Can Asia unite?

are telling me that Debmey,  truth.8 or seraphim or mat'roket are in the same boat as me and kennkid ? that they are not ASIAN because they are christians and kennkid & me are  muslims unless if they are atheist or buddist or hindu or whatever religions begins from asean countries not arab or jerusalem and all the judgmental based from their religion not their race?

[ Last edited by WICKED on 21-5-2004 at 04:29 PM ]

or maybe im in a different boat than them as im not truly asian based from my race?

meanwhile you + ariya + Acong are in the same boat with  ASIAN sign or symbol or flag because your race and your religion (eg. buddha & Hindu)  comes from ASIA?

and let me put it this way, kennkid + salman + fuzzman + Debmey + Mat'Roket + Seraphim are in the same boat. they are muslims and christians mixed together in the same boat but they are not considered as ASIAN eventhough you know they are Malay, Chinese & native ppl from Asia?

well ...this is interesting..is that what you really mean? define it specifically, please!

[ Last edited by WICKED on 21-5-2004 at 04:41 PM ]

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-5-21 03:01 PM:
Why not? Christianity is an Asian religion.

I like to ask yu abt your father.Did he convert becos he wanted to marry ur moma?

The only thing 'Asian' about Christianity was Paul's jewishness. 98 % is Greek & Roman. Christianity is not the religion of Jesus. Its a deviation from Jesus' religion, brought to Europe for political expansion. The earlier followers of Jesus were persecuted because of their objection to paul's invention & the injection of Greek & Roman pagan culture & mythology, including the trinity concept & later the anglo saxon myths. So, Christianity is not Asian. How can an extension of European mythology be Asian?

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 21-5-2004 at 06:46 PM ]

Debmey

Originally posted by WICKED at 2004-5-21 03:14 PM:


I've already given my answer..im not truly asian and people sometimes address me pan-asian. I want to ask you something why most pure asians are so keen to adapt western culture? Dont you have  ...

We adopt whatever is good and the west does have a lot of good we can learn from. Not everything Asian or part of the culture is the best.
W/o the western model of business, Asia would not have grown at all.

At the same time, I fully a Chinese, I speak Chinese good and I know the culture well.

In other words, take teh meat, avoid teh bones.That is teh best policy.

John Lennon

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2004-5-21 01:30 PM:
United Asian is not complex thing as you imagine it. There have been communcation and information sharing between China, India and all the other smaller ethnic groups in Asia for hundreds of years before Islam came around.

The spreading of Hindusm and Buddhism to China and Japan peacefully is one of those proves of communication. We (Asians) did all this without resorting to fight and push our views down on anyone's throat. Which is why Indians and Chinese still living in this country peacefully and in the world (despite of some problems due to politics).

"Asian Pride" is for ALL Asians ... and I don't see why each and everyone of Asians (Indian, Chinese, Thais etc) don't need to pride themselves to be able to live in harmony and able to contribute to each others for generation.

Maybe it's a bit of my mistake of pointing out some bad apples and coming close to generalisation. You're right about the religious tolerence in Asia as I recalled a former Taoist who was intrigued about a picture where a Confucian, Buddhist and Taoist were walking side-by-side exchanging dialogue. Abrahamic religions were based on "Follow Me or perish" dogma that has lead to it's followers mutilating themselves and others throughout history.

On the contrary, these Eastern teachings are devoid of egoistical Deity and criticism of other religions

I don't know which cave you crawl out from but in Asia, immoral acts and culture is something most people dislike and teach others to avoid. What nonsense is that you telling us to IGNORE immoral acts just because it belongs to someone else. If you want to wash your dirty laundry, do it in your own bathroom.

Morality isn't as easily defined as your black and white perception. Like you said, if you want to wash your own dirty laundry, do it in your own bathroom. For your case, you took a peek at somebody and didn't like what you saw!

Of course, if you're talking about how we're corrupted by mass media of so-called Western immorality, maybe in your point, you're right.

But "Western immorality" is a pandora's box. We asians can't keep our hands out from it when it was opened.

So, how do you choose? By shoving our beliefs down their (Westerner's) throats or just ignore them, let them rot in their own puddle of filth and continue to stick to our asian values then? Why not?

If asians succumb to so-called "Western values" and forget their roots, it is THEIR own bloody fault!


Save that crap to compare with the Europeans who were living in Dark Ages at that time. We are talking about Asia here.

China and India already developed and use in daily lives complex Astronogical system even before Jesus was born to support its agriculture and social situations (like festival and so on).

Islamic Mathematics and Astronomy has been adopted into modern science ever since. Of course as far as I know India and China already had use of Mathematics and such, but was it adopted by the West?:stp: Algebra and algorithm was adopted from Arabic words. To make you happy, Al-Khwarizmi, a famous Mathematician, adopted the Hindu number zero which was then introduced to the Europeans. You sure know why algorithm is used in IT fileds, right?

India's medicine (Ayurvedic) and China's medicine (based on the text by the Yellow Emperor) were one of the best even before Jesus were born and India's Ayurvedic is STILL considered to be the best holistic approach in the world today. And that's not even including Yoga which appeared 5,000 years ago.

Sorry to insult you, but general population prefers the field of medicine populized by Ibn Sina. =P And why is ayurvedia is the BEST holistic approach when I hear acupunture is more popular?

So save your "Islam contributed something" to the one who doesn't know History.

Meaning you?!:stp:

It's really weird about your hatred on Islam. Just because their followers made up the most people died in the name of religion alongside Christianity doesn't make them "useless".

rami_ayyash

Why?

DISPUTES BETWEEN COUNTRIES
1) North Korea vs South Korea
2) China vs Taiwan
3) India vs Pakistan

POLITICAL DIFFERENCES
1) Democracy - Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Cambodia, India, Indonesia, Philippines. Mongolia
2) Communism - China, Vietnam, North Korea
3) Dictatorship - Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Yemen, Oman, Kuwait, Syria, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Myanmar, Maldives, Bhutan
4) Semi Dictatorship - Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore, Laos, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Iraq etc

CONFUSED NATIONS
1) Turkey - Asia or Europe?
2) Israel - Asia or Europe?
3) Russia - Asia or Europe
4) Egypt - Asia or Africa?
5) Azerbaijan - Asia or Europe
6) Timor L'este - Asia or Oceania

INSURGENCIES
1) China - Tibet, Xinjiang
2) India - Kashmir
3) Myanmar - Arakan, Kachin, Karen
4) Philippines - Bangsamoro
5) Indonesia - Aceh, Irian Jaya, Maluku
6) Thailand - Pattani
7) Sri Lanka - Tamils

RELIGIONS
1) Islam
2) Christianity
3) Judaism
4) Hinduism
5) Atheism
6) Buddhism

NO COMMON GROUNDS
1) Physical Appearances - Caucasians as Turks, Semites as Arabs, Mongoloids as Japanese, Aryans as Hindis, Dravidians as Tamils, Malayics as Malays, etc
2) Languages - 1,000+
3) Cultures
4) Economics
5) Freedoms

:stp:

Thanks Rami...for shattering my fantasy of a Asia Union...

Turkey is in negotiations to join the EU...no timeline for its membership though.

Thank you rami for such a comprehensive list of points to ponder. I also remember watching CNA we have so many currencies in Asia to combine and it takes time. Moreover, forming a new economic bloc is not even showing signs of materializing. Each time failed.

We do have a long way to go...

Sephiroth

by WICKED

are telling me that Debmey,  truth.8 or seraphim or mat'roket are in the same boat as me and kennkid ? that they are not ASIAN because they are christians and kennkid & me are  muslims unless if they are atheist or buddist or hindu or whatever religions begins from asean countries not arab or jerusalem and all the judgmental based from their religion not their race?

Being Asian, or American or European is not about Religion but IDENTITY. One cannot have two identities.

One cannot say I'm a Chinese and I'm a Christian at same time because both are different. One cannot say I'm a Malay and I'm a Muslims at the same time. Identity is like an IC ... you can only have ONE citizenship in there.


meanwhile you + ariya + Acong are in the same boat with  ASIAN sign or symbol or flag because your race and your religion (eg. buddha & Hindu)  comes from ASIA?

I really don't care where Ariya or anyone else belongs because I don't know personally. They can say there are Buddhist (I doubt Acong is) and I just give them the benefit of the doubt since I never actually met them.

and let me put it this way, kennkid + salman + fuzzman + Debmey + Mat'Roket + Seraphim are in the same boat. they are muslims and christians mixed together in the same boat but they are not considered as ASIAN eventhough you know they are Malay, Chinese & native ppl from Asia?

Do they follow the beliefs and lifestyles of Asians (whether one is Hindu, Buddhist or a Taoist)? If they do, then they are Asians, otherwise, they have chosen a different Identity for themselves.

      

by Debmey

At the same time, I fully a Chinese, I speak Chinese good and I know the culture well.  

You know the culture but you do not practise it. There is a different. Anyone can claim to know a culture without practising it, same way one claim to know about Japanese culture but that will not make him a Japanese.


by John Lennon

Maybe it's a bit of my mistake of pointing out some bad apples and coming close to generalisation. You're right about the religious tolerence in Asia as I recalled a former Taoist who was intrigued about a picture where a Confucian, Buddhist and Taoist were walking side-by-side exchanging dialogue. Abrahamic religions were based on "Follow Me or perish" dogma that has lead to it's followers mutilating themselves and others throughout history.

Tolerance have been backbone of Asian religions. Whether its Hindusm, Buddhism or Taoism, they all can agree that fighting in name of God is STUPID as one can get.

That is why various religions and beliefs (some atheism-like ones like Buddhism) still managed to grow in peace in among others who have different belief in them.

Know the common bonds you share and keep the difference to yourself is common policy. Another important policy with Asian religions and beliefs is PRACTISE what you preach before preach it to others.

On the contrary, these Eastern teachings are devoid of egoistical Deity and criticism of other religions

There is a simple explaination for that. You see ... Asians know that no matter how much one is dedicate oneself to their practise, one cannot prove whether God exists or not. So what is the good of religion then? Simply to promote a better life. Which is why even Buddha said nothing when one asked whether God existed and have taught his followers how to live their life in a simple manner. Because goal of all religion is living their lives properly.

But in Abrahamic religion, it is different ... one must believe in a God (one form or another) without proof. In Christianity, one must believe tha Jesus saved them and in Al Quran, one must believe in Allah. Only with this two main "pillars", will they able to become a Christian and Muslim.

But many people couldn't simply believe in something they cannot comprehend. They could say "Fine, I believe in Jesus or Allah for the sake of it" and continue on but deep in them, the question whether it is true or false will always exists. And in some people who do not want to ponder the answer because they are too lazy, looking at those who have other beliefs and live a better lives than them, this people attend to lash out in what they see as a mockery of their faith. In another word, we are mocking their laziness to think and they attacking back.

Morality isn't as easily defined as your black and white perception. Like you said, if you want to wash your own dirty laundry, do it in your own bathroom. For your case, you took a peek at somebody and didn't like what you saw!

WHY could I want to peek into someone else's bathroom when my own requires cleaning? There is no such thing as quicky clean when comes to one's bathroom (the heart in this situation).

Let me rephase that. Why should I judge you when I'm myself are viable to be judged? Isn't it better for me to concentrate in keeping myself clean and live my life properly than to worry what you going to do?

Morality is not what you perceive to others, it is what you perceive to yourself. If you are immoral yourself, then who gave you the right to say others are immoral?

Of course, if you're talking about how we're corrupted by mass media of so-called Western immorality, maybe in your point, you're right.  

But "Western immorality" is a pandora's box. We asians can't keep our hands out from it when it was opened.

Nonsense ... no one can corrupt you if you are not corrupted to begin with.
In Dharma Yoga in Gita, it is said that if you keep your heart from wandering even when you in a place of immoral, then NOTHING can touch you.

I give you an example. A person who wonders about sexual attraction will easily be attracted to beautiful ladies (or men, which ever one desires) and end up doing something he probably regret. Why? Did the young lady become like a Succubus and corrupted him? No, it is because his own desires corrupted him.

That doesn't mean one have to lie about his own desires, you simply have to learn to either release it in a control manner or accumulate stronger spiritual strenght to combat those desires (whichever appropriate). Choose which is the lesser evil and stick with it.

So, how do you choose? By shoving our beliefs down their (Westerner's) throats or just ignore them, let them rot in their own puddle of filth and continue to stick to our asian values then? Why not?

Nope ... if we did that, then we will not be any different than Abrahamic religion followers. Asian religions is not based on shoving anything down into someone's throat and damning them when they refuse to swallow.

Let them choose which is right for them themselves. Let them choose which they consider "Lesser Evil" according to their definations.

If asians succumb to so-called "Western values" and forget their roots, it is THEIR own bloody fault!

Very true ... which is why parents should start teaching them about this values at home. We cannot blame anyone else if one's children is corrupted.

Sorry to insult you, but general population prefers the field of medicine populized by Ibn Sina. =P And why is ayurvedia is the BEST holistic approach when I hear acupunture is more popular?

Not everyone can perform Acupunture and not everyone very happy about sticking a needle into your body. Ayurvedia on the other hand, is based on various methods of treatments which you can choose from, like Yoga, Oil Massage, food treatment, and so on. Sticking a needle is not the only option one has.

And IF Ibn Sina is the one popularize medicine, then WHY are doctors nowadays taking an oath named after a pagan doctor? :hmm:

Medicine have been used for thousands of years, Ibn Sina maybe have brought a new defination to it but others already ahead of him in other parts of the world.

It's really weird about your hatred on Islam. Just because their followers made up the most people died in the name of religion alongside Christianity doesn't make them "useless".

I don't hate Islam, I hate Muslims. They say Islam is peaceful but live like animals. Whether they are liars or Islam is wrong ... which is it?

Yes, those who dies for sake of their religions ARE USELESS. Do you know why? Because they promote nothing but bad name for their religions. There are better ways to promote their religions than fighting.

Take Buddhism for example ... it is known as the most peaceful religion in the world and Buddhist did NOTHING other than to live in Peace with others.

DARSITA

Originally posted by rami_ayyash at 21-5-04 11:35 AM:
Why?

DISPUTES BETWEEN COUNTRIES
1) North Korea vs South Korea
2) China vs Taiwan
3) India vs Pakistan

POLITICAL DIFFERENCES
1) Democracy - Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Cambodia,  ...

Such a volume must be delivered slowly, lest the receiving container burst.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 21-5-2004 08:54:
by ariyamusafir

Wait a minute, Most of Arab adalah di benua Asia and Palestine adalah di benua Asia thus the origin of Christian and Islam adalah dari Asia.

Cuba tunjjukan persamaan2 ...

Most of Arab soil is in Asia

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 21-5-2004 12:04:
by WICKED

You really want to talk about culture & heritage? Are you sure you really know what you are talking about? Are you very knowlegable about Asian cultures?  

Al I knowledg ...

Chinese many their marriages ceremony also adopt Western style already but that does not make them less Asian. All, I want to say for now to you sephiroth is that Culture and Heritage does not make one not an Asian. Is like your father might be person "A" no matter how much you hate him or you like him also the fact still remains that he is your father. Same here. Asia does not have a particular culture but what it has is the culture of the many Various dIFFERENT Races and people which makes it up.

You have in my personal opinion, misunderstood the meaning of it. Wether a person is an Asian or not, it is not judge by its religion or culture. You have misunderstood many a great deal. What is Asia? Asia is a continental location or place. What is Asians?? Asians are the many people who is the resdent or born and lve in Asia, with their roots from Asia. Do you know that the non-Southern Indian, mostly of Northern Indian are actualy  from Europe side. There are five types of people and the northern Indians, those white fair skin are actually their roots are from Europe. If you study civilisation, these Aryan people came from Europe into India long time ago and start calling themselves Indian. The Caste Sytem or Sistem Kasta is actually, if not mistaken, a way to differentiate between the original Indian and their own which they regard as higher class people. That is what I have been thought by my lecturer then.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by John Lennon at 21-5-2004 13:13:
This topic strayed into a Muslim bashing topic, as the usua with most topicsl.;)

A united asian is a complext thing. First, we should get rid of our egoistic version of "Asian Pride" a ...

:setuju: True. In fact the Pythogaras Theroem was from the Arabs and many more. Many math theories are developed by the Arabs, then the Europeans came study it and took it as their own.

What is good from the west we can take it and accept it but what is bad such as immoral act, not filial towards ones parents and premaritial sex we should all avoid and refrain from it.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 23-5-2004 at 12:37 PM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 21-5-2004 13:20:
I don't think we have much culture to learn from arabs.

You have much to learn from them. Pythogaras theorm and many more so called "developed by the west" is actually from Arab.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 21-5-2004 13:34:
if yu don't adopt english culture, what are yu doing writing in english?

We Malaysians are great in the sense most of us know 3 language and not just two. We Malaysians should be proud of ourselves .

sonny~~

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 2004-5-17 10:38 PM:
In order to stop the harm and the injustice done by the US and its allies towards many of the poorer nations who are Asians, Asia must unite with powers such as China and Japan, together with the Arabs, must take a more proactive stand and participate in defending the welfare of fellow Asians. We as Asians in order for us to unite must first put aside all our quarrels and start to look at the positive side. We must get to know, and respect the many religions and cultures in Asia so as to destroy whatever hate and enmity due to misunderstandings.

sounds noble but it will never materalize.  never.  why?  simple

singapore is mousy.
malaysia is barkin dog.
indonesia is poor n corrupt.
thailand, the phillipines, south korea r superdonkey bush's lapdogs.
china is poverty bear.
japan n saudi arabia r insignificantly wealthy, superdonkey bush's lapdogs too.
other arab nations fight cats n dogs with each other all time; theyre weak.
no nation is outstandin. none.

in meantime, un is toothless, oic is impotent, nan is nobody, arab league fights cats n dogs

as such no way asia gonna complement much less compete with the west.  no offence meant  

peace

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 21-5-2004 13:46:
by WICKED

I noticed in every statement you've made you only mentioned only INDIAN & CHINESE? What about MALAY Seph???

I hope you are not so prejudice towards the Malay as malay commun ...

Malays are all the original inhabitants from the Kepulaun Melayu which ranges to up to Taiwan. In another words, original Taiwanese are malays. Indons are malays. The Thais and The Vietnamese too are malays. Dayak, Dusun Iban, Philipinos al are malays. According to historian research, there are 5 types of humans. Mongolian/Chinese, Indians, Causcasian(including those northern Indians), Malays and Those like the red Indians. Please take note that I do not give exact term for the 5 types but the malay is accurate.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 21-5-2004 13:58:
by WICKED

are you saying MALAY and MUSLIM must be separated?

Is all Malays are Muslims? Are all Muslims Malays? What makes a person Muslims and what makes him Malay? Define all this  ...

As I have said, it is not the way you practise or live your life which determines if you are an Asian or not but is determined by Geographical type as I have put forward what is Asia and what is Asian so Sephiroth many of your these arguments that they are not Asian just because their practises are different is not valid and very wrong way or arguing. There are ASIAN MUSLIM< AND NON_ASIAN MUSLIMS same as for Buddhist hindus and other religion. An American white practises Buddhism and can be called a Buddhist but can he be called an Asian? NO!!!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 21-5-2004 14:20:
by WICKED

I dont think you can provide me with the answer that is why you try to beat around the bush!  

You are the one who is running out of ideas to defend yourself. I know where I ...

They are not new race. Their original race is still there.

Seraphim

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 23-5-2004 12:39 PM:


sounds noble but it will never materalize.  never.  why?  simple

singapore is mousy.
malaysia is barkin dog.
indonesia is poor n corrupt.
thailand, the phillipines, south korea r  ...

Damn it...it sounded so true:lol