Can Asia unite?

Sephiroth

It's true ... Chinese are extreme in enjoying ... but they are extreme at planning their lives properly as well.

Most youngsters want to have a degree, get his/her own apartment and then settle down. They want to secure living first before marriage and family.

Even Indians nowadays are marrying at older age and the wives are going to work to help out or even conduct small businesses at home to help the family financially.

Solution? This is not disease which we can find a cure easily. You cannot cure Muslims from their own laziness and Malays (genetically speaking) have been one of the laziest group in Asia. Which is why not many old kingdoms in malaya lasted more than couple of hundred of years.

Malays seems to have an attitude of "Kais pagi makan pagi, kais petang makan petang" - if they have something to eat, they swallow otherwise, it's fate kind of crap. They are not willing to work hard and happy to sit in the same place for ever.

For the very first time I agree with Seph抯 point of view when he talked about how lazy malay people are. It is kinda ashamed  to admit that im part of Malay thinking about how bad is the attitute.  This is a wake up call or a warning alert from someone who is a non-malay to malay community. Do not dream the sweetest dream or become 揗at Jenin

One thing i realised that malay people like to compete among themselve in unnecessary things for instance if his neighbour buys a new imported car, he wants to do the same eventhough he cant afford to pay the monthly installment to the bank or they like to spend their money to buy branded things unlike chinese people who prefer to travel abroad to widen their knowledge about foreign language, culture & technology. The malay wowen like to buy & show off their gold bracelets or accessories  but never give them up for the sake of  children's education unlike chinese people who willing to mortgage their house or land to send their children to overseas to further their studies. Isnt it a good investment? Malays also have tendency of becoming jealous among themselve which i think is not healthy BUT they never want to compete or become jealous of other people's success especially the chinese community. They should change their attitudes and learn something more from the chinese!

[ Last edited by WICKED on 29-5-2004 at 12:23 PM ]

NO!
Many reasons: cultural difference, religious difference, race issues, political difference, geography difference, economy difference, goal difference, gender bias, education difference, languages differences ect ect

If all this differences can be set aside then unity may be possible.

Sephiroth

Unity is possible when

1. everyone minds their own business and do not disturb others and their practises.

2. when a group in a country do not betray the country just because they are from different religion and background.

3. when one group do not expect others to support them.

You have your lives, we have ours. You live yours and we will live ours and peace will exists. As for unity ... we will start slowly when peace exists.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 28-5-2004 12:02:
by WICKED

In that way his responses are more convincing? he has projected to everyone of us how he hates Islam. Do you anti-Islam as well to agree with his response?

No ... I'm telli ...

I tell you this Sephiroth, your accusation that muslims are not from Asia, I say that you are wrong. Muslim and Christian comes from the same place. Also, I tell you that most of the Arab countries are in the Asian Continent. One is Asian or not is not based on ones faith or religion but based on his geografical source. If his roots are from Asia, don't care if he is a MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN or JEWISH or HINDU, he is still an Asian. Just like YAB TUN DR. MAHATHIR MOHAMAD is a muslim and also an Asian, a true Asian worrior and hero.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 28-5-2004 13:39:
by WICKED

do you have any proof? give me examples to show that non muslims from Indian community hold more on economic? what contribution indians have done for our economy?

There is  ...

First of all, do you study history. Melaka was founded by Parameswara from Palembang a place in now we called Indonesia. That time he was not a muslim when he opened and ruled Melaka as his kingdom. Later with the royal rulers converted to Islam which came from the ASIAN SIDE of Arab thus it was then ruled in such, with other places also the same. As for Johor and Perak, their original rulers are from the decedent of the Melaka sultanate. Also, the whole Peninsular malaysia also once became the Melaka empire.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 24-5-2004 11:05:
by ariyamusafir

Chinese many their marriages ceremony also adopt Western style already but that does not make them less Asian.

How do you know? How many Chinese weddings to you atten ...

First of all, I answer according to what I read and reply. I have no time to read all then try to remember what I have to reply.

Second, as I have said, being an Asian or not has nothing to do with religion. In fact, Asia is a continent and Asians are the inhabitants of it. Islam and Christian came from the Asian side of Arab am I not right? Also, the very thing of wearing western style wedding gown and going to churches and wearing exposing gown is already not in line with the original chinese traditions. Not to insult other religion but just trying to say that even wedding in church that couple can still be an Asian to let you know about the thing I am trying to say, in reply to your attack on Muslims. Also. Islam is FROM ASIAN SIDE OF ARAB. Correct me if I am wrong with evidence.

Sephiroth

by ariyamusafir

I tell you this Sephiroth, your accusation that muslims are not from Asia, I say that you are wrong. Muslim and Christian comes from the same place. Also, I tell you that most of the Arab countries are in the Asian Continent. One is Asian or not is not based on ones faith or religion but based on his geografical source. If his roots are from Asia, don't care if he is a MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN or JEWISH or HINDU, he is still an Asian.  

Same as what Wicked already spoke. No need to reply to you separately.

As for Christians, I have already had this discussion with Debmey/SFE last time when he claims he was a Chinese Christian. And there, I have shown that being Chinese means having your family altar in your house to honor your forefathers and if one doesn't honor his forefathers, he is not a Chinese but a Christian.

Christians are quiet because they know what I have said is true. You don't need to add oil onto what you think is fire since the fire itself have been extingushed long time ago. ;)

Just like YAB TUN DR. MAHATHIR MOHAMAD is a muslim and also an Asian, a true Asian worrior and hero.  

Hmph ... IF you want to kiss Muslims a$$, little Boy, that is your choice. ;)

If you say Mahathir said something, SHOW IT HERE like Wicked did. Other wise, don't claim it so.

As for being a Warrior ... do me a favour ... don't repeat the same mistake of placing this traitors to their own nations and suicidal maniacs to warriors of Asian region. Final Warning. :agr:


First of all, do you study history. Melaka was founded by Parameswara from Palembang a place in now we called Indonesia. That time he was not a -muslim when he opened and ruled Melaka as his kingdom. Later with the royal rulers converted to Islam which came from the ASIAN SIDE of Arab thus it was then ruled in such, with other places also the same. As for Johor and Perak, their original rulers are from the decedent of the Melaka sultanate. Also, the whole Peninsular malaysia also once became the Melaka empire.

Right ... Parameswara was a Hindu, not a Muslim. The people (the Bumiputeras) there weren't Muslims when Melaka came about. Same thing with Johor where the people there weren't Muslims till Sultans from Melaka ran there and started a new kingdom.  This means that there were people in Semanjung before Melaka and they were following various beliefs. It only means that Muslims are not Bumiputeras.


Second, as I have said, being an Asian or not has nothing to do with religion. In fact, Asia is a continent and Asians are the inhabitants of it. Islam and Christian came from the Asian side of Arab am I not right? Also, the very thing of wearing western style wedding gown and going to churches and wearing exposing gown is already not in line with the original chinese traditions. Not to insult other religion but just trying to say that even wedding in church that couple can still be an Asian to let you know about the thing I am trying to say, in reply to your attack on Muslims. Also. Islam is FROM ASIAN SIDE OF ARAB. Correct me if I am wrong with evidence.

What evidence do you present that you can demand one from me? ;)

Being Asian means following the tradition and beliefs of Asian people. Even if you set religion aside, you still have tradition and beliefs to show you what identify you are, just like the article by Dr. M said (refer to Wicked's post).

You claims that marrying in a church still makes an Asian an Asian. WRONG, if you marry in a Church, you are a Christian. Case Closed.

As for my attacks on Islam ... UNLESS you are a Muslim, I don't see why I have to entertain your post anymore. The person I wanted to speak to was Wicked and he had finished his debate with a link to Dr. M's speech and I have not answered it because I feel it is enough.

John Lennon

I think most chinese like to extremely enjoy at some time..It's like when work they work and when they enjoy..they really enjoy.. Anyway i knew some Chinese youths taking soft drugs also..

I woud like to add that another problem with Muslims are their extreme conservatism. They don't like the fact non-Muslims dedah sana-sini, practice free sex, gamble, take drugs and such. In fact, they like to INTERFERE and have their say on people's private lives.

Which explains why majority of rape cases, incest and paedophile practices are Malay Muslim;)

Sephiroth

by John Lennon

I woud like to add that another problem with Muslims are their extreme conservatism. They don't like the fact non-Muslims dedah sana-sini, practice free sex, gamble, take drugs and such. In fact, they like to INTERFERE and have their say on people's private lives.

Which explains why majority of rape cases, incest and paedophile practices are Malay Muslim  

Hmph ... makes senses.

A friend of mine asked me to go to disco some time ago and I told him that I don't like to go because I have a senstive ears and nose (easily get annoyed by loud noises and awful smells). He asked me whether it is really reason or just excuse.

He also said this "You cannot advise others, especially young ones about good and bad if you do not experiment what is good and bad."

Most Muslims (and some Christians) are too strict with the topic of Sex. They feel whenever two people get together, it is for sex. However, in Muslim society, it does come true. ;)

Don't know why ... I always stay late in my office with a lot of pretty fellows and no one yet to "rape" me. :bgrin:

>>Don't know why ... I always stay late in my office with a lot of pretty fellows and no one yet to "rape" me.

<<<

wait till they hire a bayee .. better face your butt to the wall

Their interference with good intention is welcome. If their interference to provoke & resulted in discontent is undesirable...

In fact, we have to start acknowledge moral degradation in our society.

There are many  rape cases, incest and paedophile practices being done by people regardless their races and beliefs but they try to hush up the matter as if it is normal thing to them unlike muslims cases being exposed in the media because such practices are considered as sins and need to be punished by islamic law we called syariah law hoping that with such stories being published we can take them as a lesson to other muslims. anyway what makes u bring up this topic and what  it has to do with unification of asia?

Don't know why ... I always stay late in my office with a lot of pretty fellows and no one yet to "rape" me.

same goes to me..nobody "rape" me so far eventhough they are pretty faces whom I know few of them  admire me, I can  take advantage of the situation but i choose not to!  it depends on our own determination or "niat"  whether to "rape" or to be "raped"!

:lol

If they are really interested in you, the word rape is not required. Its called affair. Sshhhh....

yes i know but i just follow the rhytm..isnt the word "rape" is being used by Seph unless if seph is a woman I can understand why seph used that word!
btw we were talking about rape cases, incest & paedophile!

[ Last edited by WICKED on 31-5-2004 at 01:59 PM ]

vixen

Which explains why majority of rape cases, incest and paedophile practices are Malay Muslim

Incest cases are especially high,what's worse is that there are a lot more cases that are unreported.

Seraphim

Although the probability of incest is higher Malays compared to Chinese and Indians..I wonder why???:hmm:

[ Last edited by Seraphim on 31-5-2004 at 11:25 PM ]

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 2004-5-30 12:13 AM:


I tell you this Sephiroth, your accusation that muslims are not from Asia, I say that you are wrong. Muslim and Christian comes from the same place. Also, I tell you that ...

Ariyamusafir,

Do not get so worked up because of this discussion. How does it matter if someone want to think something you are not?? If you are Chinese, remember that our cultural heritage is extremely rich and deep. As long as you do not turn your back onto it, you will not lose your identity.

Consider the million of young enterprising Chinese in China now. They would like everyone know that they are the hub of advancement and a lot of them have turn their back on their 'roots and traditions'. In fact, one of my housemate is like that, branding those traditions as 'superstitions'. This phenomenon is most evident in major cities in China and only those adhering to the Confucian values can be found in remotes/less-developed areas. So, if you construe Seph's argument literally, if a person is an atheist and considers these traditions as 'superstitions', s/he is not Chinese and neither Muslim/Christian/Buddhist, then what is s/he? A gwailoh??

For those seriously interested in this discussion, I would suggest reading this article as a background understanding of the issue:

http://www.oswego.edu/~pan/h383m ... nielsen_zangari.htm

I have only glance through it but I think this portion of the article is pertinent to the present discussion:

"The  traditional 17th century Chinese social structure was rigidly ruled by Confucian relationships, so the disillusionment with Confucianism left the roles of the family vague at best.  Chueh-hui is a prime example of how the 1911 Revolution affected traditional family roles.  While Cheuh-hui is young enough to be caught up in the movement, he reevaluates his role in the family and vows to not end up a slave to filial piety like his older brother.  The movement to 'Westernize' some families to move away from the 'we' and think in terms more related to 'me.'  This deviation from traditional family relationships was most noticeable in the urban areas, because the rural areas still greatly relied on the family farms, so a traditional way of life was not easily altered.  The Revolution 憌esternized

Confucian values permeates all life. Remember that Confucius sought to govern a country to bring his ideology to good use. He travelled from city to city. Country to country for more than a decade. When he failed, each time he teaches in the rural areas.

I am an ardent Confucian devotee. In fact, many Confucians today (excluding China) are all living in cities. Confucianism is not a religion but a philosophy that complements Taoism. Chinese even includes Confucian rites into Buddhism. It is not surprising of Christianity is Confucianized.

Many governments adheres to Confucian governance. Anwar Ibrahim once called for a ruling based on Confucian values. So is Thailand, Singapore, Taiwan... in fact, United Nation once called for it as a model of governance.

Japanese are very westernized. However, they are still strictly adheres to Confucian values & their culture. South Korean are very modern. They still stick to Confucian values tenaciously. So is Taiwan.

If a person cannot takes care of his family, it would be the bane of the government. How much costs are needed to care for elder citizens? What goes round will comes round. We in the end will have to bear the responsibility. Government will organize charity to get donations. Many European countries are facing ageing population crisis. Singapore organizes several charity shows a year to get donations which their government is unable to cover.

Being self-centred breaks the system. Taking care of family is akin to taking care of the country. Family is the basic unit that makes up a country. If each family failed to care for its members we will get many more homeless elderly & beggers. Someone has to pay. If not the government or strangers.

Definitely each individual has to inculcate a sense of responsibility. Of course. If each person is able to takes care of him/herself, there won't be unnecessary inconvenience occur like beggars & homeless elderly. However, giving assistance to own family members is of utmost importance & a responsibility determined by fate.