Can Asia unite?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by WinterNights at 1-6-2004 05:12:


Ariyamusafir,

Do not get so worked up because of this discussion. How does it matter if someone want to think something you are not?? If you are Chinese, remember that our cultural heritage  ...

What actually I want to stress is that being an Asian or not has nothing to do with RELIGION. Asia is a continent, an area or place, it is geografical and has nothing to do with religion. Anyone can be an Asian, even a cannibal can be an Asian so long as he and his ancestors are inhabitants of the Asia continent but Sephiroth doesn't seem to understand the real meaning of Asia and Asian and he keeps associating an Asian and religion which is IRRELEVANT. Asian ARE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF ASIA, NOT ASSOCIATED WITH RELIGION SEPHIROTH. GET IT?

Sephiroth

by ariyamusafir

What actually I want to stress is that being an Asian or not has nothing to do with RELIGION. Asia is a continent, an area or place, it is geografical and has nothing to do with religion. Anyone can be an Asian, even a cannibal can be an Asian so long as he and his ancestors are inhabitants of the Asia continent but Sephiroth doesn't seem to understand the real meaning of Asia and Asian and he keeps associating an Asian and religion which is IRRELEVANT. Asian ARE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF ASIA, NOT ASSOCIATED WITH RELIGION SEPHIROTH. GET IT?

This kind of stupidity is the reason why I said (and still says) you are not a Buddhist but an Muslim imposter pretending to be a Buddhist. :spd:

Came back when you know the real meaning to the word Asia and learn the real values of Asians, Imposter.

Perhaps we should say "what makes us Asian". If the people that inhabits this continent lives an alien life, it makes no geographical significance.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 1-6-2004 10:12:
by ariyamusafir

What actually I want to stress is that being an Asian or not has nothing to do with RELIGION. Asia is a continent, an area or place, it is geografical and has nothing to do w ...

What you mean by Imposter???? HAVE YOU SEEN ME???? HOW YOU KNOW I AM AN IMPOSTER???? I AM MERELY REVEALLING YOUR ERROR ON YOUR DEFINITION ON YOU MEANING OF ASIAN AND ASIA WHICH IS BASED ON GEOGRAFICAL MEANS AND FOR NO REASON YOU CALL ME AN IMPOSTER???? THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE ORIGINAL INHABITANS OF ASIA WHO ARE UNCIVILISED IN THE PAST A LONG LONG TIME AGO ARE ALSO ASIANS THOUGH THAT TIME THERE ARE NO CIVILISATION YET. WHY DO YOU SUDDENLY CALL ME AN IMPOSTER???? HINDU AND BUDDHISM IS VERY DIFFERENT AND YOU CLAIM TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM AND I HAVE EXPLAINED SOME OF YOUR ERRORS IN EXLAINING ABOUT BUDDHISM IN MANY THINGS OF COURSE I DO NOT REPRESENT ANY THING BUT WHAT THE HACK YOU CALL ME AN IMPOSTER??? YOU THING YOU ARE THE ONLY NON-IMPOSTER IS IT???? YOU THINK YOU ARE ORIGINAL IS IT????? UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN ME IN A MESJID OR UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN ME FACE TO FACE, OTHERWISE, ........!!!!!! TELL YOU WHAT, YOU WANT TO SEE IF I AM A MUSLIM OR NOT, I WILL BE IN WANGSA MAJU, NEAR TAR COLLEGE, THE COLLEGE I AM STUDYING BUT NO MORE BUT WILL BE IN WM TO MEET MY FRIEND AND PAKAI SELUAR KONG FU SELIPAR AND T -SHIRT SUKAN WITH PURPLE PATTERN IN ONE OF THE CYBER CAFE IF YOU CAN'T SEE ME IN THE LRT. COME MEET ME AND I WILL MAKE YOU EAT YOUR OWN WORDS. IF I AM WRONG, I DON'T MIND YOU BREAKING UP MY LEG AND LIMBS AND TEAR ME APART. COME AND EAT YOUR OWN WORDS IN WANGSA MAJU, BOY!!!! I THOUGH I HAVE MADE AN AGREEMENT WITH YOU THAT WE WILL NOT HIT ON EACH OTHER USING SENSITIVE ISSUES AND IN FACT, IN EXPLAINING THIS, I DID NOT MUCH DO MANY CLAIMS IN THIS THREAD AND YET YOU COME MAKING SLANDEROUS RAMARKS???? COME AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHO I AM!!!!!! THAT IS IF YOU DARE.


NON-SEPHIROTH, STAY OUT OF THIS.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 1-6-2004 10:19:
Perhaps we should say "what makes us Asian". If the people that inhabits this continent lives an alien life, it makes no geographical significance.

That is why I said, ORIGINAL INHABITANTs and in some others, still residing such as you and me.

Sephiroth

by ariyamusafir

What you mean by Imposter???? HAVE YOU SEEN ME???? HOW YOU KNOW I AM AN IMPOSTER???? I AM MERELY REVEALLING YOUR ERROR ON YOUR DEFINITION ON YOU MEANING OF ASIAN AND ASIA WHICH IS BASED ON GEOGRAFICAL MEANS AND FOR NO REASON YOU CALL ME AN IMPOSTER????

No error ... ALL that need to be said have been said to Wicked who brought this thread and both of us have finished this discussion peacefully. I don't see why I need to explain anything to you from scratch.

HINDU AND BUDDHISM IS VERY DIFFERENT AND YOU CLAIM TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM AND I HAVE EXPLAINED SOME OF YOUR ERRORS IN EXLAINING ABOUT BUDDHISM IN MANY THINGS OF COURSE I DO NOT REPRESENT ANY THING BUT WHAT THE HACK YOU CALL ME AN IMPOSTER???

I don't remember you correcting any of my "mistakes". I just nod to your wishs in PM just so you won't disturb me. Checking e-mails and PM is one thing I really hate doing.

YOU THING YOU ARE THE ONLY NON-IMPOSTER IS IT???? YOU THINK YOU ARE ORIGINAL IS IT?????

You see any other Sephiroth around here? ;)

UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN ME IN A MESJID OR UNLESS YOU HAVE SEEN ME FACE TO FACE, OTHERWISE, ........!!!!!! TELL YOU WHAT, YOU WANT TO SEE IF I AM A MUSLIM OR NOT, I WILL BE IN WANGSA MAJU, NEAR TAR COLLEGE, THE COLLEGE I AM STUDYING BUT NO MORE BUT WILL BE IN WM TO MEET MY FRIEND AND PAKAI SELUAR KONG FU SELIPAR AND T -SHIRT SUKAN WITH PURPLE PATTERN IN ONE OF THE CYBER CAFE IF YOU CAN'T SEE ME IN THE LRT. COME MEET ME AND I WILL MAKE YOU EAT YOUR OWN WORDS. IF I AM WRONG, I DON'T MIND YOU BREAKING UP MY LEG AND LIMBS AND TEAR ME APART. COME AND EAT YOUR OWN WORDS IN WANGSA MAJU, BOY!!!!

Hmph ... No need. I don't date. :bgrin:

I THOUGH I HAVE MADE AN AGREEMENT WITH YOU THAT WE WILL NOT HIT ON EACH OTHER USING SENSITIVE ISSUES AND IN FACT, IN EXPLAINING THIS, I DID NOT MUCH DO MANY CLAIMS IN THIS THREAD AND YET YOU COME MAKING SLANDEROUS RAMARKS???? COME AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHO I AM!!!!!! THAT IS IF YOU DARE.

There is no such agreement. You asked me to PM you if there is some misunderstanding between us and frankly speaking, there is no misunderstanding here. I move away from a discussion which is over (which is why this thread has 9 pages) and don't see why I have to entertain anyone else and it is you who chase after me with what seems to be a challenge.

The creator of this thread, Wicked have finished with me (since he didn't address anything else) and I have finished with him. Case Closed. Nothing else need to be said.

NON-SEPHIROTH, STAY OUT OF THIS.

Others can do whatever they want because I'm leaving. Have a nice day. ;)

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 1-6-2004 10:42:
by ariyamusafir

What you mean by Imposter???? HAVE YOU SEEN ME???? HOW YOU KNOW I AM AN IMPOSTER???? I AM MERELY REVEALLING YOUR ERROR ON YOUR DEFINITION ON YOU MEANING OF ASIAN AND ASIA WHI ...

Why, chicken out is it????? Dare not is it??????? I am a man of my word and when I say serious things mean it and when I say I am not imposter, I mean it and I dare to prove it. I have the balls to prove it! Do you dare. Don't worry, you need not reveal yourself. You see me and my friend talking and you will know. You can be near me without letting me know that is you. Are you chicken out to find out the truth?? If you are so afraid, then don't make any remarks without you having knowing it first, otherwise, if it is the opposite, you will be making a slanderous ramarks or a lie. Buddha teaches us never to lie, never to make slanderous remarks, and also I think in hinduism, you are also thought not to lie, unless you are a rogue follower or.... Of course we are not perfect and there are many believers and followers still lie, however, it is wrong for you to call one imposter.

I will be wearing shorts green-blue in colour and t-shirt sukan with green pattern near BRJ, one of the CC soon after 12.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 1-6-2004 10:42:
by ariyamusafir

What you mean by Imposter???? HAVE YOU SEEN ME???? HOW YOU KNOW I AM AN IMPOSTER???? I AM MERELY REVEALLING YOUR ERROR ON YOUR DEFINITION ON YOU MEANING OF ASIAN AND ASIA WHI ...

That is why I said you are dumb. I CREATED this thread and not WICKED. Check out at the main World Politics page and see who crated it. Such slight and simple thing, you can also make wrong comments what more others. Suche slight and simple thing you cannot bother to really observe and what more others in which you are in many a great deal wrong but you think you are right, that you are the smartest but actually you are not.

Sephiroth

Hmph ... My apologizes ... you created it but it was Wicked who discussed with me here on the topic at hand. The Discussion is over between me and him.

If you want to start a new one, crawl up someone else's legs. Thank You. ;)

ACH,

Confucian values permeates all life. Remember that Confucius sought to govern a country to bring his ideology to good use. He travelled from city to city. Country to country for more than a decade. When he failed, each time he teaches in the rural areas.

I am an ardent Confucian devotee. In fact, many Confucians today (excluding China) are all living in cities. Confucianism is not a religion but a philosophy that complements Taoism. Chinese even includes Confucian rites into Buddhism. It is not surprising of Christianity is Confucianized.

--> I do not deny the influence of Confucian values on the Asianitic societies. However, as I have pointed out, these values are not immutable. They have gone through a process of evolution and this is evidenced by the consequences of the Cultural Revolution. At this point, I am speaking from a Chinese perspective because that is my ethnic origin. If you want to get a clearer picture, you should read up the evolution of traditional customs over the past centuries.

The underlying reason for my post, is partly based on Seph's contention that the identity of Asian is lost upon embracing either Abrahamic religions. Thus, I am making the comparison that if that were true, then as a process of change/evolution of Confucian values, those practising those values have also lost their identity.

Japanese are very westernized. However, they are still strictly adheres to Confucian values & their culture. South Korean are very modern. They still stick to Confucian values tenaciously. So is Taiwan.

If a person cannot takes care of his family, it would be the bane of the government. How much costs are needed to care for elder citizens? What goes round will comes round. We in the end will have to bear the responsibility. Government will organize charity to get donations. Many European countries are facing ageing population crisis. Singapore organizes several charity shows a year to get donations which their government is unable to cover.

--> Like I have said, the influence of Confucian values continues to be evident in most Asianitic societies, although at varying degrees and dilution/modification. You mentioned the Japanese society, which I think is an excellent example. Their cultural upbringing is 'stunted' by the progess they are making in the modern day of IT and economics. However, this fact is diminishing at a rate, slowly but surely. Their rise from World War 2 is evident by the contributions made by either scholars or warriors of the past(e.g. Miyamoto Musashi) yet if you compare the contrasting behaviour patterns of the 50s to that of today, you will see a very drastic change. That being said, have they lost their Asian identity?

Adding a gloss to that, the infusion of Abrahamic faiths, does not erode these values but yet enhance this. This is not a process of 'Confucianization' of these faiths, rather it is the opposite. Respect to elders is a common and fundamental virtue of society. Whether it comes from the mouth of Confucious or Jesus, it demonstrates the very basic element of humanity. Of course, the distinguishing factor in this, as you pointed out, is that one is a philosophy and another is a religion.

Being self-centred breaks the system. Taking care of family is akin to taking care of the country. Family is the basic unit that makes up a country. If each family failed to care for its members we will get many more homeless elderly & beggers. Someone has to pay. If not the government or strangers.

Definitely each individual has to inculcate a sense of responsibility. Of course. If each person is able to takes care of him/herself, there won't be unnecessary inconvenience occur like beggars & homeless elderly. However, giving assistance to own family members is of utmost importance & a responsibility determined by fate.

--> I agree that the family unit is the pinnacle of the Asianitic society, specifically Chinese. Yet, as I have pointed out, there is a change in this thought methodology. Yes, this value of family is still practised quite religiously in many parts of Asia, however there are cracks in this value. It is not obvious now but in 50 years time, who can say the same?

Going back to the point of the influences of religions. By embracing a religion, an Abrahamic religion for example, these values of family integrity, respecting elders or ancestors, loyalty to country, cultural celebrations and many more do not just disappear. Respect can come in many ways but it is not the form...rather the substance that is important. To illustrate, respecting ancestors, a typical Chinese culture. While Taoist/Buddhist respect their ancestors by burning paper money and offering food, others do not do this. However, respect is duly given by taking care of the burial site, remembering the deeds and moments when they were alive and giving thanks for their contributions that led us to be who we are today.

[ Last edited by WinterNights on 1-6-2004 at 08:46 PM ]

Sephiroth

by WinterNights

The underlying reason for my post, is partly based on Seph's contention that the identity of Asian is lost upon embracing either Abrahamic religions. Thus, I am making the comparison that if that were true, then as a process of change/evolution of Confucian values, those practising those values have also lost their identity.

Confucism is had become part of everyday's life, it is not like religion which one get damned if he/she doesn't do. There is no "haram/halal" in Confucism just good ADVICE to people by Lao Tze.

Honor your parents.
Be Virtues and Honest.

and so much more is a good advice and one can follow it even when one doesn't have to be a Chinese or a Confucios followers.

However, that is not same with Abrahamic Religions. No matter what good advice your forefathers gave you for some particular reason, IF it doesn't tally with Muhammad's way of Life or Bible, then it will be discarded.

That is why I said Asian people lost their roots when one embrace Abrahamic Religions. And it same to those in Western world as well. You can see a lot of white men coming to learn Asian values for the same reason. They recognise that Asians have something in them which makes them stronger - Spiritually and mentally. That something is IDENTITY ... a sense of knowing that you came from somewhere and you have others who are same like you.

Last Sunday, those who watch Samurai Jack (one of my favorite) could understand this well. Jack broke his wooden shoes and one of the shopkeepers gave him option that he could choose anything he want from the store.

Jack continue to choose different shoes for various reasons ... modern, tough and etc but in the end, nothing matched a pair of wooden shoes like the one he had one before. Do you know WHY? Because that shoe, like Asian values are weather beaten, well-thought and suitable for all occasions.

Confucism is had become part of everyday's life, it is not like religion which one get damned if he/she doesn't do. There is no "haram/halal" in Confucism just good ADVICE to people by Lao Tze.

Honor your parents.
Be Virtues and Honest.

and so much more is a good advice and one can follow it even when one doesn't have to be a Chinese or a Confucios followers

--> You mentioned that Confucianism has become part of everyday life in Asia. Yet, I have pointed out that this principle/philosophy/advise has undergone systematic dilution/modification over time and this principle has underlying overtones from principles 'borrowed' from other moral systems. 'Absolute' Confucian values are not evident nowadays.

Again, I believe you are looking at the 'results' of the teachings of religions to conclude the scope of identity. These two spheres are different both in context and application. One can be a Buddhist or Shinto, that is the individuals' decision on the principles they want to adopt in life. However, the path they choose to walk on does not contradict the identity they bear. In other words, I may disagree with you on the interpretation of a picture but that does not make us any humanly different.

Likewise, being Chinese and a Christian is definitely possible.   

However, that is not same with Abrahamic Religions. No matter what good advice your forefathers gave you for some particular reason, IF it doesn't tally with Muhammad's way of Life or Bible, then it will be discarded.

--> Firstly, this matter is complex at its core for although Islam and Christianity may share the same 'ultimate' source, it is worlds apart and to generalize them together would to err in understanding the conceptual application of either religions on modern day life. To put it rather simple(and unfortunately inadequate), while the Islamic faith emphasize more on form, Christianity does not. This means that the emphasis of actions concentrates more on the effect, rather than the form of actions.  

Secondly, in relation to your quote above, I believe you have miscontrued it. I will explain. Every generation that passes involves a modification in values practiced. For example, my grandparents were of the notion that boys(males) are the 'pride' of a family where girls(females), although they won't drown them in a river, girls to them are considered 'better to serve men in the house only'. Now, what is the source of this thinking? My parents and their generation have completely abandoned this form of thinking regardless of whatever faith they have embraced(in fact, one of my uncle is a very staunch Buddhist). So, does this mean that because they have 'abandoned' this 'typical' Chinese practise, they are no longer Chinese?

That is why I said Asian people lost their roots when one embrace Abrahamic Religions. And it same to those in Western world as well. You can see a lot of white men coming to learn Asian values for the same reason. They recognise that Asians have something in them which makes them stronger - Spiritually and mentally. That something is IDENTITY ... a sense of knowing that you came from somewhere and you have others who are same like you.

--> It works both ways. The numbers of Westerners coming to Asia to learn is more or less equivalent to the number of Asians going to the West to learn more about their culture and values. To say that white men come to Asia because they recognise that our values make them 'spiritually and mentally' stronger is to fall for a myth created by the West. Western society as I perceive now, still has this notion that the Far East has many 'mythical and magical' things. There is a great proportion of people in the West that still thinks resorting to something mythical and magical will instantly solve any problems they have in life...this can be found in the kind of practises such as witchcraft, tarrot cards, fortune tellers etc.

Relating back to your quote, your first sentence. One cannot lose their 'roots' upon embracing a religion(for they are, as I have explained two different concepts) but they lose their roots when they publically adopts another. This ties in with my previous question, if an atheist(Chinese) thinks that 'old' Chinese traditions and customs are superstitions, what is s/he then?  If you look at the Chinese societies nowadays, especially in major cities in China, you can observe the disregard of many traditions and because of the advancement of the West, the materialistic goals and aims, have goaded many Asians into pursuing the similar line.

On those grounds, I agree that many Asians have lost their roots. My point is that, Christianity is based upon family, whether we are talking about a nucleous type or a wider one. Like I have said previously in my post, the application of Christianity does not 'abolish' the kind of values that were expounded by Confucious but rather expresses by way of enhancement although the people looking at this enhancement might differ on its interpretation, like two individuals interpretating a picture.

Conclusion

1) I do agree that a big portion of Asians have lost/in the process of losing their roots but for reasons different than yours.

2) I believe that this does not act as a barrier for Asian unity. The vast diversity actually works as a 'bridge' for people to find a common platform to stand together(a good reference would be the European Union).

[ Last edited by WinterNights on 3-6-2004 at 09:07 AM ]

Sephiroth

by WinterNights

--> You mentioned that Confucianism has become part of everyday life in Asia. Yet, I have pointed out that this principle/philosophy/advise has undergone systematic dilution/modification over time and this principle has underlying overtones from principles 'borrowed' from other moral systems. 'Absolute' Confucian values are not evident nowadays.  

Excuse me ... you misunderstood. I said the Value of Confuciosm is in everday life of Asian, I didn't say everyone follows Confucious.

Confucious took the moral principles of everyday lives and place it for all to see and follow. The values always there and always will be there whether one agrees or not. He only brought it forward when others over look it.

Again, I believe you are looking at the 'results' of the teachings of religions to conclude the scope of identity. These two spheres are different both in context and application. One can be a Buddhist or Shinto, that is the individuals' decision on the principles they want to adopt in life. However, the path they choose to walk on does not contradict the identity they bear. In other words, I may disagree with you on the interpretation of a picture but that does not make us any humanly different.

One can be Buddhist and Shinto followers at the same time despite of the fact that both principles had came from different source altogether. However, one cannot be a Christians and a Muslims at the same time despite of knowing that both come from the same source. In another word, Asian values and Abrahamic religion values are NOT THE SAME in effect.

And No, some religions (especially Abrahamic) do not include scope of Identity. A Muslims is someone who is identified by his clothing, his way of talk, his was of doing about his life and work (and most recently, how many planes he lands into buildings. ). EACH and EVERY aspect of their lives already planned by their master - Muhammad and they have to be obiedience to his master whether they like it or not. In that context, they will lose the identity of an Asian and took on the identity of a Muslim.

Likewise, being Chinese and a Christian is definitely possible.

Give me one example of a Christian behaving like a Chinese pls.


--> Firstly, this matter is complex at its core for although Islam and Christianity may share the same 'ultimate' source, it is worlds apart and to generalize them together would to err in understanding the conceptual application of either religions on modern day life. To put it rather simple(and unfortunately inadequate), while the Islamic faith emphasize more on form, Christianity does not. This means that the emphasis of actions concentrates more on the effect, rather than the form of actions.  

I really don't care the difference or similarities between Christianity and Islam. As far as I know, they are Abrahamic religions and they are not part of Asia and its people.

Secondly, in relation to your quote above, I believe you have miscontrued it. I will explain. Every generation that passes involves a modification in values practiced. For example, my grandparents were of the notion that boys(males) are the 'pride' of a family where girls(females), although they won't drown them in a river, girls to them are considered 'better to serve men in the house only'. Now, what is the source of this thinking? My parents and their generation have completely abandoned this form of thinking regardless of whatever faith they have embraced(in fact, one of my uncle is a very staunch Buddhist). So, does this mean that because they have 'abandoned' this 'typical' Chinese practise, they are no longer Chinese?

Your family seems to be full of male chauvionists (maybe a mistake in spelling here). They seems to have opinion that female are slaves to men. Show me example where females in Hindusm, Buddhism, Shinto and other Asian values which undermined womenfolk.

It is true that men take the centre stage and most of the time women are behind. This is because of their physical weakness and the fact that they are emotionally unbalance at some times.

--> It works both ways. The numbers of Westerners coming to Asia to learn is more or less equivalent to the number of Asians going to the West to learn more about their culture and values. To say that white men come to Asia because they recognise that our values make them 'spiritually and mentally' stronger is to fall for a myth created by the West. Western society as I perceive now, still has this notion that the Far East has many 'mythical and magical' things. There is a great proportion of people in the West that still thinks resorting to something mythical and magical will instantly solve any problems they have in life...this can be found in the kind of practises such as witchcraft, tarrot cards, fortune tellers etc.  

I really don't know what rock you crawl out from. ;) Values such as Ayurveda, Acupunture, Holistic medicines, Yoga and etc is making an impact in the West as we speak now just as Herbs and Spices did 500 years ago.

Asians still holds to their culture - their dance, art forms and ancient texts and building which doesn't exists in the West and this brings the West to Asia just as it has hundreds of years ago.

And you are talking about magics and mythical stuffs? ;) Get into focus pls.

Relating back to your quote, your first sentence. One cannot lose their 'roots' upon embracing a religion(for they are, as I have explained two different concepts) but they lose their roots when they publically adopts another. This ties in with my previous question, if an atheist(Chinese) thinks that 'old' Chinese traditions and customs are superstitions, what is s/he then?  If you look at the Chinese societies nowadays, especially in major cities in China, you can observe the disregard of many traditions and because of the advancement of the West, the materialistic goals and aims, have goaded many Asians into pursuing the similar line.  

When did I say one cannot lose their roots upon embracing a religion? It strictly depends on whether a religion comes from Asia or not.

If an atheist discard tradition and culture as useless ... then he is an atheist. What else is he? He choose to become an atheist. He is no longer Chinese other than physically.

And yes, a lot of Asians losing their culture beliefs and adapt useless and spiritually tainted religions like Abrahamic Religions. They still hold on to the invaders' principles (since it was brought by invaders from Europe about 500 years ago) and forgot their own places in the society. Materialistic values have become a way of life and to some people this is the only way one should live. Is this Asian Values which brought by people like Confucious? And Buddha? NO.

On those grounds, I agree that many Asians have lost their roots. My point is that, Christianity is based upon family, whether we are talking about a nucleous type or a wider one. Like I have said previously in my post, the application of Christianity does not 'abolish' the kind of values that were expounded by Confucious but rather expresses by way of enhancement although the people looking at this enhancement might differ on its interpretation, like two individuals interpretating a picture.

You talk pretty words but it is useless. Look deeper into your own society (Christians AND Muslims) and you will see that your people are shaking.

Many willing to commit adultery because they know they can confess to a priest and forgiven. Many drink alcholol, gamble, steal etc and it become so normal in their everyday lives, it doesn't matter anymore. Look at the West, their society is collapsing under burden of sin like adultery, crime, immoral behaviours and so on because of lack of control by your religions.

Do Asians need such useless Religions which only based on words and not in actions? Do Asians need a religion which restricts one's movement and way of thinking just to please a dead man named Muhammad?

Originally posted by Seraphim at 31-5-2004 09:57 PM:
Although the probability of incest is higher Malays compared to Chinese and Indians..I wonder why???:hmm:

[ Last edited by Seraphim on 31-5-2004 at 11:25 PM ]

your question has been answered by vixen! mostly chinese & indian couples live in before they get married..no different from western people!  is this what we call "culture shock"?

[ Last edited by WICKED on 3-6-2004 at 01:38 PM ]

Seraphim

Originally posted by WICKED at 3-6-2004 01:33 PM:


your question has been answered by vixen! mostly chinese & indian couples live in before they get married..no different from western people!  is this what we call "culture shock"? ...

Incest =/= cohabitation

Seraphim

"mostly chinese & indian couples live in before they get married..no different from western people!"

A terrible thing to say without facts/statistics to support...You saw/heard/assume someone's friend's,neighbours and etc from someone's gossip said so and you just said the whole Chinese and Indian cohabitat...Convenient eh?

Sephiroth

by WICKED

your question has been answered by vixen! mostly chinese & indian couples live in before they get married..no different from western people!  is this what we call "culture shock"?

Excuse me ... WHO claims that Chinese and Indians couple LIVE together before marriage? nf:

I have plenty of Chinese (non Christians AND Christian) friends and I have plenty of Indian friends and quite familiar with marriage ceremonies from both races and their attitudes. I have NOT come across any couple who claims to have live together (AND allowed by their families) before marriage.

Excuse me ... WHO claims that Chinese and Indians couple LIVE together before marriage?

I've made the claim..SO WHAT??? pandai pun kau tunjuk wajah berapi yek? kau ingat ko sorang jer boleh marah? wakaka..relax brother aku kata macam tu sebab ada 2-3 orang office mate aku tu dah mengandung tapi belum kahwin & stay together with their couples & mak bapak dia orang pun tak kisah..buat derrrkk jer majority pulak bangsa korang lah. kawin tak kawin tetap sama jer:pompom:

[ Last edited by WICKED on 3-6-2004 at 03:32 PM ]

A terrible thing to say without facts/statistics to support...You saw/heard/assume someone's friend's,neighbours and etc from someone's gossip said so and you just said the whole Chinese and

You'll never find the statistic because none of any media covers such a story but i know this thing happen surround me! :pompom:

Sephiroth

by WICKED

I've made the claim..SO WHAT??? pandai pun kau tunjuk wajah berapi yek? kau ingat ko sorang jer boleh marah? wakaka..relax brother aku kata macam tu sebab ada 2-3 orang office mate aku tu dah mengandung tapi belum kahwin & stay together with their couples & mak bapak dia orang pun tak kisah..buat derrrkk jer majority pulak bangsa korang lah. kawin tak kawin tetap sama jer

Hmph ... ;) Tak tahu samada kamu menipu ke atau sahaja nak menyakitkan hati orang kerana sudah hilang idea nak menpertahankan hujah2 anda.