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Reply #20 alhaj72's post
Firstly, let us understand what is BEGOTTEN and CREATED.
Beget
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beget
When you beget, you beget something like you. A father beget a son. Both of them are what?? HUMANS. The Father beget Jesus, they are one as God.
Create
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/create
When you create, you create another thing, a product etc. God created humans in His image, BUT NOT LIKE GOD.
Jesus, the Son of God, is the BEGOTTEN son, not CREATED son. The Word was incarnated into human being, to play a role as a human too. But he is not 50% God n 50% human, Jesus is 100%God at the same time 100% human. |
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Reply #21 Shwein1990's post
Firstly, let us understand what is BEGOTTEN and CREATED.
Beget
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beget
When you beget, you beget something like you. A father beget a son. Both of them are what?? HUMANS. The Father beget Jesus, they are one as God.
Shwein.. kau belum boleh jadi pentafsir bahasa.. ada kelemahan...
Beget = menjadi Ayah kepada
"When you beget, you beget something like you. A father beget a son. Both of them are what?? HUMANS, yes I agreed.
The Father beget Jesus, they are one as God." Nope, I don't agreed.
What do you mean by.. a Father beget Jesus, they are one as GOD.. not convincing enough yet create confusion.. check your first wording.. human beget human then your second wording God beget human...
You know what.. GOD has never beget human.. is human who said GOD beget Jesus (Gospel written by Jesus disciples)
"Create
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/create
When you create, you create another thing, a product etc. God created humans in His image, BUT NOT LIKE GOD.
Jesus, the Son of God, is the BEGOTTEN son, not CREATED son. The Word was incarnated into human being, to play a role as a human too. But he is not 50% God n 50% human, Jesus is 100%God at the same time 100% human.
GOD and human are different.. GOD create human... GOD will not be a human as HIS creation.. 100% GOD mean divine but 100% human mean weak...
You know what.. ALLAH create Jesus (Isa) onto Mary(Mariam) womb.. without a father.. Mary (Mariam is Human).. You said Jesus is GOD.. so Mariam gave birth to a GOD?? nonsense....
The Word is from ALLAH.. is not the other ALLAH since AllAH is one.. how do you speak.. with you word or your finger?? |
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Beget,
1stly, YOU MUST KNOW THAT JESUS IS GOD. therefore when i say The Father beget Jesus, what is the problem with it?
"Shwein.. kau belum boleh jadi pentafsir bahasa.. ada kelemahan..."
Yes i cant be a pentafsir bahasa. So? whats the matter?
The concept of God in Christianity and Islam is different. When I say God, which is Elohim, is existing in three person. As i know, in Islam, Allah is referred to ONE being. Please bear in mind that this is C&C forum, therefore when we talk about God, we are referring to YAHWEH(which composed of 3 persons), NOT Allah S.W.T. which is 1
Thank you. |
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IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
HERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE 揟HE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE擺/size]
Originally posted by alhaj72 at 10-3-2008 03:07 PM 
The two doctrines of the TRINITY and the INCARNATION are the foundation of Christian life and worship. By becoming MAN, GOD THE SON offered us a share in the inner life of the TRINITY. By grace, ...
Dear alhaj72,
Well, as this CHRISTIAN AND CHRISTIAN we only discuss about CHRISTIANITY.
Please don抰 compare CHRISTIAN with any religion |
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Balas #23 Shwein1990\ catat
Beget,
1stly, YOU MUST KNOW THAT JESUS IS GOD. therefore when i say The Father beget Jesus, what is the problem with it?
"Shwein.. kau belum boleh jadi pentafsir bahasa.. ada kelemahan..."
Yes i cant be a pentafsir bahasa. So? whats the matter?
That is the point, when you can't be a good translater, you will translate in a wrong way... hmmm.. kesian betul.. |
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Well, as this CHRISTIAN AND CHRISTIAN we only discuss about CHRISTIANITY.
Please don抰 compare CHRISTIAN with any religion |
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Reply #25 alhaj72's post
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搮One of the creeds says that Christ is the Son of God 慴egotten,not created |
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Balas #27 Shwein1990\ catat
I'm not looking at age y'know.. I'm looking at knowledge.. tua tak semestinya lama.. muda tak semestinya baru.. I'm respected all people in the world since I have thrown away my racist thinking.. nothing is different between human since we are the same blood (From Adam & Hawa).. I can accept any explanation and yet it's must be a fact and not confusing.. (human = weak)
In Islam.. it's wrong to picture or statue of GOD same like HIS creation yet to show HIS weaknesses since GOD doesn't have a weakness..
Y'know what.. it's not a coincidence that there is a similarity between Al-Quran and Injil and OT.. mostly on the Prophet story al-though the name is different.. I'm not arguing about the prophet story.. I'm arguing on the Bible way to descript human as a GOD.. You said your GOD Father is ALLAH Almighty, but Muslim belive in ALLAH Almighty only.. not as a Father (same like human) that's why I'm asking you about GOD characteristic... got it Shwein.. sometime.. you have to think in a science way..
Islam tidak pernah tidak mengakui kewujudan Al-kitab.. kerana dalam rukun Iman.. kami percaya kepada kitab (al-kitab) tapi kitab yang asal (diturunkan kepada para rasul)
But I'm not sure if Cristian have the same thought as Islam.. can you answer my question honestly Shwein? |
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Ic.... I finally know what is your misunderstanding. God The Father is not Allah.....
The Father alone is not God, The Son alone is not God, The Holy Spirit alone is not God. They together as ONE God. It is not God has a Son, and the son is God, which shows 2 gods, but rather.. The Father begotten The Son, together they are ONE God (of course, + the Holy Spirit)
In other words, The Father, one of the member of the Godhead(trinity) begotten The Son, together they are ONE God (including HS)
When we say, God The Father, we are referring to God, but specifically The Father, His role, etc. When we say, God The Son, we are referring to God, but specifically The Son, Jesus. (please bear in mind that in Christianity, Jesus is God)
We believe that God is composed of 3 distinct nature, The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. which means, in scientific way,
The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit = ONE God
God -> The Father + The Son + The Holy Spirit
*And please read my earlier post regarding "begotten" I took time to type it out.
Which question u mean?? the thought of originality?? Yes, the Bible is not corrupted, there is no source n evidences that shows that the Bible is corrupted by writer, false prophet.. etc. It is ORIGINAL in context!!
Thank you |
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Balas #29 Shwein1990\ catat
Will you please get it quite clear that this has nothing to do with the fact that when Christ was born on earth as a man, that man was the son of a virgin? We are not now thinking about the Virgin Birth.
That what I called the fact.. you just written it.."" The fact that when Christ was born on earth as a man" don't deny the fact!!
Here are my story.. Allah or GOD is one.. everybody agreed right.. If you said your GOD is not ALLAH.. then why others forumer said so (please don't ignored others if they are not suit with your explanation).. Bible came to Jesus is from Allah or GOD.. everybody agreed right.. then Jesus it's self is born virgin by Mary (Mariam).. everybody agreed right..(FACT) the only difference between Jesus and other prophet that he is born virgin not as normal human... that is where ketaksuban happen dan disalah ertikan oleh penulis-penulis Bible sezaman atau selepas kematiannya (Jesus)
Which question u mean?? the thought of originality?? Yes, the Bible is not corrupted, there is no source n evidences that shows that the Bible is corrupted by writer, false prophet.. etc. It is ORIGINAL in context!!
The thought of Cristian view on Islam religion... the history of Al-Kitab.. Please answer about this question first since my next argument will depend on how yoursl answer.. |
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Yes, God is Allah NOT in the sense that being ALONE like the muslims view. God is Allah which is Elohim (composed of 3 distinct nature). What im trying to say that God is Allah but not the Allah meant by muslims. which means, God is Allah, which composed of 3 nature.
And, It is a fact that Jesus existed before the world began. The Bible says, Jesus is the Word, the Word existed before the world began, the Word is with God, the Word is God. Yes, it is true that Jesus was born on earth as man. The Bible says, Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit and God became a man. (Jesus, The Son)
The Word became flesh
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." - John 1:1
"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." - John 1:14
"John testified about him when he shouted to the crowds, 揟his is the one I was talking about when I said, 慡omeone is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.挃From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses, but God抯 unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father抯 heart. He has revealed God to us." John 1:15-18
" 1 After saying all these things, Jesus looked up to heaven and said, 揊ather, the hour has come. Glorify your Son so he can give glory back to you. 2 For you have given him authority over everyone. He gives eternal life to each one you have given him. 3 And this is the way to have eternal life梩o know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth. 4 I brought glory to you here on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5 Now, Father, bring me into the glory we shared before the world began." - John 17:1-5
(note: Jesus said "..the glory we SHARED BEFORE the world began")
If you want more info about Jesus is God, check out the thread "The Deity of Jesus Christ" (that includes the sifat-sifat u asked too.)
You want Christian view on Islam religion?? which part? thats too general. And i dont know much about it. Sorry, cant help you.
Thank you |
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Balas #31 Shwein1990\ catat
(note: Jesus said "..the glory we SHARED BEFORE the world began")
If you want more info about Jesus is God, check out the thread "The Deity of Jesus Christ" (that includes the sifat-sifat u asked too.)
For sifat-sifat.. I think it's ok.. more or less you know something..(It's show that human didn't have that sifat-sifat)..good
How about ciri-ciri.. I cannot find it.. that's why I asking you.. did your Jesus eat, drink, breathing, married, have a children, died etc??
Did your GOD Father do the same thing???? |
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Jesus eat, drink, sleep and did like what human did. BUT he never marry, and beget a child like what "The Da Vinci Code" says... LOL and Jesus died but was resurrected.
God The Father has His role, He plays His roles. If you want to ask what roles?? i do not know all of them.
Jesus became flesh is to show that God too know the pain, sorrow, hardship and etc. of human. |
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And, It is a fact that Jesus existed before the world began. The Bible says, Jesus is the Word, the Word existed before the world began, the Word is with God, the Word is God. Yes, it is true that Jesus was born on earth as man. The Bible says, Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit and God became a man. (Jesus, The Son)
Jesus born as HUMAN.. don't ignore that.. and human cannot exist before the world began?? see the point.. but ALLAH yes.. DIA tiada awal dan akhiran.. wanna talk about it??
The FACT was.. The Bible was written down by Jesus disciples.. are you agreed??
You want Christian view on Islam religion?? which part? thats too general. And i dont know much about it. Sorry, cant help you.
You don't know much about Islam right... and you don't have a courage to read Al-Quran right, how about the translation.. may be you can find one.. but remember..the translation is not Al-Quran it's self.. it's just a translation.. translation can be different with others but Al-Quran (Arabic) is still the same.. that's the fact why Al-Quran has never been corrupted because from beginning.. Muslim always protected the originility of Al-Quran.. Can you give me the name who written down the Al-Quran??
I don't mind to read Bible since you have written it down on this forum.. the more you wrote, the better I'm to be..knowledge is power..(but that doesn't mean it's GOD)
Shwein wrote "Ic.... I finally know what is your misunderstanding. God The Father is not Allah.....(BUT) Yes, God is Allah NOT in the sense that being ALONE like the muslims view. God is Allah which is Elohim."
That what I called inconsistent.. 
Elohim.. I'm thinking about one word..Ilahi it's other name for ALLAH but just NAME not other ALLAH...HE can have many names but still ONE.. he don't have other person in HIM.. HE just ONE and only.
Islam GOD is ALLAH.. Cristian GOD also ALLAH.. so who can claim that his GOD is ALLAH?
Islam can proof it that their GOD is ALLAH.. you can find it in Al-Quran.. but I don't think so that you can proof that your GOD is ALLAH.. you have a verse to proof it? If don't, why you used it? |
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Jesus eat, drink, sleep and did like what human did. BUT he never marry, and beget a child like what "The Da Vinci Code" says... LOL and Jesus died but was resurrected.
So if Jesus acted as human, why worship him??
God The Father has His role, He plays His roles. If you want to ask what roles?? i do not know all of them.
You don't know or you can't find it inside Bible? or you can admit that GOD doesn't act like human?
Jesus became flesh is to show that God too know the pain, sorrow, hardship and etc. of human.
You mean GOD doesn't know the pain, sorrow, hardship and etc of human? Bwahah.. what a NAIVE.. GOD didn't need to be a flesh to feel all that feeling since HE's the one who create it....
If you who create the poison.. you dare to try it just to test the effect?? Are out of your mind?? |
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Reply #34 alhaj72's post
"Jesus born as HUMAN.. don't ignore that.. and human cannot exist before the world began?? see the point.. but ALLAH yes.. DIA tiada awal dan akhiran.. wanna talk about it??"
Yes, Jesus born as Human, I NEVER IGNORE THAT, CHRISTIANS NEVER IGNORE THAT. Why not you think the other way? Why Jesus existed before the world began? It is because He IS GOD. GOD = ALLAH, therefore JESUS IS ALLAH.
"The FACT was.. The Bible was written down by Jesus disciples.. are you agreed??"
NO, i do not agree totally, The Bible is a compilation of books written by the prophets, apostles, and disciples of Jesus through the guidance of The Holy Spirit, which means, it is God-breathed.
"You don't know much about Islam right... and you don't have a courage to read Al-Quran right, how about the translation.. may be you can find one.. but remember..the translation is not Al-Quran it's self.. it's just a translation.. translation can be different with others but Al-Quran (Arabic) is still the same.. that's the fact why Al-Quran has never been corrupted because from beginning.. Muslim always protected the originility of Al-Quran.. Can you give me the name who written down the Al-Quran??"
Yes, i dont know much about Islam, but its not that i do not have the courage to read the Quran, it is and was because, IM AM NOT INTERESTED,like i said earlier.
And the translations part, haha... just keep that for yourself, if you'r saying because the Quran(arabic version) still existing and the same, therefore no corruption. Well, i can tell you, the Hebrew Bible still existing and the same. Who wrote the Quran? Well, isnt the prophets and messegers of islam?? please correct me if im totally wrong.
"I don't mind to read Bible since you have written it down on this forum.. the more you wrote, the better I'm to be..knowledge is power..(but that doesn't mean it's GOD)"
im glad that you dont mind reading Bible BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN DOWN. lol...
"That what I called inconsistent." how inconsistent i was?? Elaborate please... Define inconsistent according my situation please.
"Elohim.. I'm thinking about one word..Ilahi it's other name for ALLAH but just NAME not other ALLAH...HE can have many names but still ONE.. he don't have other person in HIM.. HE just ONE and only." That is why..... CHRISTIANITY n ISLAM IS DIFFERENT. In Hebrew, Elohim is a plural noun, it represents the Trinity.
"Islam can proof it that their GOD is ALLAH.. you can find it in Al-Quran.. but I don't think so that you can proof that your GOD is ALLAH.. you have a verse to proof it? If don't, why you used it?" When i said Allah, im using the word "A-L-L-A-H" as a standard Arabic word for "God". Some Bible in Malay language uses ALLAH.
"......it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews in reference to "God"......" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah  |
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Balas #36 Shwein1990\ catat
FACT "Yes, Jesus born as Human, I NEVER IGNORE THAT, CHRISTIANS NEVER IGNORE THAT". FACT..FACT
Why not you think the other way? (Human think)
Why should I think the other way... if there is already a FACT
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 that is a FACT but 1+1+1 = 1, that is nonsense
Why Jesus existed before the world began? It is because He IS GOD. GOD = ALLAH, therefore JESUS IS ALLAH
NO.. Jesus existed when he was borned by Mary.. FACT
But Allah exist before the world is began.. FACT
What is born as flesh is flesh
What is born as human is human.... so human is human.. no human can't be GOD.. Jesus is Jesus which is borned.. how dare you to said that your GOD has been borned by human?
When i said Allah, im using the word "A-L-L-A-H" as a standard Arabic word for "God". Some Bible in Malay language uses ALLAH.
Why you used arabic standard.. why don't used your english version of Bible Standard?
"it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews in reference to "God"......" "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah<;/a><br />
<br />
Allah (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh, IPA: [ʔalˤːɑːh]) is the standard Arabic word for "God". While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews in reference to "God".The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.
The concepts associated with the term Allah (as a deity) differ among the traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was not the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters. In Islam, Allah is unique, the only God, transcendent creator of the universe and omnipotent. Arab Christians today, having no other word for 'God' than 'Allah', use terms such as Allāh al-ab (الله الآب<img src="images/smilies/wink.gif" smilieid="4" border="0" alt="" /> to mean God the father. There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible.
I just can't resist it when a FACT has been ignored....
"That what I called inconsistent." how inconsistent i was?? Elaborate please... Define inconsistent according my situation please.
Haiya itu pun tak faham...
Shwein wrote "Ic.... I finally know what is your misunderstanding. God The Father is not Allah....." but then "Yes, God is Allah" ???????
Sekejap NO sekejap YES.. macam iklan chocfatt la pulakLet you finish with your new ruangan, it will better how to measure your understanding about GOD, then I will continue from there.. thank for the knowledge
[ Last edited by alhaj72 at 11-3-2008 06:21 PM ] |
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Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'. Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ab (الله الآب) meaning God the father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the son, and Allāh al-ruh al ghodus (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God).
Arab Christians have used two forms of invocations that were affixed to the beginning of their written works. They adopted the Muslim basm-allah, and also created their own Trinitized basm-allah as early as the eight century CE. The Muslim basm-allah reads:
In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful
And the Trinitized basm-allah reads:
In the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God.
The Syriac, Latin and Greek invocations do not have the words "One God" at the end. This addition was made to emphasize the monotheistic aspect of Trinitian belief and also to make it more palatable to Muslims.
According to Marshall Hodgson, it seems that in the pre-Islamic times, some Arab Christians made pilgrimage to the Kaaba, a pagan temple at that time, honoring Allah there as God the Creator.
Yahweh is an English rendition of יהוה, the name of the God of Israel, as preserved in the Masoretic Text. These four Hebrew letters ( יהוה ) are often collectively called the Tetragrammaton (from the Greek τετραγράμματον / (to) tetragrammaton, tetra "four" + gramma (gen. grammatos) "letter", "(the word) of four letters") [1] and are usually transliterated JHWH in German, and either YHWH, YHVH, JHWH or JHVH in English.
Traditionally, observant Jews do not say this name aloud, as it is believed to be too sacred to be uttered, but often use euphemisms when referring to the name of the deity, e.g., HaShem ("The Name") or Shem HaMeforash (搕he ineffable Name. |
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Reply #37 Shwein1990's post
"You mean GOD doesn't know the pain, sorrow, hardship and etc of human?I never say so... LOL
I never said you said.. I said you mean.. mean and said is different
"Bwahah.. what a NAIVE.. GOD didn't need to be a flesh to feel all thatfeeling since HE's the one who create it.... " How naive was I?? Elaborate more please. Find your self since the simple thing also cannot think
"If you who create the poison.. you dare to try it just to test the effect?? Are out of your mind??" Common sense tells me, since it POISONOUS, of course i wont test it on myself, but rather test on lab mouse. Im not out of my mind to do so.
Same as GOD.......... GOD was not out of mind to do so
God The Father has His role, He plays His roles. If you want to ask what roles?? i do not know all of them. " How hard was it to understand such simple statement.
It's not hard to understand.. but it's hard to believe that you don't know it |
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Post time 10-3-2008 03:43 PM
