AND I still hope that one day the EAEC (East Asia Economic Caucus) will be launched with ASEAN, the People's Republic of China, Japan and Korea joining in. <<<

don't put to much hopes on japan and korea - they are the 52nd and 53rd states of amerika.

So how will trading in gold dinar help? Wouldn't that make it worst?

Baiduri Othman

Sorry guys, I don't have the time to read the above posts. But one thing, I do agree with the idea of the gold dinar. Doesn't matter whether it's PM Dr. Mahathir's idea or not! Who cares as long it works and the currency is stable! It's working on EURO!!! BTW SFE, are you jealous? Or are you feeling insecure abt your Sporean dollars? What happens to your economy?

Is the euro stable? Is gold stable? Does stability means good? Go ask the Argentinians.

Baiduri Othman

Of course, stability means good. Don't you think we're supposed to discuss abt the Sporean dollars instead? Afterall, this is the World Politics Forum.

Not true that stability means good. It ruined the Argentinian and Thai economy.

Baiduri Othman

So why don't elaborate and present facts here? No facts no talk SFE!

>>>Not true that stability means good. It ruined the Argentinian and Thai economy.<<<<

argentinian economy was killed by 2 things
* greedy and crminal politicians
* constant devaluation and eventually succumb to IMF.

don't cry for me argentina.

brazil next in line.

this world practise VOODOO economics - a favourite subject of the devil himself.

You are outdated whitepig. The Argentinian peso was pegged to the US dollar. It was the stability dragged it into recession.

b.s. if it was pegged to the US dollar - then hoe could it be devalued umpteenth times - are u an economist too?

Like I said, you have not been updated. The Argentianian peso did devalue wildly in the 80s, but they then took the opposite position and have it pegged to the US dollar in the 90s. Same goes for the Thai bhat. It was the peg to the USD in the 90s that messed up the Thai economy.

I'm not trying to belittle you my fren, but I suggest you do more research before you post further on economics issues.
BTW, have you ever taken any courses on basic economics? Any such courses will have a section on monetary policies.

the mad doctor from malaysia occassionally hit an inspired theme and the gold dinar project is one of them. of course the uncle sam will not be amused - it will mean an end to their right to an unlimited overdraft guaranteed by every surplus nation in the world, meaning the hardworking nations of asia.

this is one of the rare intellectually ideas coming from dr m. i wonder how he came by it - maybe the expensive education speculating currencies may yet give some belated returns to malaysia and non-american world!

i don't think uncle sam is just going to stand idly by WHY the world tried to get off the greenback bandwagon. Sadam tried trading oil in EURO - look what happened.