Post Last Edit by zaharul_asriq94 at 16-12-2009 15:19
salam bro migdal..betul ke bendera Israel tu melambngkan Israel Raya yang membentang dari Sungai Euphrates hingga ke Sungai Nil? Jalur Biru atas (Sungai Euphrates) dan Jalur biru bwah bendera Israel (Sungai Nil)?
20#migdal_bavel
My kids used to play this game. Tak tahu plak ada yahudi punya national anthem. Wajiblah x bagi main lagik.
Tp sekarang dia org addicted to madagascar.
Post Last Edit by zaharul_asriq94 at 16-12-2009 15:19
salam bro migdal..betul ke bendera Israel tu melambngkan Israel Raya yang membentang dari Sungai Euphrates hingga ke Sungai Nil? Jalur Biru ata ...
zaharul_asriq94 Post at 16-12-2009 15:18
Salam adik zaharul_asriq
Lambang Bendera tu sebenarnya adalah kain Tallit iaitu Prayer Shawl, di mana sesetengah orang Islam pun memakainya semasa beribadah atau berkhutbah. Corak Prayer Shawl yang bergaris dua tu memang wujud dalam Taurat, sebelum negara Israel Kuno wujud lagi. Hujah Israel Raya tu hanya kedengaran dalam golongan "beragama" konspirasi saja yang tidak habis-habis berkonspirasikan tentang Yahudi
Lambang Bendera tu sebenarnya adalah kain Tallit iaitu Prayer Shawl, di mana sesetengah orang Islam pun memakainya semasa beribadah atau berkhutbah. Corak Prayer Shaw ...
migdal_bavel Post at 16-12-2009 17:28
baru aku ingat...jew orthodox ikut Taurat n percaya selagi Messiah x datang negara Israel x bleh dtubuhkn.
jew zionis plak ikut Talmud n percaya ngara skrg ni sah sebab pusat pmrntahan kat Tel Aviv bukan kat bethelehem.
zionis more secular, ada yg atheist n majoriti dari orthodox n anggapsuara orthodox x layak ddengari. sbb dua2 puak ni benci satu sama lain
AadiGoth Post at 16-12-2009 10:24
Satu lagi salah faham yang common dalam kalangan orang Muslim yang pro-Konspirasi. Ni mesti dah khatam blog ibnu Yaacob kan. Gurau yer bang. Zionism tu hanya ideologi politik, ia tidak dibataskan oleh agama. Yahudi Orthodoks pun boleh menjadi Zionis, mana-mana agamapun boleh menjadi Zionis. Kerana Zionism tu hanyalah ko percaya kaum Yahudi boleh ada negara sendiri. Itulah secara asasnya.
Ramai orang Muslim tak tahu, yang versi agama umat Yahudi di Israel ialah Orthodoks (iaitu Modern-Orthodoxy). Yang membezakan kami dengan Yahudi Charedim (Ultra-Orthodoxy) ialah fahaman Zionism saja. Yang lelain semuanya sama. Kami beriman kepada Talmud dan Torah.
Satu kejahilan yang nyata, satu ironi apabila kita kata, kita sokong Yahudi Orthodoks kerana mereka bukan Zionis, tapi dalam masa yang sama, kita mencaci dan memfitnah kitab Talmud yang diimani oleh Yahudi Orthodoks dengan pelbagai dakwaan. Lepas tu kita nisbahkan Talmud kepada Zionis. Tahukah korang bahawa kerana Talmud lah yang menyebabkan Yahudi Orthodoks ni tidak menjadi Zionis.
Belajarlah dulu agama Yahudi sebelum kita menyebarkan salah faham ni kepada orang lain yer,bukannya apa. Kalau orang belajar tentang Islam dari kaca mata musuh Islam, adakah ko akan jamin ia 100% betul?
Dalam agama Yahudi, kesemua di atas tu namanya Taurat. Taurat dalam konteks ni bukannya kitab nabi Musa saja, tapi ia bersifat umum untuk seluruh di atas kerana secara harafiahnya, Torah tu bermaksud The Law. Bila orang Yahudi Orthodoks kata "Menurut Taurat...", "Dalam Taurat ada mengatakan..." "Kami mengikut Taurat yang mengatakan sekian-sekian...", itu tak bermaksud mereka quote dari kitab Torah nabi Musa saja, tapi juga membawa kemungkinan bahawa mereka quote dari Talmud, mungkin dari bahagian Nevi'im (Nabi-Nabi), mungkin dari bahagian Ketuvim (Penulisan2) atau mana-mana kitab para Rabbi. Kesemua ini dipanggil Taurat.
Yahudi berlainan dengan Kristian, yang sangat spesifik apabila menquote ayat-ayat daripada Bible mereka. Diorang kalaulah ayat tu dari satu kitab contohnya kitab Daniel, maka diorang akan katakan "Menurut kitab Daniel, ayat sekian-sekian..." Sedangkan Yahudi lebih umum dan gemar menisbahkan kesemua kitab suci di bawah satu payung bernama Taurat. Maka harap jelaslah bagi korang yang Talmud ini juga adalah Taurat.
Kalau terma seperti Talmud dan Taurat pun masih keliru, maka memang kelamlah kefahaman korang jawabnya bila bercakap soal kenapa Yahudi Ultra-Orthodosk tidak menjadi Zionis. Perlu diingat di sini, Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks tidak mengiktiraf negara MODEN ISRAEL tetapi diorang beriman kepada hukum bahawa Tanah Cana'an itu diberikan Tuhan kepada Umat Pilihannya keturunan Ibrahim dari jurai Israel menurut Taurat.
Korang dikelirukan oleh segelintir pengikut Neturei Karta (satu pecahan radikal jemaah Neturei Karta, kerana bukan semua pengikut Neturei Karta macam ni) yang mempunyai kepentingan politik (disokong oleh mendiang Yassir Arafat), di mana fahaman mereka tidak diiktiraf oleh mana-mana kaum Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks pun. Fahaman Neturei Karta tersasar daripada Taurat apabila mereka mengatakan Israel Moden milik orang Palestin yang menetap di Tebing Barat dan Gaza. Tidak ada kepercayaan ini dalam kalangan Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks anti-Zionis.
Pecahan Neturei Karta ni sebenarnya salah satu kumpulan yang paling kecil di antara Charedim (Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks) dan mereka tidak mempunyai hak untuk mewakili Ortodoksi mengenai pendirian dan pendekatan Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks terhadap Zionisme dan Negara Israel
Majoriti Charedim aka Ultra-Ortodoks ni tidak ada masalah dengan Negara Israel dan setiap pecahan atau kelompok dalam Ultra-Orthodoxy mempunyai beberapa darjah penerimaan yang berbeza-beza, dari Pro-Israel kepada bersikap berdiam diri atau sekurangnya saling bertoleransi dan menghormati saja. Ini semua demi konsep Klal Yisrael (Kesatuan Yahudi ) yang dianjurkan Taurat meskipun mereka non-Zionis pada dasar politiknya.
Eidah HaCharedis (Muktamar Ultra-Orthodoks) di Yerusalem telah memboikot Neturei Karta kerana tindakan-tindakan diorang yang mencemar nama baik Charedim seluruhnya. Kepimpinan Rabbinikal bagi Ultra-Orthodoks seantero dunia pulak telah menerbitkan warta berikut:
"We wish to announce to the world that we have absolutely no connection or relationship with, nor can we understand those individuals (Neturei Karta) who joined Arab demonstrators opposing the rally in Washington. They acted entirely on their own. Their way is not our way and it is well known that our President, the Holy Sage Rabbi of Satmar, does not agree with this tactic of opposing Zionism." (Central Rabbinical Congress of U.S.A. and Canada, 10 Iyar, 2002)
Bahkan jemaah Charedish (Satmar) yang paling kuat anti-Zionis inipun tidak bersetuju dengan kaedah Neturei Karta tu. Majlis Syariah jemaah Satmar, dipimpin oleh Rabbi Zalman Leib Teitelbaum, menerbitkan satu Psak (fatwa) sebagai jawapan terhadap kehadiran pemimpin Neturei Karta di Persidangan Penafian Holocaust di Tehran oleh Ahmadinejad. Padahal ironisnya, majlis penafian holokaus ni diadakan pada tarikh bersamaan 21 Kislev yang mana, merupakan Hari Kesyukuran bagi kaum Charedim yang mengingati ulang tahun terselamatnya Ketua Rabbi Satmar, Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum (1887-1979), yang diselamatkan oleh Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandl de Nitra daripada kem Penahanan Nazi - Kem Belsen Bergen bersama dengan 1 368 tawanan Yahudi yang lain.
"Those few individuals (Neturei Karta) who attended a special anti-Semitic assembly of deniers of the holocaust: themselves denied and diminished the magnitude of the wickedness and murder as well as the number of victims who died for the only sin of being Jewish; they have terribly desecrated the Almighty name all over the world, thus causing loathe and repugnance of acts of true anti-Zionism; and they are unfortunately on a downward spiral with acts of lunacy, unprecedented by faithful Jews who believe in the Almighty."
Hampir semua orang bukan Yahudi salah faham akibat perbuatan Neturei Karta ni. Hanya dengan melihat lambakan video-video demonstrasi dan perarakan yang dihadiri Neturei Karta, ramai orang percaya seolah-olah seluruh dunia Yahudi Ultra-Ortodoks melawan Zionisme dan Negara Israel dengan kaedah seperti kelompok kecil radikal ni lakukan. Korang harus tahu bahawa walaupun Yahudi Ultra-Ortodoks tidak berfahaman Zionisme, dari segi kefahaman agama berkenaan orang-orang Yahudi berhak untuk mewarisi Tanah Canaan tu sama saja dengan Yahudi Zionism (malah lebih kuat lagi jika berbanding Zionis yang tidak beragama).
Senang saja nak membezakan Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks dengan Yahudi Zionis. Iaitu apabila merujuk kepada Israel, orang Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks sebut sebagai Eretz Yisrael - The Land of Israel sedangkan Yahudi Zionis yang mengiktirafi negara moden Israel memanggilnya sebagai Medinat Yisrael - The State of Israel
Hal ini kerana dalam agama Yahudi, tidak ada negara sekular, tidak ada negara kebangsaan moden. Yang ada hanyalah negara syariah Yahudi yang dipimpin oleh pemimpin pilihan Tuhan. Jika negara moden sekular yang dipimpin Yahudi itu tidak diiktiraf mereka, apatah lagi negara moden kebangsaan Arab Palestin yang meletupkan anak-anak mereka di Yerusalem itu? Sudah tentulah mereka juga tidak akan iktirafinya. Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks tidak mengiktirafi mana-mana negara moden, tetapi mereka tidak sesekali akan menentangnya kerana itu hukum Taurat. Dalam perkara negara Israel Moden, Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks tidak mengiktirafinya sebagai negara yang dijanji Taurat sepertimana dakwaan Yahudi Moden-Orthodoks tetapi diorang tidak akan menentangnya sama seperti diorang tak menentang mana-mana negara di dunia ini.
Jadi, dari manakah timbulnya fahaman mengatakan Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks mengiktiraf negara Palestin dan menentang negara Israel? Tidak ada sebenarnya. Yang ada hanyalah fahaman sebilangan kecil (berjumlah 300 orang) Neturei Karta yang dibayar mendiang Yassir Arafat sehingga berjaya mengelirukan orang ramai. Kononnya Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks tidak mengiktiraf Israel dan mengharamkan menjejakkan kaki ke Israel selagimana Messiah belum datang.
Kalaulah haram menjejakkan kaki ke Israel, buat apalah diorang yang sibuk-sibuk menjadi pendatang haram di Tebing Barat tu, sampai berlaku pergaduhan dengan Arab Palestin. Bahkan dalam Neturei Karta sendiri, sudah ada perpecahan, di mana pecahan utama tidaklah radikal seperti golongan yang kita lihat dalam video-video tunjuk perasaan dan video bersama Ahmadinejad itu.
Tanah Suci biasanya jadik tempat berteduh pelarian2........ sama ler macam kat Mekah sana. Bukannya 100% diduduki penduduk tempatan pong kalo kawan2 Melayu ada masuk ke sana ler atau dah sampai "seru"* mengikot istilah Melayu nenek moyang .
* sebenarnya, bapak kami, nabi Ibrahim (as) memang diperintahkan seru hamba Allah SWT untuk tunaikan haji di sana, bila baginda berdiri atas batu yang skang neh jadik maqam Ibrahim (as), tempat di mana tuk2 guru Melayu cakap bagus semayang sunat kat situ. seruan bapak kami, nabi Ibrahim (as) tu disampaikan oleh Allah SWT snirik dalam Quran n kitab2 Suci yg mulia. x bukak kitab suci, maka x sampailah seruan, selain drpd berkemampuan menunaikan rukun Islam ke-5 tu bg yg bersaksi kenabian n kerasulan nabi Muhammad (saw).... bukan sebab "seru" dr mana2 tu x sampai, hahahahaaha....... errr, hal ni x berkaitan dgn konspirasi Yahudi n Nazrani
Post Last Edit by zaharul_asriq94 at 16-12-2009 20:34
Salam adik zaharul_asriq
Lambang Bendera tu sebenarnya adalah kain Tallit iaitu Prayer Shawl, di mana sesetengah orang Islam pun memakainya semasa beribadah atau berkhutbah. Corak Prayer Shaw ...
migdal_bavel Post at 16-12-2009 17:28
urmmm, aku ingatkan Talmud tu macam Hadith jer... makasih atas penerangan ko tu Migdal, skang baru aku paham yang Talmud pon dikira sebagai sebahagian Taurat gak tapi dalam versi Lisan. Aku anggap bahagian Taurat tu cuma yg bertulis je selama nih n Talmud tu lebih kurang macam Hadith2 nabi Musa atau nabi2 lain ker. Aku rasa mmg btol kalo korang briman ngan Talmud gak.
Jangan jadik macam konon2 Islam feeling Liberal kat sneh, bajet dorang betol lar bila buang Sunnah n Hadith sb kena amik isi Quran pastu tafsirkan ikot kemodenan macam yang golongan Mu'tazilah pernah buat, tapi dorang x cermat plak kat bahagian Hadith Qudsi yg sbenarnya diwahyukan oleh Jibrail (as), ikot iktikad kami yang Sunnah ni. Hadith Qudsi beza plak dengan Hadith2 nabi yang biasa, cuma x dibaca dalam semayang je macam ayat2 Quran n xde Basmallah.
aku rasa kalo dorang nampak aku "massaha'rra's" atau sapu rambot dengan minyak zaitun slepas amik wuduk n sebelom pegang kitab suci atau sblom smayang, mesti dorang akan kata aku pengikot ajaran sesat n penyembah setan sb nenek moyang dorang xbuat macam tu n tetiba satu masa tu, dorang kena setia kat nenek moyang Melayu dorang plak, Tuhan paham bahasa macam2 n orang Arab ni bangsa Sial walopon kitorang x nah jajah dorang, sebaliknya selalu bantu dorang lawan penjajah tanpa bezakan identiti bangsa .
1. The first aircraft hijacking was carried out by Israel in 1954 against a Syrian civilian airliner.
2. Grenades in cafes: first used by Zionists against Palestinians in Jerusalem on 17 March 1937.
3. Delayed-action, electrically timed mines in crowded marketplaces: first used by Zionists against Palestinians in Haifa on 6 July 1938.
4. Blowing up a ship with its civilian passengers still on board: first carried out by Zionists in Haifa on 25 November 1940. The Zionists did not hesitate to blow up their own people in protest at the British policy of restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine. The ship, Patria, was carrying 1,700 Jewish immigrants.
5. Assassination of government officials: first carried out by the Zionists against the British in Cairo, when on 6 November 1944 Lord Moyne was assassinated by the Stern Gang. Yitzhak Shamir, a member of the Irgun and later leader of the Stern Gang and Israeli prime minister, was behind the plan.
6. Use of hostages as a means of putting pressure on a government: first used by the Zionists against the British in Tel Aviv on 18 June 1946.
7. Blowing up of government offices with their civilian employees and visitors: first carried out by the Zionists against the British in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946. The toll was 91 Britons killed and 46 wounded in the King David Hotel. Menachim Begin, who masterminded and carried out the attack and later became Israeli prime minister, admitted that the massacre was coordinated with and carried out under the instruction of the Haganah Zionist gang.
8. Booby-trapped suitcases: first used by the Zionists against the British Embassy in Rome on 13 October 1946.
9. Booby-trapped cars in civilian areas: first used by the Zionists against the British in Sarafand (east of Jaffa) on 5 December 1946.
10. Beating of hostages: first used by the Zionists against the British in Tel Aviv, Netanya and Rishon on 29 December 1946.
11. Letter bombs sent to politicians: first used by the Zionists against Britain when 20 letter bombs were sent from Italy to London between 4 and 6 June 1947.
12. Murder of hostages as a reprisal for government actions: first used by the Zionists against the British in the Netanya area on 29 July 1947.
13. Postal parcel bombs: first used by the Zionists against the British in London on 3 September 1947.
14. The massacre of Qibya, northwest of Jerusalem, was carried out by Unit 101, under the command of Ariel Sharon on Wednesday 14 October 1953. The attack was the bloodiest and most brutal Zionist crimes since the infamous Deir Yassin massacre. Forty-two houses as well as a school and a mosque were dynamited over their inhabitants. Seventy-five women, men and children were killed.
migdal sbnarnya sejak aku baca Negara Israel (bberapa bulan lepas) minda aku rasa ringan skit sbb tjawab gak la kecetekan ilmu aku psal isu n sjarah Israel/Palestin.
saje2 aku je ikut rentak pnyokong palestin mbabi buta ni (kalu ada) takut2 la kena cop jadi pnyokong zionis plak
nak tnya apa pndapat ko pasal tanah suci Mekah.
adakah org yahudi dulu2 kena wat haji x kat mekah? apa pndapat ko bkenaan tindakan mnghapus suku2 yahudi yg wujud kat madinah? ikut versi islam diorg dhukum sbab jadi tali barut pd org kafir quraisy?
aq ada jumpa satu bukti yg ada orng Yahudi pergi ke Mekkah tunaikan haji!
In the Book of Ezekiel (Ch, 40-47) , He tells us about a journey had been done for him by the Lord (or an Angel) in his vision...from his description to this journey we can conclude the following points...:
1) The Place and Time:
Ezekiel:
40:1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.
40:2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
In these 2 verses Ezekiel detects the time of this journey (in the beginning of the year,in the tenth day of the month)..In fact I am not sure weather this is the ACCURATE Translation of the verse (or of what Ezekiel really meant) or No...but Jews used to use the Lunar months exactly as Muslims..and it's well known that the 10th day of the LAST month is Eid Al Adha during the pilgrimage o Mecca every year...Whatever, I find the similarities between the 2 dates (Eid Al Adha and the Journey of Ezekiel) ..The rest of the story will make it clear though..!
but What about the PLACE?..Well..let's read :
"God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south."..
The City is in SOUTH to the Land of Israel, Where it's enclosed by Mountains...What is this City?...Without any doubt Mecca just lies in the south of Land of Israel and it's enclosed by Mountains..Yet..Further proofs are followed in his description to that place..!
2) The shape of that Place:
Ezekiel describes to us the shape of that place in Chapters 40-43..:
42:15 Now when he had made an end of measuring the inner house, he brought me forth toward the gate whose prospect is toward the east, and measured it round about.
42:16 He measured the east side with the measuring reed, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about.
42:17 He measured the north side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about.
42:18 He measured the south side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed.
42:19 He turned about to the west side, and measured five hundred reeds with the measuring reed.
42:20 He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.
According to this shape, this place is foursquare in shape ..!
3) The Sacred House: (Al Ka'aba):
41:4 So he measured the length thereof, twenty cubits; and the breadth, twenty cubits, before the temple: and he said unto me, This is the most holy place.
According to this SHAPE of the HOLY PLACE, it's also foursquare..and it's well known that Al Ka'aba is as well 4square building...Is there any other sacred house having the same shape in Christianity or Judaism?..!
Further more, Ezekiel predicts the enlargement of the House ..Let's read:
41:7 And there was an enlarging, and a winding about still upward to the side chambers: for the winding about of the house went still upward round about the house: therefore the breadth of the house was still upward, and so increased from the lowest chamber to the highest by the midst.
4) Going around the House & Zamzam water:
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
47:2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
47:3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
47:4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
47:5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
Well, in these verses Ezekiel talks about his going around the House and exactly at he side of the Muslim pilgrimage, but..he has found water under the house, what kind of water?..
It's superabundant water coming down from under from the right side of the house and south of the altar (will be discussed later)..!
His description to this water and how it's superabundant, just refers to the Water of Zamzam....it's been now for more than 1400 years used in Mecca and the surrounding places and it's still abundant well...!
Concentrate on Ezekiel's description to the water and Prophet Muhammad's :
"it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over"...Ezekiel in 47:5
"May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." ..Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)..!
*About the Altar:
41:22 The altar of wood was three cubits high, and the length thereof two cubits; and the corners thereof, and the length thereof, and the walls thereof, were of wood: and he said unto me, This is the table that is before the LORD.
According to this description, we understand that this altar is just symbolic one not for slaughtering animals, as it's small for such thing,and it's exactly just like the station of Abraham (Maqaam'e Ibrahim) and at the same place described in Eze 47:1..!
5) Pilgrims and Pilgrimage:
44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD.
44:16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.
44:17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
44:19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
Well, I think the image of these verses are pretty clear,need no interpretation ..Just to note :
Ezekiel calls the pilgrims "Priests of Levites"..
that would happen when people of Israel go astray from God..(so they aren't from Israel*the pilgrims*)
He describes their clothes when they enter the inner court, "they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within,They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins"..and this is exactly the clothes of Muslim pilgrims..!
Further description to Pilgrims :"and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments." and this is what's called Al'Ihlaal..!
Conclusion:"Ezekiel was in Pilgrimage (Or at least Umrah)"..!
Aku bertanya-tanya dari dulu lagi bagaimana ada orang Muslim boleh menghakimi Zionisme menurut sudut pandangan dia sendiri, dan menyiratkan mana-mana Yahudi Zionis sebagai murtad terhadap agama Judaism. Satu kepelikan yang nyata.
Zionism memang berasal daripada sebuah gagasan ideologi sekular (maka sudah tentulah bertentangan dengan Judaism) akan tetapi, Zionism ni sudah melalui evolusi dan perubahan, sehingga menimbulkan banyak persepsi dan fahaman di antara orang-orang Yahudi pada kemudian hari. Jadi muncullah pelbagai pecahan atau mazhab dalam Zionism sendiri.
Religious Zionism misalnya telah memansuhkan anasir sekularism dalam proto-Zionisme (aka Zionism yang asal) sehingga ia telah menjadi intipati ajaran-Ortodoks Moden (yang merupakan bentuk utama Yahudi di Israel). Kami tak kisah jika korang menentang terhadap semua jenis mazhab sekular dalam Zionism (liberal, buruh, reformasi dll)
Tapi bila ada yang membawa hujah kononnya Judaism per se secara keseluruhannya tidak mengiktiraf Zionism (seolah-olah termasuk Zionism berbentuk agama - Religious Zionism), ak rasa sangat pelik dengan hujah semacam ni.
Kebanyakan orang Yahudi adalah Zionis dan majoriti denominasi atau mazhab Yahudi atau gerakan keagamaan (Reformasi, Konservatif, Rekonstruksionis, Konservadox dll) adalah Zionis dari segi dogma keagamaannya.
Dari segi Mainstream Judaism (Orthodoxy) itu sendiri, tidak ada penjelasan Halachah (Syariah) yang hitam putih sama ada Zionism yang berbentuk keagamaan (Religious Zionism) ini bertentangan dengan Judaism atau tidak.
Yahudi Modern-orthodox adalah Zionis sementara sebaliknya Yahudi Ultra-Ortodox bukan Zionis, tetapi kedua dunia Ortodoks ini saling berhubung dan mengiktirafi autoriti antara satu sama lain dari segi keagamaan meskipun mereka berbeza dari segi pengiktirafan terhadap konsep asas Zionism - yakni Yahudi berhak untuk mewujudkan satu negara bangsa moden sendiri
Jadi, macam mana ada orang dari agama lain tiba-tiba datang membawa kesimpulan yang kononnya seluruh Yahudi Ortodoks menentang Zionisme? Siapakah yang dimaksudkan dengan Yahudi Orthodoks? Pecahan yang mana?
Sebenarnya, banyak lagi yang tidak benar-benar mengerti tentang sejauh manakah tahap anti-Zionism dalam kalangan Charedim (Yahudi Ultra-Ortodoks). Korang cenderung memukul rata setiap Charedi menjadi seperti Neturei Karta yang pendekatan anti-Zionisme sangat radikal dan terkeluar dari jumhurnya. Hal ini kerana banyak dari korang yang masih tidak tahu mengenai jemaah-jemaah dan kumpulan-kumpulan dalam Ultra-Orthodoks ni.
Golongan Charedim boleh dikategorikan kepada dua buah kumpulan;
Yeshivim hanya menentang intipati sekularisme yang wujud dalam proto-Zionism tetapi mereka menyokong Zionism dalam bentuk keagamaan dan juga Negara Israel. Sedangkan Chassidim pula adalah golongan yang korang semua keliru berkenaan tahap dan darjah penerimaan mereka terhadap Zionism sehingga korang cenderung untuk menisbahkan gaya radikal Neturei Karta [NK] kepada setiap kumpulan/jemaah Chassidim (tanpa korang tahu NK sendiri bukanlah Chassidic)
Dari generalisasi inilah korang terus menganggap Mainstream Judaism itu menentang Zionism.
Chassidish (atau Hassidic) ini pula terbahagi kepada banyak kumpulan (aka Dinasti) yang mempunyai aliran mereka sendiri dan Grand-Rebbe (Ulama Muktabar) sendiri untuk mereka rujuk.
Antara jemaah besar yang paling utama atau kumpulan berpengaruh ialah jemaah Chabad-Lubavitch, Breslov, Satmar, Belz, Ger, Bobov dan Vishnitz. Sewaktu di ambang bermulanya ideologi Zionism (sudah tentunya sewaktu itu ia dalam bentuk sekular), setiap kumpulan dalam Ultra-Orthodoxy menentang Zionism.
Di antara Chassidim, golongan Satmarer (ahli Jemaah Satmar) merupakan suara yang paling kuat dalam menentang Zionism (baik Zionism dalam bentuk sekular mahupun Zionism dalam bentuk keagamaan) ketika Grand-Rebbe mereka - Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum (1887-1979) menulis sebuah kitab halachah berjudul Sefer Va Yoiel Moishe yang membahas tentang Ma'amar Shalosh Shevu'os (Three Binding Oaths) dalam dua bahagian.
Pada dasarnya, tiga sumpah ini adalah daripada ayat Talmud: Masechet Ketuvot: 110:beit yang mana, dijadikan hujah utama yang disarankan oleh Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum untuk mengecam Zionism dan penubuhan negara bangsa moden Israel. Dalam syarahannya melalui kitab itu, beliau sangat tegas berkenaan tafsirannya terhadap ayat Mishnah tersebut.
Banyak jemaah-jemaah kecil Chassidish yang bernaung dan berkolaborasi dengan Satmarer cenderung untuk menganggap kitab-kitab yang ditulis oleh Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum sebagai kitab yang muktabar terhadap jemaah-jemaah mereka juga.
Oleh sebab itulah suara anti-Zionis kaum Charedish yang lebih kedengaran ialah pandangan menurut kefahaman yang berasal dari Satmarer jika berbanding dengan jemaah Charedish lebih besar lain yang mempunyai pandangan lebih lembut (seperti orang-orang Yahudi boleh bernaung sebagai rakyat awam di negara moden lsrael meskipun tidak berfahaman Zionism).
Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum sangat yakin dalam nubuatnya bahawa Negara Israel Moden ini akan dihancurkan oleh Tuhan dalam satu tempoh masa yang sangat singkat selepas penubuhannya tetapi ajaibnya, perkara yang sebaliknya berlaku - Israel terus bertahan dan berkembang maju sehingga ke hari ini.
Sejak kaum Chadashim (Modern Orthodox) telah banyak kali menyangkal dan mematahkan kitab Va Yoiel Moishe, sementara banyak jemaah utama Chassidish (khususnya Chabadnik, Belzer, Breslover, Gerer, dan Vishnitzer) telah mula mengiktiraf Israel dan membuat Aliyah untuk memiliki beberapa tahap hubungan dengan Negara Moden Israel, pandangan popular berkenaan Mainstream Judaism menentang Zionism (atau yang selalu korang gelarkan sebagai Yahudi Orthodoks) menjadi lapuk dan tidak benar lagi.
Siapa tidak kenal Parti Degel HaTorah (Parti kaum Yeshivim) dan Parti Agudat Yisroel (Parti Kaum Chassidim) yang bersatu membentuk United Torah Judaism Party di mana, merekalah yang bertugas untuk mentarbiyah negara sekular Israel dari dalam sebagai persiapan untuk kedatangan Messiah. Israel semakin hari menjadi semakin semi-Teokrasi akibat pengaruh parti-parti Orthodoks yang mula membuat hubungan dengan Israel meskipun mereka tidak berfahaman Zionis.
Kini, jemaah-jemaah Chassidish minor yang pernah mempunyai pegangan anti-Zionis versi sudut pandangan aliran Satmarer sebelum ini telah mulai memisahkan diri mereka dan mencari tafsiran mereka sendiri dalam hukum membuat hubungan dengan Negara Moden Israel pada tahap yang tertentu dan mengurangkan penentangan mereka terhadap Zionism. Kini status mereka ialah non-Zionism dan bukan lagi anti-Zionism.
Untuk menyimpulkan bahawa Zionism (bahkan Zionism berbentuk keagamaan yang menjadi tunjang ajaran Modern Orthodoxy, Reform, Conservative, Conservadox, Karaism, Samaritanism etc) adalah bertentangan terhadap Judaism bukanlah korang punya hak.
Kerana dalam Mainstream Judaism (Orthodoxy) itu sendiri, ada hujah yang kuat dari kedua belah pihak (walaupun secara peribadi ak akan mengatakan hujah yang menyokong Religious Zionism lebih kuat). Sekarang korang patut tahu bahawa Modern Orthodox menyokong Religious Zionism manakala Ultra-Ortodox mengkritik Zionism.
Janganlah terkeliru lagi dengan tipu daya Neturei Karta yang menggunakan fahaman Satmarer yang keras tetapi pergi lebih jauh lagi dengan melampaui batasan seperti berdemonstrasi dengan musuh kaum Yahudi, menghadiri majlis penafian Holocaust (yang sangat signifikan dalam sejarah Charedim kerana ratusan dinasti Chassidic telah pupus dan jutaan orang Charedim yang mati semasa Holocaust)
Sangat tidak adil bagi Yahudi untuk orang dari agama lain menghakimi kami (Zionis Yahudi) sebagai sesat atau kafir di sisi Judaism. Ini adalah soal Halachah yang agak kompleks. Kalau Talmud pun tak diketahui sebagai kitab Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks anti-Zionis, jangan mimpilah untuk menyebarkan khabar angin versi konspirasi kepada orang lain.
Pertama-tama sekali untuk korang berhujah mengenai kedudukan Zionism di sisi Judaism ini, sila mempelajari terlebih dahulu konsep Taurat, sila mempelajari Midrash (Tafsiran) daripada Ma'amar Shalosh Shevu'os (The 3 Binding Oaths) dan komentar oleh Gedolim kami (Ulama Muktabar); baik golongan Rishonim (Salafi) dan juga Acharonim (Khalafi). Dan cubalah menghubungkaitkannya dengan penjelasan antara dua hujah (sokongan atau kritikan terhadap Zionism menurut Modern Orthodoxy atau Ultra-Orthodoxy).
Maka terserahlah kepada sesiapa akhirnya untuk memilih pada sudut pandangan yang mana. Perlu diingat kembali bahawa Judaism tidaklah seperti dalam agama korang (di mana fenomena "kafir mengkafir" masih tersebar luas) meskipun dahulu kala, semasa zaman timbulnya pelbagai mazhab menyaksikan keadaan yang serupa. Akan tetapi semangat Klal Yisrael (Kesatuan Yahudi) dalam jiwa telah mengajarkan kami untuk mengenepikan perbezaan dan mencari titik persamaan.
urmmm, aku ingatkan Talmud tu macam Hadith jer... makasih atas penerangan ko tu Migdal, skang baru aku paham yang Talmud pon dikira sebagai sebahagian Taurat gak tapi dalam versi Lisan. Aku anggap bahagian Taurat tu cuma yg bertulis je selama nih n Talmud tu lebih kurang macam Hadith2 nabi Musa atau nabi2 lain ker. Aku rasa mmg btol kalo korang briman ngan Talmud gak.
Yea, Talmud tu dipanggil Torah Shebe'al Peh (Oral Law). Kalau TeNa"CH (Hebrew Bible) tu dipanggil Torah Shebichtav (Written Law).
TeNa"CH=Torah (Kitab Musa) + Nevi'im + Ketuvim
Kesemua ini dipanggil Taurat. Kalau ada orang yang kurang faham, akan salah faham bila anggap Taurat tu hanya merujuk kepada kitab nabi Musa. Menurut Pirkei Avot (Sabda Para Leluhur) iaitu salah satu kitab dalam Talmud, ayat-ayat Taurat Lisan (dipanggil Mishnah) ini diwahyukan kepada nabi Musa semasa ia bermunajat sebanyak 40 hari di Gunung Sinai.
Jangan jadik macam konon2 Islam feeling Liberal kat sneh, bajet dorang betol lar bila buang Sunnah n Hadith sb kena amik isi Quran pastu tafsirkan ikot kemodenan macam yang golongan Mu'tazilah pernah buat, tapi dorang x cermat plak kat bahagian Hadith Qudsi yg sbenarnya diwahyukan oleh Jibrail (as), ikot iktikad kami yang Sunnah ni. Hadith Qudsi beza plak dengan Hadith2 nabi yang biasa, cuma x dibaca dalam semayang je macam ayat2 Quran n xde Basmallah.
dalam agama Yahudi ada mazhab yang tak percayakan Talmud seperti Karaism dan Samaritanism. Bahkan ada orang Yahudi Zionis sekular pun tak percayakan Talmud. Entah macam mana ada orang kata Talmud tu kitab Zionis. Walhal dalam Talmud lah yang ada ayat-ayat yang sering digunakan oleh Yahudi Ultra-Orthodoks untuk mengkritik Zionism.
aku rasa kalo dorang nampak aku "massaha'rra's" atau sapu rambot dengan minyak zaitun slepas amik wuduk n sebelom pegang kitab suci atau sblom smayang, mesti dorang akan kata aku pengikot ajaran sesat n penyembah setan sb nenek moyang dorang xbuat macam tu n tetiba satu masa tu, dorang kena setia kat nenek moyang Melayu dorang plak, Tuhan paham bahasa macam2 n orang Arab ni bangsa Sial walopon kitorang x nah jajah dorang, sebaliknya selalu bantu dorang lawan penjajah tanpa bezakan identiti bangsa
genot Post at 16-12-2009 20:33
Itu adat kita, jangan lupakan adat leluhur kita biarlah orang nak kata apapun, nak kata kuno pun
x silap aku daripada cerita lisan aku dengar daripada orang2 kat Madinah skang neh, dorang cakap smua orang kat Tanah Arab n kawasan sekitar memang naik Haji kat Mekah..... masa zaman jahiliah (dark ages Arab) pon dorang masih lagik tunaikan haji di situ.....
Jerusalem tu diangkat jadik Tanah Suci sebab kerajaan orang2 beriman yg dah establish (dalam konteks ni, orang Israel) jauh dari kawasan suci di Mekah sana....
Nabi Musa pernah hantar satu kumpulan orang Israel ke Yathrib untuk hapuskan smua skali kaum Amaliqah di sana. Tapi dorang dah wat silap n biarkan sorang Amir (Putera) orang Amaliqah terlepas lari.... Jadi dorang malu nak balik, lagi plak dengarnya nabi Musa (as) larang dorang balik kalo dorang x hapuskan suku kaum ganaszzzzz tu.....
ermmm, x yah tengok kat zaman nabi Musa pon x apa. Dalam tradisi agama Islam ada jah kisah pasal nabi Ibrahim (as), nabi Ibrahim kan moyang kami yg sama gak dengan moyang bangsa Ibrani..... baginda atuk kepada Israel (nabi Ya'akob) n Ismail (as) plak bapak sedara pada Israel..... pentingnya korang bukak balik riwayat2 Arab lama n boleh gak la bukak kitab Taurat... x dosa pong.... aku pong baca gak..... jangan ler asik nak konspirasi yahudi nazrani jer, simpati n gerun aku baca kisah Anne Frank tu........... perang n pergaduhan memang la makan banyak korban :cry:
waahh..dlm lagu negara pun depa terapkanperangi islam secara tersirat...dan impikan baitulmaqdis.... tanah depa dah jadi tasik dh....mn ada tanah...yahudi laknatullah..
susano Post at 15-12-2009 20:24
kenapa nak terapkan perangi islam pula? Lihatlah apakah erti HaTikvah untuk setiap Yahudi tidak kiralah di mana dia berada
yang ni mcm mana plak bro migdal?
satu bukti yg ada orng Yahudi pergi ke Mekkah tunaikan haji!
In the Book of Ezekiel (Ch, 40-47) , He tells us about a journey had been done for him by the Lord (or an Angel) in his vision...from his description to this journey we can conclude the following points...:
1) The Place and Time:
Ezekiel:
40:1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the LORD was upon me, and brought me thither.
40:2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
In these 2 verses Ezekiel detects the time of this journey (in the beginning of the year,in the tenth day of the month)..In fact I am not sure weather this is the ACCURATE Translation of the verse (or of what Ezekiel really meant) or No...but Jews used to use the Lunar months exactly as Muslims..and it's well known that the 10th day of the LAST month is Eid Al Adha during the pilgrimage o Mecca every year...Whatever, I find the similarities between the 2 dates (Eid Al Adha and the Journey of Ezekiel) ..The rest of the story will make it clear though..!
but What about the PLACE?..Well..let's read :
"God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south."..
The City is in SOUTH to the Land of Israel, Where it's enclosed by Mountains...What is this City?...Without any doubt Mecca just lies in the south of Land of Israel and it's enclosed by Mountains..Yet..Further proofs are followed in his description to that place..!
2) The shape of that Place:
Ezekiel describes to us the shape of that place in Chapters 40-43..:
42:15 Now when he had made an end of measuring the inner house, he brought me forth toward the gate whose prospect is toward the east, and measured it round about.
42:16 He measured the east side with the measuring reed, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about.
42:17 He measured the north side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about.
42:18 He measured the south side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed.
42:19 He turned about to the west side, and measured five hundred reeds with the measuring reed.
42:20 He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.
According to this shape, this place is foursquare in shape ..!
3) The Sacred House: (Al Ka'aba):
41:4 So he measured the length thereof, twenty cubits; and the breadth, twenty cubits, before the temple: and he said unto me, This is the most holy place.
According to this SHAPE of the HOLY PLACE, it's also foursquare..and it's well known that Al Ka'aba is as well 4square building...Is there any other sacred house having the same shape in Christianity or Judaism?..!
Further more, Ezekiel predicts the enlargement of the House ..Let's read:
41:7 And there was an enlarging, and a winding about still upward to the side chambers: for the winding about of the house went still upward round about the house: therefore the breadth of the house was still upward, and so increased from the lowest chamber to the highest by the midst.
4) Going around the House & Zamzam water:
47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
47:2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
47:3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
47:4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
47:5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.
Well, in these verses Ezekiel talks about his going around the House and exactly at he side of the Muslim pilgrimage, but..he has found water under the house, what kind of water?..
It's superabundant water coming down from under from the right side of the house and south of the altar (will be discussed later)..!
His description to this water and how it's superabundant, just refers to the Water of Zamzam....it's been now for more than 1400 years used in Mecca and the surrounding places and it's still abundant well...!
Concentrate on Ezekiel's description to the water and Prophet Muhammad's :
"it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over"...Ezekiel in 47:5
"May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael's mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." ..Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)..!
*About the Altar:
41:22 The altar of wood was three cubits high, and the length thereof two cubits; and the corners thereof, and the length thereof, and the walls thereof, were of wood: and he said unto me, This is the table that is before the LORD.
According to this description, we understand that this altar is just symbolic one not for slaughtering animals, as it's small for such thing,and it's exactly just like the station of Abraham (Maqaam'e Ibrahim) and at the same place described in Eze 47:1..!
5) Pilgrims and Pilgrimage:
44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD.
44:16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.
44:17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
44:19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
44:21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
Well, I think the image of these verses are pretty clear,need no interpretation ..Just to note :
Ezekiel calls the pilgrims "Priests of Levites"..
that would happen when people of Israel go astray from God..(so they aren't from Israel*the pilgrims*)
He describes their clothes when they enter the inner court, "they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within,They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins"..and this is exactly the clothes of Muslim pilgrims..!
Further description to Pilgrims :"and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments." and this is what's called Al'Ihlaal..!
Conclusion:"Ezekiel was in Pilgrimage (Or at least Umrah)"..!
Author
Post time 16-12-2009 04:09 PM
Gurau yer bang. Zionism tu hanya ideologi politik, ia tidak dibataskan oleh agama. Yahudi Orthodoks pun boleh menjadi Zionis, mana-mana agamapun boleh menjadi Zionis. Kerana Zionism tu hanyalah ko percaya kaum Yahudi boleh ada negara sendiri. Itulah secara asasnya.
