What Soora 2:23 really says to SFE Talk?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-1-18 10:45 PM:
Where? where are the measurable objectyive crtiteria you talked about? How do you measure likeness?

Al-Quran

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Al Quran? Thats a vague term that doesn't even qualify as an objective criteria. A sura is a verse or it can be a chapter, but not an entire Quran, so which verse in the Quran do you want the competition to apply? Since sura 2:23 left it open & Fuzzy says teh Quran, can I then choose any verse I wish from the Quran to compete with?

Finally where? Where are the objective criteria for the 2:23 challenge?

[ Last edited by Debmey on 19-1-2004 at 08:50 AM ]

Fuzzman

SFE Talk wrote: Al Quran? Thats a vague term that doesn't even qualify as an objective criteria.

You need a measurable objective criteria to make your 2:23 stand. So what do you propose as a suitable measurable criteria as your object of argument of the 2:23? Can't be the Bible or the Tanakh could it? The only "vague" criteria here is only you.

SFE Talk wrote:A sura is a verse or it can be a chapter, but not an entire Quran, so which verse in the Quran do you want the competition to apply? Since sura 2:23 left it open & Fuzzy says teh Quran, can I then choose any verse I wish from the Quran to compete with?

No wonder you'res till stuck without providing anything much this far. Seems to Fuzzman you don't even understand what 2:23 is all about? Go read soora 2:23 again if need be, to better understand the requirements given through it. Then come back and tell me what you make of it.

SFE Talk wrote: Finally where? Where are the objective criteria for the 2:23 challenge?

Again you ask for the objective criteria for the 2:23? This is page thirteen already? If you cannot get on with the 2:23, why not just admit it? There's no shame in defeat you know? It takes real guts to admit defeat.

Again a reminder of what "objective criteria" to which you have agreed collectively earlier on means:-
A standard or a test formulated on an observable phenomena; presented factually on which a decision can be made.

Again for another untold number of times, the objective criteria of the 2:23 is the below:-
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

So when are you going to measure up to your make believe bravery in taking on the 2:23 head-on instead of just whinning around its simplistic legalities?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 19-1-2004 at 09:41 AM ]

Debmey

You need a measurable objective criteria to make your 2:23 stand. So what do you propose as a suitable measurable criteria as your object of argument of the 2:23? Can't be the Bible or the Tanakh could it? The only "vague" criteria here is only you.

I dunno sir. But since Quran propose such a silly challenge and Muslismmtake it to be a holy book, it is up to you Muslims to propose a set of objective criteria for the chalklenge to be intelligible. Up till now,yu have yet to come up with one.




  

No wonder you'res till stuck without providing anything much this far. Seems to Fuzzman you don't even understand what 2:23 is all about? Go read soora 2:23 again if need be, to better understand the requirements given through it. Then come back and tell me what you make of it.

So which verse fromthe Quran shoudl we choose? sura 2:23 doesn't specify. So can I choose any verse I want?

Again you ask for the objective criteria for the 2:23? This is page thirteen already? If you cannot get on with the 2:23, why not just admit it? There's no shame in defeat you know? It takes real guts to admit defeat.

the problem is not with me, the problem is with you. You choose to play with owrds and bigotry instaed of giving us a set of objective criteria for the challenge. After 13 pages, Muslims still cannot make sura 2:23 intelligible.

Again a reminder of what "objective criteria" to which you have agreed collectively earlier on means:-
A standard or a test formulated on an observable phenomena; presented factually on which a decision can be made.

So give us a set of objective criteria then.

Again for another untold number of times, the objective criteria of the 2:23 is the below:-
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

So give us a set of objective criteria whiich we can ascertain whether we can meet the challenge. otherwise sura 2:23 is silly.

So when are you going to measure up to your make believe bravery in taking on the 2:23 head-on instead of just whinning around its simplistic legalities?

I can take on teh challenge provided yu can make sense of it.

Fuzzman

SFE Talk wrote:  dunno sir. But since Quran propose such a silly challenge and Muslismmtake it to be a holy book, it is up to you Muslims to propose a set of objective criteria for the chalklenge to be intelligible. Up till now,yu have yet to come up with one.

You don't know very much do you? No wonder we're onto page thirteen and you're still stalling with the "objective criteria" excuse of a fight.  First of all Al-Quran's soora 2:23 is not a challenge nor is it silly. It is only silly to you because you can't come out with a smart rebuttal. Factually soora 2:23 is the most precise and direct invitation to non-Moslems like you to not only talk a lot but to also come up with strong hard evidences to prove that Al-Quran was the creation of Prophet Mohammad. So how can soora 2:23 be "silly" when you yourself are drowning in the saliva of your talking without hard evidences to back up your silly anti-2:23 argument?

The contents of soora 2:23 already carries the most intelligble objective criteria in itself. To create the uncreated in surpassing the truth of the already created. What else do you need? Needless to say ,you've been unable to meet that invitation. does this mean that you can't find any fault with the revelation of soora 2:23? LOL

SFE Talk wrote: So which verse from the Quran shoudl we choose? sura 2:23 doesn't specify. So can I choose any verse I want?

So what does the soora say?
Soora 2:23 :  And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.
By now you should have the answer to your query. Tell us what you understand by it.

SFE Talk wrote: the problem is not with me, the problem is with you. You choose to play with owrds and bigotry instaed of giving us a set of objective criteria for the challenge. After 13 pages, Muslims still cannot make sura 2:23 intelligible.

What a laugh? The objective criteria of the 2:23 is already embodied in the 2:23 as it is; where it is required of the disbeliever to produce a soora or chapter and to have it scrutinized for similiar Quranic qualities by his own peers or chosen witnesses from his own faith. So clear for anybody with a clear heart to see the unbreakable invitation set by Allah.

Being onto page thirteen and yet you flounder like a beached whale with the objective criteria set by Fuzzman which reads :-
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."
There's no shame in defeat if you just admit you can't take on the 2:23 invitation to self-discovery. LOL

SFE Talk wrote: So give us a set of objective criteria whiich we can ascertain whether we can meet the challenge. otherwise sura 2:23 is silly.

What a laugh?! A set you say? I'll play along with your fantasy here. So tell us all how many is it enough to make your set of objective criteria? Now this has got to be really good. I'm all ears now?! LOL

SFE Talk wrote: I can take on teh challenge provided yu can make sense of it.

I understand the 2:23 perfectly. That is why you have found it so hard to break away from my constant "harrassment" of your whatever minute amounts of intellectual capabilities that you might have left in your head. LOL Everbody here will willingly submit that you're the one that's been senseless in this thread. Make or break, you're still way behind.

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

LOL I see your 2:23 car has broken down again as usual? Need a ride my friend?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 25-1-2004 at 10:48 AM ]

Fuzzman

C'mon SFE Talk, finish walking your talk here. I'm waiting. I'm always waiting on you. Where is your challenge?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

You see, Fuzzman talks a lot of things but meant nothing as he drips his mouth full of saliva in desperation.

Up until now, he still cannot make sense of the sura 2:23 challenge that Muslims, so eagerly throw out to non Muslims.

Up till after 13th pages, he still cannot even give us one decent objective criteria for the sura like it challenge. not even one.

The Quran remains unitelligible, Muslims remain stuck.

cheers

Fuzzman

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Look who's talking? Everything has been placed in sync and perfect harmony but looks like Debmey's singing the wrong lyrics for a wrong song. Again Debmey [whatever] there is no shame in defeat. Why not just say you cannot and do not havew what it takes to take on the 2:23. BRING IT ON if you can but...... you can't.

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

SFE Talk wrote: The Quran remains unitelligible, Muslims remain stuck.

The Quran remains unchallengable, SFE Talk aka Debmey remains stuck

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

so where are the objective criteria for the sura 2:23 challenge? Muslims scared to issue challenges anymore? Muslims afraid that Quran cannot win? comeon guys, yu gotta help thus Fuzzman out here.

cheers

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-1-28 10:59 AM:
so where are the objective criteria for the sura 2:23 challenge? Muslims scared to issue challenges anymore? Muslims afraid that Quran cannot win? comeon guys, yu gotta help thus Fuzzman out here.  ...

Face the facts la friend. The OC has been staring you in the face for thirteen pages already la. Why you make as if you don't know one ah? I think it is you one that need help la, not me. Why no one help you one ah? Aiyoo I think you drowning in your own defeat already one la. One more thing la. If you cannot do the 2:23, just say so la. No need to waste so much byte space ma? Don't worry one. No one going to say anything if you say you cannot do one lor! Aiyaahh after all friend, this one here just shiok shiok pray pray only one ma? If you cannot do one, doesn't mean you gonna get the firing squad in Singapore meh? Somemore got no price one you know? So why worry one? Be good boy. Don't want kiasu ma. Wa ka lu kong, lu bey cho say cannot la. Okay ahh peng eu?! LOL

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Relaks bruder Fuzzy, don't feel embarassed that sura 2:23 remain unintelligible, you'll stay Muslim inpsite of it, nobody can force you to abandon islam because of it. Islam will still exist even though it is a load of rubbish after more than a thousand years.

If yu cannot show us even one decent objective criteria,so be it, we won't kill yu for that. In fact, we will still love you for what yu are.

sonny~~

lemme refresh n c whether bro deb***sfe can counter intelligently.  correct me if am wrong FUZZ

the soora says -
Soora 2:23 :  And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful.

bro deb***sfes challenge -
the soora is unintelligible

FUZZs counter challenge -
then create your challenge chapter by your own hand or by the hand of your helpers as an alternative greatness of the Quran and putting the finished work to the scrutinity of your witnesses of your faith to see whether you were able to complete that feat on par with the greatness of the Quran.  

bro deb***sfe asked for -
wheres the objective criteria?

FUZZs clarification of the objective criteria -
A standard or a test formulated on an observable phenomena; presented factually on which a decision can be made.

subsequently FUZZs objective criteria for the soora -
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

from then on bro deb***sfe is stuck with wheres the objective criteria? hecklin till page 13

the lesson of this merry go round is dont challenge others faith unless u r well versed with it.  simple

as FUZZs wisely put it -
know your enemy well  :bg:

peace

[ Last edited by sonny~~ on 30-1-2004 at 01:00 PM ]

Fuzzman

Thank you Sonny~~ for that precise observation. C'mon SFE Talk aka Debmey, even another Christian can see you for you. So when are you gonna get over your inablility of standing up to what you believe in? Please provide us with your response to my objective criteria which is so simple and easy to answer [ if you have the knowledge for it that is?]

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

FUZZs clarification of the objective criteria -
A standard or a test formulated on an observable phenomena; presented factually on which a decision can be made.

subsequently FUZZs objective criteria for the soora -
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

So Fuzzman does agree that sura 2:23 is a challenge after all.

OK, so based on your definition of an objective criteria, show us the objective criteria which will help us with this coimpetition. Where? Where are those objective criteria for the competition? I am still waiting.

cheers

Fuzzman

Sonny~~ please do me the honors by being a temporary helper to SFEakaDeb, as Fuzzman finds that you have comprehension on the workings of the 2:23. And if SFEakaDeb still doesn't understand, I think you'll know what to do with him. Going for a time-off here. Going get laid back with this really cool Jewish Coke in my hand bought off a Jewish Tesco mart, getting all comfy in my Jewish Levi's, tuning in to my Jewish Singer brand mini-HIFI that packs a small wallop and then enjoy a cuppa of fine Jewish Starbucks coffee. Just ask SFEakaDeb to just BRING IT ON.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Where? where are the objective criteria you talked about?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-1-31 09:21 AM:
Where? where are the objective criteria you talked about?

Shucks SFEakaDeb, you do not need to hide behind a paperwall of lies and denial you know? There's no shame in defeat if you cannot come up with a strong rebuttal for the 2:23, as after all we Moslems are an understanding lot here. If Sonny~~ can understand the workings of the 2:23, I don't see why you can't be the same too?

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-1-31 09:21 AM:
Where? where are the objective criteria you talked about?

Here! Here it is and has been for thirteen pages, just staring you in the face.
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

Are you ready to start your feat in bringing down the Quran?

ARI FUZZMAN