Who Are the Palestinians?

Debmey

Where is there evidence that Mo was a prophet of God?

On the contrary, there are Bible manucsripts in existence today that dates almost 1000 years before Islam was invented. In other words, the claim by Muslims that the Bible was corrupted is a lie. No doctrines or stories were changed.

We do have teh hard evdience,Muslism have none. BTW do you know that the oldest Quran dates only back to the ninth or tenth century, a few hundreds years after Mo died?

If the bible manuscripts in existence today dated almost 1000 years before Islam invented, it could be Al-kitab Injil or an Old Testament which you people do not practise.

Debmey

Those old manuscripts are the same as the Bible today.

What abt the Quran? Why are there no Quran manuscripts dating back to the 7th century? Why are the oldest qurans in the world hidden & not published for xamination?

If those old manuscripts are the same as the Bible today, why must there be old testament & new testament anyway?

Debmey

yu see, yu don't even know what yu are talking abt.

Why are there no qurans dating back to the 7th century? what is there to hide?

Acong

Originally posted by WICKED at 18-3-2004 08:49 AM:
If those old manuscripts are the same as the Bible today, why must there be old testament & new testament anyway?

why hah? why hah? why hah? :hmm:

sonny~~

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 2004-3-13 11:10 PM:
Canaan or The Promised Land is for the SEEDS of Abraham. The Bible does not say it is given specifically for Isaac's lineage. Ishmael's lineage does have a share of The Promised Land. This is God's arrangement.

canaan or the promised land or PALESTINE could be for abraham's children but without un's good grace, israel would not have existed.  PALESTINE is divided so that israel can exist.  thats historical not biblical HARDfact

Later years saw the Romans expelled the Jewish people OUT of the region and renamed it as "alistina" after the Philistines (Sea People) of Aegean origin believed to be from Crete.

one must not forget PALESTINE has changed hand from the canaanites to others includin the jews then lastly to the PALESTINIANS be they muslims or christians or jews

There are still remnants of Jews survived foreign persecution & continued to live alongside Christian Arabs & Muslim Arabs in the region peacefully. Until 1882, the population in Palestine stood at around 141,000 only.

by 1948, PALESTINE is populated by 1,246,000 PALESTINIAN muslims n 507,250 both PALESTINIAN n imported jews

Due to the Holocaust in Europe with an era of hightened anti-Semitism, Jews formed Zionism, a movement that called for a return to their ancestral homeland as answer to continuing persecution. Jewish refugees flooded into Palestine during WW2. Arabs formed the Arab League as counterweight to Zionism. Sadly, from then on, the Arabs turned hostile not only towards incoming Jews but also to the local Jews whom they lived together with all the while.

In 1897 the first Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland, which issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine and the establishment of the World Zionist Organization (WZO). In 1904 the Fourth Zionist Congress decided to establish a national home for Jews in Argentina.  In 1906 the Zionist congress decided the Jewish homeland should be Palestine. why the choice between argentina or palestine n not stickin to palestine is anybodys guess.  anyhow, jews population increased from 12,000 in 1845 to nearly 85,000 by 1914 n 507,250 by 1948.  as such, the world dont expect the PALESTINIANS n arabs to stay docile.  their nationalism is provoked n hence the conflict began between PALESTINIANS/arabs n jews even bfore 1948

In responding to rising Arab violence against Jews, the UN in 1947 voted to divide Mandate Palestine into predominantly Jewish Israel and predominantly Arab Palestine.

When the United Nations (UN) General Assembly approved in 1947 a new partition plan, 749,000 Arabs and 9,250 Jews lived in the territory where the proposed Arab state would be set up, while 497,000 Arabs and 498,000 Jews lived in the part which was to become the Jewish state.  from 'ere one can c theres only a difference of 1,000 between PALESTININS n jews in israel proper.  as predicted, PALESTINIAN israel r raped merciless.

Time & again Israel & Palestine almost reached agreement but never materialised. There is no denying both sides of the fence having black sheeps who sought a continuing bloodshed, one to drive the Israelis into the sea the other sought expansion of Israel. Extremists played a part in jeopardising peace deals.

usa also played vital role in jeoprdizin peace deals.  they call for peace between PALESTINIANS n israelis yet they feed israelis with billions worth of arms to genocide PALESTINIANS n rape PALESTINE

Current Israeli leader Ariel Sharon had made a very very daring and risky move by dismantling Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territory. It is hoped that the Arabs would reciprocate in favour of peace this time around. Both MUST accept the fact that they have to live side-by-side as neighbour. It is time Arafat do something fruitful for his people.

by right, sharon should never have built illegal jewish settlements in the occupied PALESTINIAN territories.  hence his socalled darin n risky move is to deceive the world that hes doin somethin concrete towards peace which is pure bullshit of course.  if the PALESTINIANS were to be at each others throat so be it.  history has proven the arabs r quarrelsome lot.  but israel, usa n the world should not take arabs' quarrelsome to suck PALESTINIANS dry of their land PALESTINE  

peace

[ Last edited by sonny~~ on 18-3-2004 at 02:14 PM ]

Acong

Originally posted by WICKED at 18-3-2004 08:49 AM:
If those old manuscripts are the same as the Bible today, why must there be old testament & new testament anyway?

dumboy, why hah? why hah? why hah? :hmm:

To affirm you that Islam exists  since Abraham & Ishmael moved Mecca & built the Kaaba not only after the birth or the death of  Muhammad, please read this:

The Quran is very clear  that Abraham is the founder of Islam (22:78) and the one who received all the rituals of  Islam.  Salat as we know it today was given to Abraham who taught it to his children and they taught it to their children and so on. Prophet Muhammed was commanded to follow the Religion of Abraham. Had the religion of Abraham not known to him, we would not expect God to command him to follow it.

"Then we inspiredyou (O Muhammed) to follow the religion
of Abraham, monotheism; never was he an idol-worshiper."
16:123

[ Last edited by WICKED on 19-3-2004 at 10:42 AM ]

Debmey

Islam exists,but it is not truth. There is no evidence whatsoever that Abraham and Ishmael built the kaaba. How can they build the kaba together when Ishmael was kicked out of the family before that?

The Quran teaches us that Abraham is the founder of Islam as it is practiced today. All religious practices, including the contact prayer, were given to the Prophet Abraham and passed on to us generation after generation. The majority of Muslims always ask, how can these practices come to us from Abraham and not from Muhammed. They do not trust that God Almighty can preserve His own religious practices (rituals). They do not know that, the Hadith and Sunna books do not have enough information about how to perform Salat, the number of Rakaat (units), or what to say in them.
Not a single time, was the prophet Muhammed reported as telling the people, let me tell you how to perform your Salat prayers, or let me tell you the number of Rakaat in the prayers. The Prophet Muhammed and the people before him were given the ways to pray, which were already handed down from Abraham through generations of believers who kept the prayers intact as God promised. God would not have told Muhammed to follow the religion of Abraham if no one knew or practiced that religion.

well u better read my posting on the evidence that Abraham & Ishmael built the kaaba in religion board. I dont entertain double postings which can distract people attention. u better concerntrate on one!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 18-3-2004 14:09:


canaan or the promised land or PALESTINE could be for abraham's children but without un's good grace, israel would not have existed.  PALESTINE is divided so that israel can exist.  tha ...

I  have read something like if not mistaken that the Israelis are Zionist immigrant. In other words, Palestine is actually already a muslim arab state, a very long time ago.

ariyamusafir

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story.php?sid=20030228221059935

First half of the article:
[quote]
The Story of the Conflict in Palestine - Part I

"In August 1897, Herzl organized the First World Zionist Congress (ZC). The ZC created the Zionist Organization (ZO) to implement the Basle Program, which reflected the ideas expressed in Der Judenstaat .."

By Nizar Sakhnini

(PalestineChronicle.com) - Towards the end of the eighteenth century, while Western Imperialist powers were planning to redraw the geopolitical map of the Middle East to serve their interests in the area, a political Zionist movement was planning a colonial and racist project of its own. Simultaneously, the people of the area were hoping for an independent State to satisfy their aspirations for freedom and economic development.

Herzl's Colonization Project:

In his Der Judenstaat, published in 1896, Herzl called for the establishment of a Jewish State with a Jewish majority as a solution for the barbaric and oppressive racist discriminatory anti-Semitic trends and behavior towards the Jews in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe and Russia.

In August 1897, Herzl organized the First World Zionist Congress (ZC). The ZC created the Zionist Organization (ZO) to implement the Basle Program, which reflected the ideas expressed in Der Judenstaat.

In 1901, Herzl tried in Constantinople to obtain a Charter for rights, duties and privileges of a Jewish-Ottoman Colonization Association for the Settlement of Palestine and Syria. He did not succeed in getting his Charter approved by Turkey. However, in that same year, 1901, the 5th ZC founded the Jewish National Fund (JNF). According to the by-laws of the JNF, acquired land would be considered as "redeemed" land that became inalienable Jewish property and could no longer be sold or leased to non-Jews.

The real intentions and full extent and scope of the colonial settlement that Herzl was after are well reflected in the draft-agreement of The Jewish-Ottoman Land Company (JOLC) " for the purpose of settling Palestine and Syria with Jews " that Herzl lobbied for approval from Sultan Abdulhameed in Istanbul in 1901 and 1902.

According to article I of the draft, the JOLC would be granted "A special right to purchase large estates and small farms and to use them for agriculture, horticulture, forestry, and mining

ariyamusafir

second half of it:

[quote]
Arab and Palestinian Awakening:

Almost simultaneously and in parallel to the emergence of the Zionist political movement, an Arab and Palestinian national movement began its first steps into life. After centuries of Turkish Ottoman rule in Palestine and other parts of the Arab world, the Arabs, especially those living in the Near East, were inspired by the concepts of nationalism coming from Western Europe. Awareness of an Arab identity, as distinct from Turkish identity, emerged as a result. Side by side with the Turkish nationalist movement, an Arab political and cultural nationalist movement emerged led by Syrian, Lebanese, Egyptian, and Palestinian intellectuals advocating Arab rights in the Ottoman Empire. An Arab Nationalist Congress met in Paris in 1913 and demanded autonomy for the Arab provinces of the Ottoman Empire.

The first signs of Palestinian awakening and resistance to the colonial settlement were a direct and spontaneous reaction to the arrogant behavior of the pioneer colonial settlers of the 1st Aliya and their efforts to dispossess and displace the Arab fellahin, which lead to violent confrontations. (9)

Palestine's independence and unity with Syria became the aim of political struggle of the Arab nationalists in Palestine and led to the establishment of two organizations, which were centered in Jerusalem: the Arab Club "al-Nadi al-Arabi" and the Literary Club "al-Muntada al-Adabi".

The Muslim-Christian Association appeared in Jaffa and Jerusalem in 1918 expressing resistance to the combined Imperialist-Zionist enterprise as reflected in the Balfour Declaration. It was composed of traditional representatives of the leading families and religious community and soon became a countrywide network with its headquarters in Jerusalem. (10)

Sykes-Picot, A Re-drawing of the Geo-political Map of the Near East:

WWI provided an opportunity for Britain to realize its ambitions for control and hegemony in the area. For this purpose, "Great" Britain entered into a number of secret and contradictory agreements.

The first of these agreements was made between Britain and Sharif Hussein of Mecca. In ten letters, exchanged in the period July 1915 to March 1916 between Sherif Hussein of Mecca and Sir Henry McMahon, the British High Commissioner in Cairo, Arab help in the war against the Turks was offered in return for British support of an independent Arab state. As agreed, an Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire, led by Sherif Hussein and his son Emir Faisal and the Arab nationalists in Syria, Lebanon and Palestine, started in June 1916.

The second agreement was concluded on 16 May 1916 between Great Britain, France, and Russia, which dealt with the dismemberment of the Asiatic portions of the Ottoman Empire. As a result of the Communist Revolution in 1917, Russia was out and the agreement became worthless. Nevertheless, a part of the agreement affecting the Arab provinces, which was negotiated between Sir Mark Sykes for Britain and M. Georges Picot for France, generally known as the Sykes-Picot agreement, strongly influenced the ultimate disposal of these territories despite Russian defection.

According to the terms of the agreement, France obtains the coastal strip of Syria, while Great Britain would obtain the southern part of Mesopotamia with Baghdad, and stipulates for herself in Syria the ports of Haifa and Akka [Acre]. The zone between the French and British territories forms a confederation of Arab States, or one independent Arab State, in which the zones of influence are determined at the same time. (11)

At the end of the War, France was granted mandate over Syria and Lebanon. Britain was granted mandate over Palestine, which incorporated the Balfour Declaration disregarding the King-Crane Commission reports to the Peace Conference in August 1919, which recommended that the Zionist program to establish a Jewish State in Palestine be abandoned, as it would trespass too gravely upon the rights of the Palestinian people. Emir Faisal was appointed as King of Iraq and his brother, Emir Abdullah, was appointed as Emir of Transjordan (east of the River Jordan) under British auspices. Both had nominal independence under full British control. Hijaz was later overrun by Ibn Saud and became part of the Saudi Arabia Kingdom and Sherif Hussein was exiled to Amman. He was buried in Jerusalem when he died later on. Hopes for an independent Arab state were dashed and Arab nationalists started a localized struggle against French and British hegemony disguised under the invented mandate system to give it the semblance of international legitimacy.

The Balfour Declaration, which was made on 2 November 1917, represented the third agreement that Britain concluded during WWI to serve its imperialist designs.

Herzl's offer in Der Judenstaat to "form a portion of the rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilisation as opposed to barbarism" was renewed by the ZO through Chaim Weizmann who promised to cooperate with "Great Britain" for the mutual benefit of both parties. This agreement for the mutual benefit of both parties was reflected in the Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917.

At the start of his activities to obtain the support of Britain for the Zionist enterprise in Palestine, Weizmann got acquainted with C. P. Scott, the editor of the Manchester Guardian. On 12 November 1914, Weizman wrote a letter to Scott stating, "卻hould Palestine fall within the British sphere of influence, and should Britain encourage a Jewish settlement there, as a British dependency, we could have in twenty to thirty years a million Jews out there, perhaps more. They would develop the country, bring back civilization to it and form a very effective guard for the Suez Canal". In this way, Herzl's offer in Der Judenstaat was put into action through Weizmann. Herbert Samuel made a similar proposal. Samuel was an Anglo-Jewish of the British civil service who was later appointed as the first High Commissioner for Palestine. He sent a memorandum in early 1915 headed "The Future of Palestine" to H. Asquith, then British PM. In his diary on 28 January 1915 Asquith wrote that Samuel had "argued at considerable length and with some vehemence in favor of the British annexation of Palestine

ariyamusafir

third part of it:

[quote]
The British Mandate in Palestine

On 9 December 1917, Ottoman forces in Jerusalem surrendered to the allied forces led by General Allenby and a British military administration was established in Palestine.

American President, Wilson, declared in January 1918,"The Turkish portions of the present Ottoman Empire should be assured a secure sovereignty, but the other nationalities that are under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development

Debmey

Thanks for all the cut and pastes, but you still have not answered the questions  concerning the identity of Palestinians.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 19-3-2004 20:32:
Thanks for all the cut and pastes, but you still have not answered the questions  concerning the identity of Palestinians.

If you had read the cut and paste that I have done, you surely would have known about it haven't you? Tell me truthfully, have you ever read all the articles, all the cut and paste I did??? Please answer that question. Thank you.

Debmey

My question to you is, did you read the first post on this thread? Why are the points raised not answered?

sonny~~

n me HARDfacts for u is PALESTINE is for PALESTINIANS while israel is for hapless pious terrorist cum rapist jews/israelis/zionists.  simple  

peace

hi Wicked,

Adm_Cheng_Ho im not sure if you are a muslim..but i think you are not (please correct me if im wrong)

I'm not Muslim. I'm Confucian Malaysian Chinese.

hagar was from arab decendant & sarah was a Jewish

I don't really understand this statement. If Jews lineage started from Isaac then how did it precede Isaac for Sarah is of Jewish descendent? Moreover, Egyptians are Black Africans. So, what I'm lacking here is that Hagar was of Egyptian Arab race. By the same token, how did Hagar recognised as Arab if the lineage of Arabs comes from Ishmael and Hagar preceded Ishmael? At that time, Arabs are tribes in Arabian peninsula.

Anyway, in my opinion, Canaan is for the SEEDS of Abraham.