What Soora 2:23 really says to SFE Talk?

Debmey

My most simplest answer to you is just this:
1. TO CREATE THE UNCREATED THAT HAS THE QUALITIES OF THE CREATED.
2.  TO PRODUCE A CHAPTER LIKE IT WITH HELPERS FROM YOUR OWN FAITH.
Just let me know if you need me to repeat this line again.

And what are these qualities specifically.No specific qualities, no objective criteria, its that simple.

Whuch chapter are you talking about? The Quran gives no clue, so can I choose my own chapter?

Fuzzman

Since you've been avoiding the issue of the objective criteria, I'd like to steer this topic into another aspect that has everything to do with the 2:23 -and that aspect is the literature you'd be using to work on a credible parallel production of the chapter of your choice.

Here's my argument.

1. You obviously can't use Quran because Quran touches on parts of the Bible that was not "contaminated".

2. The Bible cannot be used because Quran superceeds thsi book and the Quran carries OT history.

So what is your choice of literature for your case comparison?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

No Fuzzman dear, yu can't run away from the objective criteria issue.
You have to come up with objective criteria for the sura like it challenge for a start.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-2-12 08:02 PM:
No Fuzzman dear, yu can't run away from the objective criteria issue.
You have to come up with objective criteria for the sura like it challenge for a start.

Believe me [after fourteen pages in all]when I say that many people here will know as to whom is the one running away from the objective criteria issue, which surely wasn't me! People will candidly see that it is I who is in pursuance of your unbreakable refusal of addressing that issue.

So I mean to rope you into submission through  indirect entrapment with this new tune for an old musical chair number. If you refuse getting serious on the OC, then we should by all means in the spirit of "joyous proclaimation for the true virtues of colorful debate" hook ourselves into much "greener pastures" of other "conducive collective structures" that would most definately help explain and put into much better scrutiny of your inability or ineptness of actually taking on the 2:23.

If you find hardship on your part in answering my perception of the objective criteria which truthfully reflects the soora 2:23 reading as it always did as -
" To create a chapter in likeness to any chosen soora with the assistance of your helpers from your faith who are directly your witnesses if and when you are in doubt that the Quran was not from Allah but the creation of Prophet Mohammad."

whose main objective is to :-
1. Get you as the doubtor to choose any verse or chapter of your choosing to make for the "challenge".
2. Get you to create from the observation of that chosen soora or chapter, a collection of words and sentences that should contain similiar qualities in the area of word structure, pronounciative eloquence, message deliverance and historical compatibility.
3. Create the above not with the help of believers of Al-Quran but from your own faith.

A fairly good objective to proof that Quran was not from Allah but from a human named Muhammad. If you can't even begin planning as tohow you would take on this rather menial task, then Fuzzman feels we should get on the next phase that will conclude your failure and inability of the objective criteria by simply telling us as to what literature you would be using for the "challenge"?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

None of what yu mentioned have anything to do with objective criteria thats can be used to to make sense of thsi sura like it challenge. You are obviously trying to play dumb here.

So where? Where are teh objective criteria? Which Muslim can make sense of teh Quran?

Fuzzman

Back to square one with you. Why talk about your intended "challenge" when you did not specify -in the first place- the literature you'd be using as a presentation tool for the 2:23. What's the point of going the next step when the issue of the presentation platform to be used by you is not resolved.

So will you please tell us the literature that you'd be using for the 2:23 "challenge"?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Before I present anything, I have to have the objective criteria first for comparison. Otherwise how would we know who wins?

No objective criteria, no challenge, the Quran remians un intelligible.

Fuzzman

Why then bother about who wins when the 2:23 isn't about winning but just a path to "self-discovery". Then again why bother about the objective criteria [which you have avoided like the Black Plague] when we do not know the literature basis of your proposed "challenge"?

How can you possibly talk about criterias when you've avoided telling us the literature that would form the backbone of your presentation? So what literature will you be using? Please be sensible enough to tell us all. We're just "dying on the cross" to know more about your chosen literature.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

We need the objective criterai to make teh cahllenge valid. No objective criteria, no judges, yu don't have a valid challenge. The sura like it challenge remains insincere and unintelligible. Quran is a hoax.

Fuzzman

Fine enough an argument from you. Then again if Quran is a hoax, why is it that you're having difficulties in even mentioning the literature of your choice that you would engage as the backbone assault format for the 2:23? Wouldn't the choice of literature be easy picking if Quran was indeed a hoax!

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

so where are the objective criteria?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-2-14 12:34 AM:
so where are the objective criteria?

So what is the literature of your choice?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

You gotta produce your objective criteria nad judges first isn't it? so where are the objective criteria?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-2-14 07:50 AM:
You gotta produce your objective criteria nad judges first isn't it? so where are the objective criteria?

You're hopeless my friend. There's just no end to your sticky denials.  The objective criteria has been splattered across endless pages above and yet you not only refuse to answer it but have the gull to even keep asking repeatedly for it. What a joker.

Like I said, since you have chosen to face up to my perception of the OC, it is only logical to move on to other aspects of your "challenge" capabilities. We need to check whether you have the ability to really  do the 2:23 or are just only good at pumping up nothing but hot air.

And the next best revelation of your ability is for you to reveal the literature that you would apply to the "challenge" Your "challenge" has got to stand on a literature presentation. So what is it?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

We still have not seen one objective critetia which we can make a comparison on. The objective criteria for judging, no judge, yu don't have a challenge. The sura 2:23 remaisn unintelligible.

Fuzzman

So how can you convincingly take on the objective criteria of the 2:23 when you cannot even tell Fuzzman the literature that you will be using to defeat the 2:23?  You settle this first. No point in asking a helluva lot when you cannot even make past the first rung on the literature issue.

C'mon Debmey, tell us what we want to know - what is your literature?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

How can I possibly produce a literature to take on the challenge when there are no objective criteria available for the challenge?
do you run a race in any direction you like? Maybe fools do, but not sane peope.

peace

Fuzzman

LOL finally we get to see how smart you really are. Since when did Fuzzman say that you have to "produce" a literature? Fuzzman only asked you as to what relevant literature would you apply as a challenge platform - so simple and yet you fail understanding it.

All Fuzzman knows is that  you'd be a "insane fool" if you think you could take on the challenge of the objective criteria without actually knowing the course of literature you'd be using. It's like sitting for a language examination without knowing which language is in usage?  you truly amuse me with your funnybone antics?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

So where? Where are the objective criteria for the challenge? Hahahahahahahaha............................

Fuzzman

So where? Where is the literature for the challenge? Hahahahahahahaha............................

ARI FUZZMAN