What Soora 2:23 really says to SFE Talk?

laksa

aku rasa bosan ngan thread ni...dah 17 page.. tapi takde kemajuan... sampai bila nak macam ni?

sonny~~

toptoink for scrutiny  ;)

sonny~~

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 2004-4-17 12:17 PM:
toptoink for scrutiny  ;)

Debmey

First of all, i wold like to thank sonny for top toining this thread for all tio see. To show how pathetic muslim debaters are. Hahahahahahahah.................

yes sonny? So where are the objective criteria for the challenge?
i know a  load of muslims have failed, but can yu make sura 2:23,24 intelligible for once and do somethbing useful for your islamic faith?

peace

[ Last edited by Debmey on 20-4-2004 at 08:49 AM ]

sonny~~

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-4-20 08:48 AM:
First of all, i wold like to thank sonny for top toining this thread for all tio see. To show how pathetic muslim debaters are. Hahahahahahahah.................

yes sonny? So where are t ...

read.  so who's blur?  u or the muslims?  

peace

Originally posted by kid at 2004-4-14 07:07 PM:


17 pages of explanations.... amazing!, watched and understood by all member who participate in this thread BUT you!

Now what more you expect... I guess no more... actually we expect you to be at least smarter than now.

Fuzzman

Thank you Darsita for opening this thread once more. I do appreciate your style of moderating that banks on fairplay. Thanks again.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 4-8-2004 at 11:21 PM ]

Fuzzman

....but this thread is dead anyway, what with Debmey and SFE Talk either gone AWOL or got KIA'd away from the shores of Singland. Of course I do not expect Truth or anyone that's left from Debbo's outfit that will be willing to size up to the 2:23.

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Since Debmey is out of hiding, I dare Debmey to haul arse back here and get on with the business of putting down the 2:23. C'mon c'mon c'mon Debbo, where is your response to my Objective Criteria? Where? Where?

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

Seeing that no one [ especially Debmey ] can carry on the task of proving soora 2:23 to be truly impossible or superficial to its verse, I must conclude that the only logical reason for this calamity lies in the fact that past, present and future opposition has, have and will be inundated by massive misconclusion, misunderstanding and misintepretation of the true worth and message that comes forth from soora 2:23.

Soora 2:23 : And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

We can therefore safely and without any reasonable doubt proclaim that soora 2:23 truthfully proves that Quran is from Allah brought forth through a Messenger named Mohamad. Peace to all.

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

grow up Fuzzman, up till now you haven't been able to even give any objective criteria for the challenge.

Lets start now.

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-8-13 12:06 PM:
grow up Fuzzman, up till now you haven't been able to even give any objective criteria for the challenge. Lets start now.

You mean to say that I need to "grow up"? Now that's a laugh. I've always been a GROWN UP, just waiting on you to grow up and face your fears my friend. Some people have ghouls, spooks or even urban legends waiting on them under their beds or in dark cupboards, but yours..it has gotta be the 2:23.

The soora 2:23 in itself is already a very "fine-tuned" OBJECTIVE CRITERIA.[OC] If you do not agree, then make your case very very clear. Tell us all why the contents of the 2:23 is not OC material

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Really? Where? Where are teh objective criteria for this challenge? Lets see it.

cheerslollollol

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-8-13 03:21 PM:
Really? Where? Where are teh objective criteria for this challenge? Lets see it.cheerslollollol

What a nervous laugh you got going there? See, you are [as usual] avoiding my line of questioning. You haven't even tried to face up to describing your disagreements in a intelligent manner.

Read again.
Soora 2:23 : And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

Now tell me in a confident manner as to where within the verse of Soora 2:23 is the primary or connecting element/s that has failed it as a objective criteria to the credibility of Quran being sent from Allah? And this time we can do without your nervous laughter!

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Soora 2:23 : And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.


Sura like it? In what ways like the Quran? As ridiculous as the Quran? As false as the Quran or as contradictory as the Quran?

Where criteria for such a comparison? How can it be made objective?                             

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: In what ways like the Quran? As ridiculous as the Quran? As false as the Quran or as contradictory as the Quran?

How frustrated you must be when you are in a 2:23 quagmire? What you write reflects the loath you have for Islam and Quran. That is the main reason you cannot stay focused in addressing the 2:23 because you do not have intend [and cannot] in doing so. You go bash for the sake of "stress release"! LOL.

Debmey wrote: Where criteria for such a comparison? How can it be made objective?  

Again the same old line of questioning that ends as just that. Of course it is expected that you will not deliver anything more beyond this method. Anyhows I will  [as always as a patient Moslem] oblige you.

Looking for a criteria that is as objective as it could ever be? The 2:23 is befitting of a perfect objective criteria in itself and you know that for a fact.

Look again people and see how blind Debmey really is.
Soora 2:23 : And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.

So how applies the OBJECTIVE CRITERIA for the 2:23 ?

What means the word "objective"?
As and adjective it means - Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
As a noun it means - Something worked toward or striven for; a goal.

What means the word "criteria"?
A standard, rule, or test on which a judgment or decision can be based.

Now the 2:23 calls for a doubtor to produce a soora of any choice that is collective as the other sooras in the Quran, that has been given from time to time through the Messenger. Through periods of reign, events and idealogies.

BTW you have [as always] chosen to ignore my question to you. It's time you made something intelligent of it my fren?

Here it is again.

Now tell me in a confident manner as to where within the verse of Soora 2:23 is the primary or connecting element/s that has failed it as a objective criteria to the credibility of Quran being sent from Allah?

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

I've proven it once more that people like Debmey and  Truth cannot take the heat of real debate or discussion. When we Moslems get down to real hardtalk about disagreements, these so-called "saviors of the pitiful misled Moslems" always come away with their disappearing acts.

So where are you Debmey? Why not just own up to your failure of being unable to explain the very clear and simple contents of soora 2:23, let alone "dream" of even trying taking on the 2:23 in its entity? Rhetoric doesn't work in your favor all the time you know?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Still cannot provide any objective criteria for teh sura like it challenge? Great! Keep this thread up as a testimony to Muslim bigotry please.

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-8-24 10:25:
Still cannot provide any objective criteria for teh sura like it challenge? Great! Keep this thread up as a testimony to Muslim bigotry please.

It is sad to see how you have to come back to this challenge thing, AGAIN.  When someone posts the criteria to be followed, you argue that.  It is evidence that you will never meet the challenge, no matter what your excuse is.

Debmey

Where are the criteria for the challenge? Fuzzman did not even try.

You deny the criteria while CHRISTIANS ((SCHOLARS)) have commented on it:

Alfred Guillaume, Islam, 1990 (Reprinted), Penguin Books, pp. 73-74.

The Quran is one of the world's classics which cannot be translated without grave loss. It has a rhythm of peculiar beauty and a cadence that charms the ear. Many Christian Arabs speak of its style with warm admiration, and most Arabists acknowledge its excellence. When it is read aloud or recited it has an almost hypnotic effect that makes the listener indifferent to its sometimes strange syntax and its sometimes, to us, repellent content. It is this quality it possesses of silencing criticism by the sweet music of its language that has given birth to the dogma of its inimitability; indeed it may be affirmed that within the literature of the Arabs, wide and fecund as it is both in poetry and in elevated prose, there is nothing to compare with it.

It may be that you are not educated even enough to comprehend it.