Can Asia unite?

Sephiroth

I'm not confuse, you are ...

There is THREE types of festivals in a Human society :

1. Religion related festivals like Deepavalli, Hari Raya, Hari Raya Korban etc

2. Event related festivals (it is celebrated by a society even so it is not needed to). Like Wesak Day (Gautama Buddha NEVER asked anyone to celebrate his birthday), Thaipusam, Easter and so on.

3. Social gathering related festivals like what I have shown in my links - like Harvest festivals, Cherry Blossom Festivals, Valentine's Day etc.

While a society's religious devotion is shown by the 1st type of festivals, their identity as a society (whether they are Hindus, Buddhist, Toaist and whether they are farmers, militans, merchants etc) is shown by the last two festivals.

In Muslims society however, ONLY the 1st type of festivals exists where all the others are vanishing and been deleted. In that context, Muslims are losing their identity as a society.

That is why I asked you (Muslims) to show me ONE festival which is NOT related to your religion and Muhammad since I'm pretty sure such doesn't exists.

Harvest and Cherry Blossom you can categorized as social gathering..the event celebrated by the farmers but valentine's day is consider as even related to religion because you are celebrating St. Valentine's day!

In Kelantan (as you know PAS is there) people celebrate Kites Festival (Pesta Wau bulan).
In Trengganu (as you know PAS is also there) people celebrate Pesta Nelayan. These type of festivals are  also consider as part of cultures similar to Harvest & Cherry Blossom's day!

[ Last edited by WICKED on 26-5-2004 at 08:57 AM ]

Sephiroth

I'm not confuse, you are ...

There is THREE types of festivals in a Human society :

1. Religion related festivals like Deepavalli, Hari Raya, Hari Raya Korban etc

2. Event related festivals (it is celebrated by a society even so it is not needed to). Like Wesak Day (Gautama Buddha NEVER asked anyone to celebrate his birthday), Thaipusam, Easter and so on.

3. Social gathering related festivals like what I have shown in my links - like Harvest festivals, Cherry Blossom Festivals, Valentine's Day etc.

While a society's religious devotion is shown by the 1st type of festivals, their identity as a society (whether they are Hindus, Buddhist, Toaist and whether they are farmers, militans, merchants etc) is shown by the last two festivals.

In Muslims society however, ONLY the 1st type of festivals exists where all the others are vanishing and been deleted. In that context, Muslims are losing their identity as a society.

That is why I asked you (Muslims) to show me ONE festival which is NOT related to your religion and Muhammad since I'm pretty sure such doesn't exists.


by WICKED

Harvest and Cherry Blossom you can categorized as social gathering..the event celebrated by the farmers but valentine's day is consider as even related to religion because you are celebrating St. Valentine's day!

Where in the Bible did it says that there was a person named Valentine and you should celebrate his death (assuming he existed)? SHOW ME.

In Kelantan (as you know PAS is there) people celebrate Kites Festival (Pesta Wau bulan).

Only to show that Muslims are good at flying kites. ;)

http://agrolink.moa.my/moa1/newspaper/pengairan/hd980114.html

This is not traditional or religious events, it is a commercial events, created by the Government to get more tourists in. In the past, people, especially farmers do fly kites but it wasn't known as a pesta because it is a regional events which last one or two days.

In Trengganu (as you know PAS is also there) people celebrate Pesta Nelayan. These type of festivals are  also consider as part of cultures similar to Harvest & Cherry Blossom's day!

Bullshit ... nothing from Muslims equals to anything Asian.

Both above festivals are regional ones ... the same festival is celebrated in one region while abandoned by the people of the same race and religion in other parts of the country. Whether one should even consider it a festival or a past time for farmers after a long season of planting, I do not know. Maybe even both.

This is not traditional or religious events, it is a commercial events, created by the Government to get more tourists in. In the past, people, especially farmers do fly kites but it wasn't known as a pesta because it is a regional events which last one or two days.

In Trengganu (as you know PAS is also there) people celebrate Pesta Nelayan. These type of festivals are  also consider as part of cultures similar to Harvest & Cherry Blossom's day!

Bullshit ... nothing from Muslims equals to anything Asian.

Both above festivals are regional ones ... the same festival is celebrated in one region while abandoned by the people of the same race and religion in other parts of the country. Whether one should even consider it a festival or a past time for farmers after a long season of planting, I do not know. Maybe even both.

same applies to harvest and cherry blossom's day!
Not all nation celebrate the festivals for instance in philipine -

DINAGYANG, this festival only in Iloilo City
SINULOG The Feast of Sto. Nino is celebrated in Cebu
MASSKARA takes place in Bacolod
On this feast day a boat parade takes place in Angono, Rizal,
GIANT LANTERN FESTIVAL takes place in San Fernando, Pampanga Province

Where in the Bible did it says that there was a person named Valentine and you should celebrate his death (assuming he existed)? SHOW ME.

eventhough St. Valentine's name never appear in the bible but according to the history of Valentine's day is originated in 5th century Rome as a tribute to St. Valentine, a catholic bishop!

:dia: http://wilstar.net/holidays/valentn.htm

Sephiroth

by WICKED

same applies to harvest and cherry blossom's day!
Not all nation celebrate the festivals for instance in philipine -  

Harvest festival has spiritual quality into it ... which is why the government stop/reduce the promotion of it as tourist attraction. The festival is to give thanks to the Mother Earth for the harvest. Just like Thanks Giving in Christianity, celebrated in USA.

Cherry Blossom is celebrated by Japanese in Japan (and now USA). Not very sure about the meaning (should look into it later) and it is a social gathering.

DINAGYANG, this festival only in Iloilo City
SINULOG The Feast of Sto. Nino is celebrated in Cebu
MASSKARA takes place in Bacolod
On this feast day a boat parade takes place in Angono, Rizal,
GIANT LANTERN FESTIVAL takes place in San Fernando, Pampanga Province  

Regional festivals, designed to bring people together or just for recreation purposes ... JUST like Muslims do with Pesta Wau. WHY? Because both Islam and Christianity come from the same source of lineage - Abrahamic.


eventhough St. Valentine's name never appear in the bible but according to the history of Valentine's day is originated in 5th century Rome as a tribute to St. Valentine, a catholic bishop!

IF it didn't appear in the Bible, then it is NOT a religous event/festival as you claimed last time, is it? ;)

And last time I checked, a Bishop (hell ... even a Pope for that matter) ain't a God. ;)

Harvest festival has spiritual quality into it ... which is why the government stop/reduce the promotion of it as tourist attraction. The festival is to give thanks to the Mother Earth for the harvest. Just like Thanks Giving in Christianity, celebrated in USA.

I thought you have a strong asian spirit but are  you  now trying to mix the culture from USA or western  with asian culture. You celebrate Valentine's day but from beginning you reject Christian the same way you reject Islam  and it is very  obvious you reject all related to muslim! weird to me :stp:

And last time I checked, a Bishop (hell ... even a Pope for that matter) ain't a God.

isnt it related with the religion? a roman catholic doctrine?
are you now try to mix asian culture with roman catholic belief but deny what we malay have during the wedding for zikir & marhaban that we adapt from islam belief?

[ Last edited by WICKED on 26-5-2004 at 11:15 AM ]

What a weird person...and what a weird world, in other words you can simply adapt whatever culture from the west like celebrating valentine's day for asian people but reject zikir and marhaban we adapt from islam belief for our malay wedding culture.

Sephiroth

by WICKED

I thought you have a strong asian spirit but are  you  now trying to mix the culture from USA or western  with asian culture. You celebrate Valentine's day but from beginning you reject Christian the same way you reject Islam  and it is very  obvious you reject all related to muslim! weird to me

You thought wrongly about me ... I'm not simply accepting any western cultures. The difference between you and I is that I don't CONDEMN a culture of another society simply because it is alien to me.

I don't accept it and MIX it with my own, but at same time, if someone in my society wished to follow it, I don't condemn him and my society either. Muslims are doing that. IF another person (like a Christian) have a festival which has similarities to festival I celebrate, I don't see why I have to condemn him for celebrating his.

isnt it related with the religion? a roman catholic doctrine?

What doctrine did Jesus/Isa followed when he walked the Earth? Protestant? Methodist? Catholic? ;)

are you now try to mix asian culture with roman catholic belief but deny what we malay have during the wedding for zikir & marhaban that we adapt from islam belief?

Wrong ... a person who celebrate Valentine doesn't mean he had become a Christian, and not all Westerners who celebrate Valentine is a Christian either. Even atheists who don't believe in God gives flowers to others on Valentine's Day because to them, it is a special day to do so.


As for zikir and marhaban (whatever that is) in your wedding ... that is no concern of mine. But I do have to remind you that it is YOUR religion which stopped the practise of "Bersanding" because they consider it as a waste and follows Hindu tradition.

[ Last edited by DARSITA on 26-5-2004 at 11:54 AM ]

What doctrine did Jesus/Isa followed when he walked the Earth? Protestant? Methodist? Catholic?

even a christian cant give you an answer because Jesus doesnt teach such a doctrine but it comes from the false teaching of Paul!

ONLY in your religion that such crap exists ... not in mine. Don't come and judge others by stupid standards brought by Muhammad.

From the beginning you mentioned that Asian is identify based on the asian culture & heritage but now it seems that it is okay if asian people celebrate whatever culture from the west such as Valentine's day..either it is related to christianity or not, still it is not asian culture, so where is asian identity? Why asians have to follow western culture?

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 26-5-2004 11:44 AM:
by WICKED

I thought you have a strong asian spirit but are  you  now trying to mix the culture from USA or western  with asian culture. You celebrate Valentine's day but from beginning you r ...

But I do have to remind you that it is YOUR religion which stopped the practise of "Bersanding" because they consider it as a waste and follows Hindu tradition.

Yup it not Teaching of Islam just a stupidx 1000  Hindu tradition :bgrin:

Koent Jaraningrat dlm bukunya "Kebudayaan, Mentalitet Dan Pembangunan" menyatakan bahawa Kebudayaan itu wujud paling sedikit atas 3 perkara :-

- Wujud kebudayaan sebagai suatu kompleks dari idee-idee, Gagasan, Nilai-nilai,Norma-norma, Peraturan dan sebagainya.
- Wujud kebudayaan sebagai suatu kompleks aktivitet kelakuan berpola dari manusia dalam masyarakat.
- Wujud kebudayaan sebagai benda-benda hasil karya manusia.

Maksud Kebudayaan
Keseluruhan Cara Hidup Manusia
- Cara berfikir serta daya ciptaan
- Kehendak Biologi kemasyarakatan serta alam sekeliling
- Sesuai dengan jasmani Rohani (isnt it relates to religion???)

Bidang-bidang Budaya
- Fikiran/idea
- Kebendaan
- Kesenian
- Nilai dan Norma (isnt it relates to religion???)

* Koent Jaraningrat is a famous indonesian anthropologist

Sephiroth

by WICKED

even a christian cant give you an answer because Jesus doesnt teach such a doctrine but it comes from the false teaching of Paul!  

Then why are you CLAIMING that a festival based on Christianity when you claim that Christianity is not based on Jesus? Your claims that valentine's day is following Christian tradition is like saying Muhammad was a virgin when he died. ;)

From the beginning you mentioned that Asian is identify based on the asian culture & heritage but now it seems that it is okay if asian people celebrate whatever culture from the west such as Valentine's day..either it is related to christianity or not, still it is not asian culture, so where is asian identity?

It is already proven (by your own words) that Valentine's Day has nothing to do with Christianity (which brought by Jesus). Refer to above.

Which means that Valentine's Day is social gathering just like other Asian festivals like Cherry Blossom festival. In that context, I have no objection if youngsters in Asia celebrate another social gathering.

Why asians have to follow western culture?  

Asians do not become Christians just because they send flowers to another person. Valentine's Day is just a social gathering which everyone could enjoy (as long as they within the values of Asian people).


by Robotic

Yup it not Teaching of Islam just a stupidx 1000  Hindu tradition  

That is why I said Muslims are not Malays. Malays are the ones who wed their young ones by bersanding, do "cukur rambut" thing and so many things which was colorful.

Muslims are a race who came from Africa and they have only what Muhammad throw at them. They have NO values of Asian people nor any interest in learning anything from us. In that context, Muslims in this regions are foreigners and should be treated that way.

Then why are you CLAIMING that a festival based on Christianity when you claim that Christianity is not based on Jesus? Your claims that valentine's day is following Christian tradition is like saying Muhammad was a virgin when he died.

memang dasar ular anaconda..cakap belit2 ni sampai tuduh Muhammad pulak.  

It is already proven (by your own words) that Valentine's Day has nothing to do with Christianity (which brought by Jesus). Refer to above.

Dont you feel guilty after you mentioned that asian is identify based on culture and heritage. eventhough Valentine's day has nothing to do with christianity which brought by Jesus but it was originated in 5th century Rome, a roman catholic country as a tribute to St Valentine...is Rome part of Asia or part of EU????

If that is the case, you cant condemn islam as it comes from middle east and muslims who adapt islam to mix with malay culture. Even a famous indonesian anthopologist like Koent Jaraningrat mentioned that culture exists based on not less than 3 elements including religious element.

[ Last edited by WICKED on 26-5-2004 at 01:12 PM ]

Sephiroth

by WICKED

memang dasar ular anaconda..cakap belit2 ni sampai tuduh Muhammad pulak.

Kamu yg bodoh tak faham bahasa. :spd:

Valentine's Day tu dr Bible? Tidak.
Valentine's Day dicipta oleh Bishop Roman Catholic pd 5th Century? Yeah.
Jesus itu dr Roman Catholic? Tidak.

Betullah apa yg saya kata ... Valentine's Day tak ada kena mengena dgn apa yg dibawa oleh Isa/Jesus. Mentang2 ianya disambut oleh orang Kristian, adakah ianya bermakna kamu pun akan jadi Kristian juga? Haiwan jenis apa yg begitu bodoh sekali? :spd:

Dont you feel guilty after you mentioned that asian is identify based on culture and heritage. eventhough Valentine's day has nothing to do with christianity which brought by Jesus but it was originated in 5th century Rome, a roman catholic country as a tribute to St Valentine...is Rome part of Asia or part of EU????

Rome is part of Meditaranean and Afria region. If geography is a factor, then it is correct that Islam is a foreign influence as well.

Who gives a damn who brought Valentine's day ... as long as it doesn't break the Asian culture and heritage like Islam does, I don't see why I should hate it. ;)

If that is the case, you cant condemn islam as it comes from middle east and muslims who adapt islam to mix with malay culture. Even a famous indonesian anthopologist like Koent Jaraningrat mentioned that culture exists based on not less than 3 elements including religious element.

Malays are not Muslims, their culture is not your culture and both cultures will not mix. You must choose whether you want to become a Muslim or a Malay.

And I really don't care what another muslims says about your religious elements. As far as I know, one muslim parasite is same as all other Muslims parasites which will say all kind of crap just to kiss their a$$. ;)

dasar xxxx anaconda ..ko tu lagi :spd:

malas aku nak bertekak dgn engkau lagi lain ler kau tu setaraf Koent Jaraningrat atau kau tu ahli anthoropologist dunia yang terkenal tentu aku dah tabik spring dgn engkau buat penat aku menaip & baca buku Koent tapi anaconda macam ko tu suka memutar belitkan kata2. yang aku tahu itu semua idea kau semata2 tapi tak semestinya idea kau tu diterima bulat-bulat oleh orang2 asia..termasuk jugak aku.

[ Last edited by DARSITA on 26-5-2004 at 11:50 AM ]

Sephiroth

;) asalkan sesuatu haiwan itu digelar Muslim, semua yg dia cakap itu, kamu junjung macam titah Tuhan. ;)

Tetapi kalau orang bukan Muslims cakap sesuatu, mula2lah nak melenting ... kononnya kami cuba gugut iman kamulah (macam ada ;)), nak sesatkan kamulah (macam kamu tu betul sangat ;)) dll.

Saya tak perduli siapa Koent tu (nama pun semacam ;)) dan saya tak perduli apa yg dia menbebel.

Yg saya tahu adalah Muslims bukan berasal dr Asian. Mereka adalah pendatang dan agama mereka tak sama dgn agama2 di Asia. Oleh itu, tak perlu orang2 Asia (China, India, dll) bersatu dgn mereka kerana yg mereka (bukan Muslim) akan dapat dr mereka hanyalah masalah sahaja.

yang aku tahu itu idea kau seorang..bukan kau mewakili orang2 asia secara keseluruhannya. simpan jer idea kau tu dalam bakul tempat kau letak ular sebelum kau main seruling. kalau PM kita tau idea kau tu bercanggah dengan Dasar Kebudayaan kebangsaan nanti kau kena masuk ISA..siapa yang susah? ular jugak yang susah sebab tuan dia masuk penjara tak kasi ular tu makan ..wakaka