Singapore playing Newater card.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 4-4-2004 22:42:
good point ARI

i know ur article mentioned the agreement gonna end 2016 (i think).
nonetheless did malaysia ever sign a  water deal that gonna last for a life time with singapore?  :hmm ...

Dear sonny,

You are right, there is no water deal that last forever. Also, for more information, click on the above link. I have taken a portion of it to answer Deb's question. The full text is also in somewhere in this pages.

Debmey

Notice that the above posts plays around the bush but never answered the question.

Msia did shifted goal posts. Its a no go fromSingapore, we will not give in to such dishonest behavior, the price gets stuck at 3 sens.

Msia still has not explained how they can increase from 3 sens to RM6.25?
They want to compare rainwater that costs them nothing to desalinated water that is derived from sea water, in other words, they are unreasonable and greedy. I don't see any basis for comparison nor formula. Give them an inch, they want a mile. I suggest they go rob. HaHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA....................

We will agree to accept RM6.25 provided that Msia can show us that inflation ijncreased prices 200 times over 40 years.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 5-4-2004 08:51:
Notice that the above posts plays around the bush but never answered the question.

Msia did shifted goal posts. Its a no go fromSingapore, we will not give in to such dishonest behavior, the pri ...

Well, well, well. You see Debmey, first, it was 60 sen per 1000 gallon. You people didn't agree with it. You people insist that 45 sen now and 60 sen after 2011. We disagreed and had never agreed to it, that is our rights.

Malaysia did not shift goal post. Look at this, did you read the whole article completely???

In a letter dated April 11 2002, Singapore Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong himself proposed pegging the price of treated water from Johor to an agreed percentage of Singapore's cost of alternative sources of water, a pricing mechanism that could stand the test of time. And at the Malaysia-Singapore Ministerial meeting on July 1 and 2, 2002, Singapore's Foreign Minister Professor S. Jayakumar formally proposed pegging the price of treated water to an agreed percentage of the price of Singapore's NEWater.

Look who is talking??? Well, Debmey, if you think that we are robbers, well, JUST ASK YOUR GOVERNMENT NOT TO BUY MALAYSIAN WATER LAH!!! After all, your country is so called democracy what, the voice of the majority or the people. Or are you just scared?????

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 5-4-2004 at 06:46 PM ]

C-Fu

Rm6/3sens = 200 times.

Did prices go up 200 times over 40 years? Hahahahahahahahaha.........

Why don't yu try robbery? Its easier.

i remembered my gramps used to brag about how a glass of juice would cost him like 2-3 cents during his days. now its 2 3 bucks a glass. that's 100x increase.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by C-Fu at 5-4-2004 20:50:

i remembered my gramps used to brag about how a glass of juice would cost him like 2-3 cents during his days. now its 2 3 bucks a glass. that's 100x increase.

Ya lah!!! Debmey just don't understand.

1. If 3 sen per 1,000 gallons is a ridiculous price, it was Malaysia's own doing.

Singapore: In 1961, it was the Malaysians who decided to price the raw water from Johor at three sen. If the Malaysians are unhappy with the price, it is their own fault.

Malaysia: What has been omitted is the context. In July 1960, the first serious discussions took place between the then Federation of Malaya and Singapore regarding a possible merger.

At that time, the political situation in Singapore was volatile. In a July 1961 byelection, the PAP campaigned on a platform of merger with Malaysia. Unfortunately, the opposition Workers Party won the by-election.

After the by-election, 13 PAP assemblymen defected and joined the opposition to form "a new party on the extreme left of the political spectrum, the Barisan SoS***is".

"Thus is the course of three months, the (Singapore) Government had its voting strength reduced from 43 seats to a bare majority of 27 in the 51-member Assembly. More than anything else, this defection was the result of opposition to the PAP's policy toward union with Malaya." (Malaysian Politics by Gordon Means, pp 296-297) Undaunted, in August 1961, Lee Kuan Yew met Tengku Abdul Rahman for three days to draw up a preliminary agreement for merger. Mindful of the uphill battle the PAP faced in selling the merger proposal to Singapore voters, the Federation of Malaya decided to be generous on the issue of water and on other issues.

Debmey

I bought drinks at 20cents a cup thirty years ago, I buy them $1 per cup now. That would be a good gauge of how much inflation there is since the water treaty was signed.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 6-4-2004 21:19:
I bought drinks at 20cents a cup thirty years ago, I buy them $1 per cup now. That would be a good gauge of how much inflation there is since the water treaty was signed.

Oh, thirty years ago the water we sold to Singapore and now the water that we had sold to you people is still at the same price. It is your government which has been raising the price of your waters. This is what I heard, you people's water bill per cubic metre is much more expansive then our water bill in Johor per cubic metre. Well, this is what I heard. I "think" it is your government who is complaining about the water price because they want to profit more from the Singaporeans pockets. Do you know that Singapore water utility bill is very high and that the water we sell is very cheap??? Where does the extra money goes to. How come syarikat Air Johor who is selling us treated water can make profit and at the same time, the price is still low???? Where does the extra margin of your water bills and the water price in which Singapore bought water from Johor goes to???? Think boy!!!

Debmey

a treaty is a treaty, yu gotta honour yu damn treaties boy. Thats the way yu go.

cheers

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 7-4-2004 00:04:
a treaty is a treaty, yu gotta honour yu damn treaties boy. Thats the way yu go.

cheers

And we are exercising our rights now to review and raise the price of our waters to Singapore accordingly and fairly.

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 7-4-2004 02:11 PM:


And we are exercising our rights now to review and raise the price of our waters to Singapore accordingly and fairly.

Sorry to disappoint you, ariya. There is no way M'sia is going to get more than 3 sen unless Pak Lah makes a major concession before 2061 lah!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by MeeGoreng at 7-4-2004 17:43:


Sorry to disappoint you, ariya. There is no way M'sia is going to get more than 3 sen unless Pak Lah makes a major concession before 2061 lah!

Sorry I do not understand what you mean. Please explain in greater details, thank you. What do you mean by major concession? Anyway, the water price must be agreed by both. If both do not agree still, we have to go to arbitraration. Dr. M wanted to go already but Pak Lah said that he wants to give it another try regarding this matter after his excellency became PM.

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 7-4-2004 06:11 PM:


Sorry I do not understand what you mean. Please explain in greater details, thank you. What do you mean by major concession? Anyway, the water price must be agreed by both. If both d ...

M'sia wants to negotiate for more than 3 sen....AB must to offer "something" to trade....correct?  If Pak Lah dun wan to make any offer, then price stays at 3 sen...right? what u think?

aiyoh.........! never mind lah! neighbour mah!

Good neighbours dont blame each others; they solve problems through dialogue or arbitration.

[ Last edited by BobCat on 9-4-2004 at 11:40 AM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by MeeGoreng at 9-4-2004 09:03:


M'sia wants to negotiate for more than 3 sen....AB must to offer "something" to trade....correct?  If Pak Lah dun wan to make any offer, then price stays at 3 sen...right? what u think?

Please read this again. I have posted many times already and you all can refer to the previous pages.

[quote]
http://www.kempen.gov.my/water.htm

4. After agreeing more than once, Malaysia has repeatedly reneged and shifted the goal posts.

(a) from 45 Malaysian sen to 60 Malaysian sen per 1,000 gallons.

Singapore: "Six months later, however, in February 2001, Malaysia backtracked on the 45 sen agreement. Dr Mahathir said Johor believed that 60 sen was fair.

Singapore later offered a compromise: 45 sen for water now, and 60 sen for water after 2011.

In March 2002, Malaysia sent Singapore a shocker. It wanted 60 sen for water now and it wanted the price backdated to 1986 and 1987.

Not only that, it also wanted RM3 for water from 2007 to 2011. From 2011 onwards, the price would be adjusted yearly for inflation." (Singapore Ministry of Information, Communications and the Arts, 2003 Water Talks? If Only It Could page 8.)

Malaysia: Malaysia has never accepted Singapore's offer of 45 sen per 1,000 gallons. So the question of backtracking does not arise. In his letter dated Feb 21, 2001, Dr Mahathir said Johor believed that 60 sen was a fair price. Nowhere in the letter does Dr Mahathir suggest the 60 sen price should be applicable after 2011.

Dr Mahathir wrote: "Johor is agreeable to revisions in the price of raw water that it now supplies to Singapore and the treated water that it buys from Singapore. The price of raw water that it sells to other Malaysian States should not be a basis for determining the price of raw water. There are elements of subsidies to this supply.

"Johor believes that a fair price would be 60 sen (per 1,000 gallons per day of raw water). The price should be reviewed every five years." It is clear from Dr Mahathir's letter that the proposed price of 60 sen was for now, for the immediate time frame

ariya, wat u think M'sian PM can offer so tat SG will agree to pay more than 3 sen?

Oh my God????::::::::::::::::

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by MeeGoreng at 13-4-2004 19:06:
ariya, wat u think M'sian PM can offer so tat SG will agree to pay more than 3 sen?

you don't get it? Well, Lew Kuan Yew agreed that a rise is a must and it is appropriate but he suggested that it be rised to RM 0.45. Malaysia disgree with it and they start saying Malaysia shift goal post when we did not. Singapore should agree with our terms as they are buying water from us, not from them.

Debmey

We do not agree to RM6.25. ie. yu hav to stick to the old price lah cos yu are too greedy.

cheers

ariya, stop beating round the BUSH.

S'pore agreed to pay more than 3 sen if m'sia can offer something to exchange, to trade, to negotiate, to give in return for more wang into your pocket...u understand? yes? no ?

You have not told us what m'sai can offer, have you?

m'sia should go straight for arbitration for more money? yes?  no?