Can Asia unite?

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Debmey at 21-5-2004 15:01:
Why not? Christianity is an Asian religion.

I like to ask yu abt your father.Did he convert becos he wanted to marry ur moma?

Islam is also an Asian religion. Also, like it or not, you Debmey is also an Asian but we regard you as a no good sian, and undesirable to Asian Unification.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by WICKED at 21-5-2004 15:14:


I've already given my answer..im not truly asian and people sometimes address me pan-asian. I want to ask you something why most pure asians are so keen to adapt western culture? Dont you have  ...

You have Asian blood running in you and you are one of us!!!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 21-5-2004 16:15:
by WICKED

no matter what races you have in the country,  either your  decendants originally from india or china or indonesia, to form a country each one of you have to live in harmony and di ...

Sephiroth, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!! You got all the things wrong. First of all, It is only in Malaysia where the Malaysa which are muslims must be a muslim. In Indonesia, there are many Christian Malays. In fact, there are many Iban who is under Malay race are actually Christians.. A Malay are actuall the ORIGINAL inhabitants of the Kepulauan Melayu that spread up to Taiwan.

It doesn't matter how you live your life and what is your cultural practises or whatsoever. Times change and culture and pratices changes. Just as the many people like the Chinese and Indians now wears T-shirts and Long Sleeve shirts instead of their original Cheongsam, Samfu, etc is a change in cultural practises. That doesn't mean that they are non-Asian. Assume, in the future, all past culture is forgotten and a new culture immerge, that still doesn't make those new ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF ASIAN CONTINENT LIVING IN ASIA not Asian!!!!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by WinterNights at 22-5-2004 04:21:
Thanks Rami...for shattering my fantasy of a Asia Union...

Turkey is in negotiations to join the EU...no timeline for its membership though.

Asia still can be unified if we are willing to take the initiatif to learn and understand the many religion and culture in Asia, if we learn to respect those which differ from our own way and beliefs, if we are willing to live and let live, if we are williong to give and take, don't care you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or not, we all CAN BE UNITED and UNIFIED!!!!!!

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 22-5-2004 09:12:
by WICKED

are telling me that Debmey,  truth.8 or seraphim or mat'roket are in the same boat as me and kennkid ? that they are not ASIAN because they are christians and kennkid & me are  ...

Identity??? Religion and racial Identity are different and cannot be said as be able to mix. Thus one can be an Asian Muslim or a European Muslim or an American Muslim or an Australian Muslim or a Chinese Muslim and also same as Christians, Buddhist and Hindus.

Seraphim

Originally posted by ariyamusafir at 23-5-2004 01:01 PM:


Asia still can be unified if we are willing to take the initiatif to learn and understand the many religion and culture in Asia, if we learn to respect those which differ from our own way and b ...

Too good to be true....Like a Utopian dream:lol

kid

I dont like the idea of the Asian unity if the unity serve hidden interest of some group or community (like EURO), but if the unity serve the interest of all members it is very good, but since each members have their own interest this idea seems impossible, unless a drastic changing in world situation, say a new world war between Asian and US allies...who knows.

Originally posted by kid at 2004-5-24 01:49 AM:
I dont like the idea of the Asian unity if the unity serve hidden interest of some group or community (like EURO), but if the unity serve the interest of all members it is very good, but since each ...

A plan on that scale of implementation involves a lot of technicalities. There WILL be problems to solve and not just by the idea of having an Asia Union. Take the European Union for example, its formation and beginning started with the Treaty establishing the European Community and that was way back in 1972 and today, the amount of legal literature on the stupid thing is beyond anyone's imagination.

Furthermore, there are still many issues that are unresolved and although it seems like 'what's the point of doing it then?', there is at least a direction that the institution is taking and problems are being solved along the way. It is quite impossible to think of something infallible to begin with, proper measures and planning could resolve the immediate and significant problems while other emerging problems could be solved along the way.

However, Europe is by itself quite advanced and its members are sufficiently developed and thus policies are easier to carry out. In Asia, there are still political instabilities, here and there, and I think the literacy rate has yet to achieve a satisfactory level. Nevertheless, the idea of a Asia Union should not be discarded just like that. This generation could formulate the principles and framework so that the next generation can build upon those foundations and commence a practical version of it.

rami_ayyash

If the Arabs who shared the common language, habits and cultures cant be united - ASIA? Non Europeans are so obsessed with their own groups - ASIAN UNION is an UNIMAGINABLE DREAM!

Originally posted by rami_ayyash at 2004-5-24 04:54 AM:
If the Arabs who shared the common language, habits and cultures cant be united - ASIA? Non Europeans are so obsessed with their own groups - ASIAN UNION is an UNIMAGINABLE DREAM!

Wrong!

Firstly, by saying that since Arabs can't so we can't is such a pessimistic view. Languages/habits/cultures are tools to help foster a bond among people but they are not definitive! Diversity can play its own role in fostering a closer bond between people.

What makes Asia(especially SEA) a booming potential? Awareness in education, health and a upcoming economy all contributes towards this potential. What can be explained about the Arabs' situation??

You tell me that...I was in Egypt a couple months back(Cairo and Sharm El-Sheikh) and goodness, being in Egypt is like being teleported back to the 14th century. Living conditions, basic facilities, public order, standard of living etc etc are so poor. Yet, many Arab leaders can afford to have posh summits, luxury cars and palaces...

Education and governments' responsibilities are essential in making their countries more efficient. Right now, everyone is merely content with their life styles(please correct me if I am wrong); their idea of survival is merely to earn enough to support their family...again, contrast this with SEA. Chinese families, even if parents are farmers or fishmongers, they will encourage their children to study hard and work hard to enable a comfortable living in the future.

Arab leaders and royalties...they are content with what they have. Children within the royal circle are born in the midst of luxury. Their prerogative is undisturbed and their conditioning is such that they have the 'right' to be what they are and enjoy what they have. The citizen are culturally taught to respect(and due to lack of higher education and proper awareness) do not argue on this point.

There are so many differing points between the Arab world and Asia!

And you know what? When they are not bothered by all these essentials, it comes to a point where people start to take advantage of them and only then, will they start to shout, "Oh, everyone is abusing us! Violation to our rights! Oh! Insult to Islam..blah blah blah"

[ Last edited by WinterNights on 24-5-2004 at 08:31 AM ]

Sephiroth

by ariyamusafir

Chinese many their marriages ceremony also adopt Western style already but that does not make them less Asian.

How do you know? How many Chinese weddings to you attend to. In Chinese, no matter what place you married to (whether it is in Church, chapel or temple or even at home), the newly married Chinese Couple MUST kowtow (bow) to their family shrine and offer tea to their parents (usually the husband's parents). Any change in this and it is disrespect and the elders may consider you not married.

All, I want to say for now to you sephiroth is that Culture and Heritage does not make one not an Asian. Is like your father might be person "A" no matter how much you hate him or you like him also the fact still remains that he is your father. Same here. Asia does not have a particular culture but what it has is the culture of the many Various dIFFERENT Races and people which makes it up .  

Nonsense ... what do you mean that Culture and Heritage doesn't make one Asian? Only cultureless people like you could say such thing. ;)

And yes, I agree that Asian have many cultures which makes it unique. What I disagree is that Muslim culture is anywhere part of Asian culture. There is no similarities between Muslims and any race in Asian (all the way to India) which means that Muslims are not Asians.

You have in my personal opinion, misunderstood the meaning of it. Wether a person is an Asian or not, it is not judge by its religion or culture. You have misunderstood many a great deal. What is Asia? Asia is a continental location or place. What is Asians?? Asians are the many people who is the resdent or born and lve in Asia, with their roots from Asia. Do you know that the non-Southern Indian, mostly of Northern Indian are actualy  from Europe side. There are five types of people and the northern Indians, those white fair skin are actually their roots are from Europe. If you study civilisation, these Aryan people came from Europe into India long time ago and start calling themselves Indian. The Caste Sytem or Sistem Kasta is actually, if not mistaken, a way to differentiate between the original Indian and their own which they regard as higher class people. That is what I have been thought by my lecturer then.

Don't talk about Caste system IF you don't know anything about it and have to rely in your lecturer for information. ;) Such act doesn't make you look any smarter.

For your information, Caste System is not unique to India alone, China had it, Japanese still has it now (but not as extend as Caste in India). Caste is simply organization of a society so ALL the members of the society does something for the benefit of the community.

And Yes, people who are in India, China, IndoChina and South East Asia now are from Africa (not Europe). According to  "Out of Africa" Theory, the people who stay back in Africa are the parents of Muslims and Africans, while who who left Africa (250,000 years ago) and follow the games to the west are parents of Asian people. Even so they may have the same root, but that is at the very beginning and as Asian grow, they have cut all ties with Africans in term of culture, heritage and even history.


I hope you are not so prejudice towards the Malay as malay commun ...   

My argument here is that Muslims are not part of this culture and heritage, I never said anything about Malays (Bumiputeras).

Malays are all the original inhabitants from the Kepulaun Melayu which ranges to up to Taiwan. In another words, original Taiwanese are malays. Indons are malays. The Thais and The Vietnamese too are malays. Dayak, Dusun Iban, Philipinos al are malays. According to historian research, there are 5 types of humans. Mongolian/Chinese, Indians, Causcasian(including those northern Indians), Malays and Those like the red Indians. Please take note that I do not give exact term for the 5 types but the malay is accurate.

Malays are Bumiputeras of this region, MUSLIMS are not. The different between both of them lies in their culture, heritage and their beliefs.

You seems to be in delusion that Malays are Muslims ... they are not. That is why we see so many separation between old traditions in Malay society like "Majlis Bersanding", "Majlis Cukur rambut" (of the new born baby) and so many more which comes from various traditions like Indian, Javaness and so on.

As I have said, it is not the way you practise or live your life which determines if you are an Asian or not but is determined by Geographical type as I have put forward what is Asia and what is Asian so Sephiroth many of your these arguments that they are not Asian just because their practises are different is not valid and very wrong way or arguing. There are ASIAN MUSLIM< AND NON_ASIAN MUSLIMS same as for Buddhist hindus and other religion. An American white practises Buddhism and can be called a Buddhist but can he be called an Asian? NO!!!

Again ... that is an excuse made by cultureless people like you.
Look at Chinese (non-Christians) in Malaysia ... they still burn papers and "donate" offerings to the spirits every years, they still have tanglungs, kowtowing the Shrine upon wedding, and so much more. THAT IS ASIAN CULTURE WHICH SHOW THEY ARE CHINESE AND DESCENDED FROM PEOPLE FROM CHINA.

Look at Indians ... they still emphasize their children to learn Tamil languages, still teach things like singing religious songs, dancing dan some even practise Indian marital arts. THAT IS ASIAN CULTURE WHICH SHOWS THEY ARE INDIANS AND DESCENDED FROM PEOPLE FROM INDIA.

Culture and heritage is based on Relgion which follows by a society. You discard a culture and follow a religion, it is same like throwing away an engine but still attempting to push the car.

Take a look at "Travel and Sport" column in this forum and you will see so many people talking about Martial arts, especially Muslims when comes to Silat. Why do you think they tries so hard to learn Silat? Because they want to learn to fight and defend themselves? NO, because it their mind, it is a CULTURE (Seni) which endorsed/accepted by Islam and they want to have a culture in them.

They are not new race. Their original race is still there.

Don't claim it ... prove it.

You have Asian blood running in you and you are one of us!!!

Bullshit ... Whether you are one of us or not is yet to be determined. Your place is in Arab if you are a Muslim. And where I belong to is none of your business.

Sephiroth, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!! You got all the things wrong. First of all, It is only in Malaysia where the Malaysa which are muslims must be a muslim. In Indonesia, there are many Christian Malays. In fact, there are many Iban who is under Malay race are actually Christians.. A Malay are actuall the ORIGINAL inhabitants of the Kepulauan Melayu that spread up to Taiwan.

Is there a Malay Hindu? How many do you know? Is there a Malay Buddhist? A Malay Taoist?

Muslims and Christians can be Malays or Chinese but they can NEVER be Chinese or Malays. Malays are BUMIPUTERAs, Muslims (and Christans) are FOREIGNERS.

It doesn't matter how you live your life and what is your cultural practises or whatsoever. Times change and culture and pratices changes. Just as the many people like the Chinese and Indians now wears T-shirts and Long Sleeve shirts instead of their original Cheongsam, Samfu, etc is a change in cultural practises. That doesn't mean that they are non-Asian. Assume, in the future, all past culture is forgotten and a new culture immerge, that still doesn't make those new ORIGINAL INHABITANTS OF ASIAN CONTINENT LIVING IN ASIA not Asian!!!!

Hmph ... WRONG. This is very different with Muslims. In Islam, no matter what race you are, You MUST cover your body if you are a female and you NEED wear a songkok (especially to Masjid). This to show that you are a Muslim.

When old culture vanishes, a Race WILL DIE. You maybe a Chinese or an Indian but if you do not know your own culture, YOU ARE NOTHING.


Identity??? Religion and racial Identity are different and cannot be said as be able to mix. Thus one can be an Asian Muslim or a European Muslim or an American Muslim or an Australian Muslim or a Chinese Muslim and also same as Christians, Buddhist and Hindus.

Save that crap for Abrahamic religions ... don't mix it with Buddhism and Hindusm. What do you know about them?

An American can be a Hindu or a Buddhist by following a religion, but he will never be an Asian nor his practise will be equal to that of an Asian. Do you know why? Because he is brought up by different culture and heritage than an Asian. In his society, sex before marriage is something tolerated, but in this society, it is not. Same as drinking alcohol, approach to marriage and so much more. The American can follow the Buddhist principle but he will modify it to suit his own culture and lifestyle.

Lastly, I will leave you with this :

揥hoever imitates a people is one of them.

Do you celebrate valentine's day  seph?
Do you consider Valentine's day part of Asian culture?

[ Last edited by WICKED on 25-5-2004 at 02:02 PM ]

Seraphim

What i think is..Spehiroth is actually talking about "Asian spirit" or some sort..

Do you mean the spirit that he has already  been confused? one minute he said that christian & muslim are the same boat. If  one chosed to be muslim he's no longer an Asian, same goes to christian but I wonder why out of the sudden he talked about celebrating Valentine's day and Im still waiting for his answer about this matter. Im pretty sure he will twist and turn his fact just like anaconda!

[ Last edited by WICKED on 25-5-2004 at 02:44 PM ]

Seraphim

Originally posted by WICKED at 25-5-2004 02:41 PM:
Do you mean the spirit that he has already  been confused? one minute he said that christian & muslim are the same board. If I one chosed to be muslim he's no longer an Asian, same goes to chri ...

That, i'm not really sure what's he's trying to talk about..Although the rest i know he's talking about Asian spirit,although it's vaguely presented..Thus the confusion

he's the one who talked about asian spirit and now he's the one who mixed up everything!!!

Sephiroth

BY WICKED

Do you celebrate valentine's day  seph?
Do you consider Valentine's day part of Asian culture?

There's nothing to celebrate on Valentine's Day and Asians do not fear it like Muslims.

No, Valentine's Day is not part of Asian Culture, but it is not something foreign either.


by Seraphim

What i think is..Spehiroth is actually talking about "Asian spirit" or some sort..  

I know what I'm talking about ... I don't need a Lawyer. Thank You.


Wicked

Do you mean the spirit that he has already  been confused? one minute he said that christian & muslim are the same boat. If  one chosed to be muslim he's no longer an Asian, same goes to christian but I wonder why out of the sudden he talked about celebrating Valentine's day and Im still waiting for his answer about this matter. Im pretty sure he will twist and turn his fact just like anaconda!

It is people like you who don't have culture who needs to twist facts to suit your needs. I understand exactly what I say.

While Christians calls it Valentine's Day for Lovers to express themselves, SIMILAR events but in more cultured manners EXISTS in Chinese, Indian AND Japanese cultures.

Youngsters in all three cultures gathered together in a certain time (mostly right after harvest seasons) to mingle around and get to know each other. Festivals related to harvesting, like Pesta Menuai in East Malaysia, India and China and Autumn Festivals in Japan are designed in a way for this purpose alone.

In that context, Valentine can be accepted in Asian society by Asians because it's purpose it to give one youngster a time to express him/herself to their loved ones.

ONLY in Arab Society where man and woman are not allowed to gather together and mingle for they are afraid it will lead into sexual problems. After all, if a man in Arab society could get "stim" up just by looking at a girl's feet, he must be an animals to begin with. ;)

Seraphim

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 25-5-2004 05:04 PM:
I know what I'm talking about ... I don't need a Lawyer. Thank You.

Just my thought on what you are actually trying to say

Sephiroth

by Seraphim

Just my thought on what you are actually trying to say  

There is no double-meanings (bahasa Kiasan) in my words ... if there is, I will put remark "Sarcasm" at the end to let others know.

And I know what I'm saying, it is not like I'm confused with the whole concept here.

http://www.hgpho.to/wfest/USA-E.html
Americans even have Cherry Blossom Festival ... O_o which came as a surprise.

http://www2.gol.com/users/dotjapan/ef.html
Festivals in Philipines (Christian country)

http://www.1uptravel.com/interna ... urma/festivals.html
Festivals in Myanmar.


The bottomline of all this festivals are to get people to mingle and get to know each others, especially the young ones in a control manner, which could result in other personal things like marriage etc.

And Yes ... there are several festivals where people misuse them, even here in Malaysia. Drinking alcholol and womanizing is common in festival times and this is not a practise of ANY cultured society.

Can Muslims show me ONE festivals which is NOT related to their religion or Muhammad? :hmm:

why i notice you always targetting muslim without mentioning much about christian & the jews. i know you hate muslim so much. nope I dont consider valentine's day part of asian culture..it is a christian culture but people are so enthusiastic to follow christian culture eventhough they are not christian believers. you are the one who said religion from middle east cannot be mixed together with asian cultures and now you adapt what from the middle east. CONFUSED HUH??? You are not only CONFUSED but you also try to make other people CONFUSE TOO!