Ada org cakap Nabi Muhammad SAW pandai baca

lolina

btol jugak tuh.. nk mhukum pesalah perlu kan saksi dan bukti kukuh lg BENAR..

puddle

Originally posted by ibnur at 17-5-2008 12:48 AM
Pada awal hadith tu disebut Saidina Ali r.a. menulis perjanjian Hudaibiyyah dengan perkataan "Muhammad, Rasulullah....    maksudnya Saidina Ali r.a. telah menulis dengan penuh perjanjian tersebut ...

Bro..
Look at the names.. the first text only mentioned

'These are the terms on which Muhammad, Allah's Apostle agreed (to make peace)

then when Ali insisted that he dont want to rub of his name, he(prophet) took the paper and WROTE

This is what Muhammad bin 'Abdullah has agreed upon

1. From the difference of the text you can see, he rub off "Allah's Apostle" and WROTE in "bin Abdullah
2. The hadith clearly mentioned he WROTE

therefore..bottom line he wrote it.

ibnur

Kenapa tak baca hadith bukhari nombor 862?

Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib: When Allah's Apostle concluded a peace treaty with the people of Hudaibiya, Ali bin Abu Talib wrote the document and he mentioned in it, "Muhammad, Allah's Apostle ." The pagans said, "Don't write: 'Muhammad, Allah's Apostle', for if you were an apostle we would not fight with you." Allah's Apostle asked Ali to rub it out, but Ali said, "I will not be the person to rub it out." Allah's Apostle rubbed it out and made peace with them on the condition that the Prophet and his companions would enter Mecca and stay there for three days, and that they would enter with their weapons in cases.

[ Last edited by  ibnur at 18-5-2008 12:53 AM ]

ibnur

Book 019, Number 4401:
It has been narrated on the authority of al-Bara' b. 'Azib who said: 'Ali b. Abu Talib penned the treaty between the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) and the polytheists on the Day of Hudaibiya. He wrote: This is what Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah, has settled. They (the polytheists) said: Do not write words" the Messenger of Allah". If we knew that you were the Messenger of Allah, we would not fight against you. The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said to 'Ali: Strike out these words. He (Ali) said: I am not going to strike them out. So the Prophet (may peace be upon him) struck them out with his own hand. The narrator said that the conditions upon which the two sides had agreed included that the Muslims would enter Mecca (next year) and would stay there for three days, and that they would not enter bearing arms except in their sheaths or bolsters.

Book 019, Number 4403:
It has been narrated on the authority of Bara' who said: When the Prophet (may peace be upon him) was checked from going to the Ka'ba, the people of Mecca made peace with him'on the condition that he would (be allowed to) enter Mecca (next year) and stay there for three days, that he would not enter (the city) except with swords in their sheaths and arms encased in their covers, that he would not take eway with him anyone from its dwellers, nor would he prevent anyone from those with him to stay on in Mecca (if he so desired). He said to 'Ali: Write down the terms settled between us. (So 'Ali wrote): In the name of Allah, most Gracious and most Merciful. This is what Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah, has settled (with the Meccans), The polytheists said to him: If we knew that thou art the Messenger of of Allah, we would follow you. But write: Muhammad b. 'Abdullah. So he told 'Ali to strike out these words. 'Ali said: No, by Allah, I will not strike them out. The Messenger of Allah (may Peace be upon him) said: Show me their place (on the parchment). So he ('Ali) showed him their place and he (the Holy Prophet) struck them out; and 'Ali wrote: Ibn 'Abdullah. (According to the terms of the treaty, next year) the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) stayed there for three days When it was the third day, they said to 'Ali: This is the last day according to the terms of your companion. So tell him to leave. 'Ali informed the Prophet (may peace be upon him) accordingly. He said: Yes, and left (the city). Ibn Janab in his version of the tradition used:" we would swear allegiance to you" instead of" we would follow you".

Book 019, Number 4404:
It has been narrated on the authority of Anas that the Quraish made peace with the Prophet (may peace be upon him). Among them was Suhail b. Amr. The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said to 'Ali: Write" In the name of Allah, most Gracious and most Merciful." Suhail said: As for" Bismillah," we do not know what is meant by" Bismillah-ir-Rahman-ir-Rahim" (In the name of Allah most Gracious and most Merciful). But write what we understand, i. e. Bi ismika allahumma (in thy name. O Allah). Then, the Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Write:" From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah." They said: If we knew that thou welt the Messenger of Allah, we would follow you. Therefore, write your name and the name of your father. So the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Write" From Muhammad b. 'Abdullah." They laid the condition on the Prophet (may peace be upon him) that anyone who joined them from the Muslims, the Meccans would not return him, and anyone who joined you (the Muslims) from them, you would send him back to them. The Companions said: Messenger of Allah, should we write this? He said: Yes. One who goes away from us to join them-may Allah keep him away! and one who comes to join us from them (and is sent back) Allah will provide him relief and a way of escape.

ibnur

Jadi siapa yang tulis?  Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. atau Saidina Ali r.a.?  

Refer kepada beberapa hadith, nampaknya macam Saidina Ali yang tulis, Nabi Muhammad hanya memadamkan perkataan Rasulullah sahaja.   Betul ke tidak ni?

so bottom line?  kena balik ngaji bahasa arab le kita ni nampaknya.  hadith pun guna bahasa orang putih ni.

orangbesi

ooo cik adik
saya tak lah minta cik adik faham sikit atau banyak
cuma saya benar benar berharap
agar ada yang mahu ikut sama berfikir
berfikir dr segi logik
dan tidak hanya IKUT dan mengikut
sikit sikit lama lama jadi bukit leeeeeee
kan
BERFIKIR SEKETIKA ITU LEBIH AFDHAL DARI IBADAH SETAHUN
kenapa NABI berpesan sedemikian
takkan NABI saja saja kata kottttt

orangbesi

iyalah saya pun tahu wahyu d ALLAH
tapi dalam bentuk apa???
kalaulah IANYA dlm bentuk tulisan arab
maka itulah kali pertama dan terakhir wahyu turun kat NABI dlm tulisan arab
yg lainnya - dibacakan oleh jibrael, terus masuk dlm hatinya
(boleh faham tak sekarang)

(bab penulisan nanti dulu ya)

orangbesi

7:157. Orang-orang yang mengikuti rasul, Nabi yang UMMIY, yang mereka mendapati tertulis dengan mereka di dalam Taurat dan Injil...........
(kan saya dah huraikan sikit kat #151
jadi tak leh BACA hanya SATU AYAT sahaja, dan kena perhatikan sebabnya AYAT itu)

62:2. Dia yang membangkitkan pada kaum yang ummiy  seorang rasul di kalangan mereka untuk membacakan ayat-ayat-Nya kepada mereka, dan menyucikan mereka, dan mengajar mereka Kitab dan Hikmah, walaupun sebelum itu mereka adalah dalam kesesatan yang nyata,

jika kaum itu ummiy atau dikatakan buta huruf
jadi kerana kaum itu buta huruf kah maka diutuskan rasul
utk mengajar AYAT TUHAN, dan mensucikan mereka
ajar kitab (ketetapan) dan Hikmah( sebab buta huruf kah)
dan adakah jika pada penghjung AYAT tu dikatakan mereka sebelum dlm kesesatan
tapi kat awal AYAT buta huruf (tak logik jadi AYAT niiiii)

sekadar utk difikirkan bersama

gunblade712

jab jab..

masih tiada siapa yang menjawab soalan aku..

jika 'ummi = buta hati..

dan Rasulullah = Rasul yang 'Ummi

maka Rasulullah = Rasul yang 'Ummi = Rasul yang buta hati..

well some tells us to use logical thinking, right?

so jikalau Jibril a.s. menyampaikan wahyu dalam bentuik tulisan (seperti beberapa yang orang mendakwa, bukan kat sini je, kat luar pon ader.. )

1. siapa yang tulis lembaran tuh?

2. mana lembaran tuh? takkan Nabi amik, hapal lepas tuh buang?

ibnur

cub rujuk kepada hadith-hadith maksud ummiy dalam quran tu.  aku baru jer paste kat page sebelum ni.

ni sampai kata buta hati pulak ni, siapa kata?

gunblade712

Originally posted by orangbesi at 16-5-2008 09:48 AM
salam

kena bincangkan sikit pasal NABI yg UMMI:
7:157. Orang-orang yang mengikuti rasul, Nabi yang UMMIY, yang merekamendapati tertulis dengan mereka di dalam Taurat dan Injil, yangmenyuruh mereka pada yang baik, dan melarang mereka daripadakemungkaran, dan menghalalkan bagi mereka benda-benda yang baik, danmengharamkan mereka yang buruk-buruk, dan membebaskan mereka daripadabeban-beban mereka, dan belenggu-belenggu yang ada pada mereka. Makaorang-orang yang percaya kepadanya, dan membantunya dalam masakeperluan, dan menolongnya, dan mengikuti cahaya yang diturunkanbersamanya; merekalah orang-orang yang beruntung."

7:158. Katakanlah, "Wahai manusia, aku adalah rasul Allah kepada kamusemua, yang bagi-Nya kerajaan langit dan bumi. Tidak ada tuhanmelainkan Dia, yang menghidupkan dan mematikan. Maka percayalah kepadaAllah, dan rasul-Nya, Nabi yang UMMIY, yang mempercayai Allah dankata-kata-Nya, dan ikutlah dia supaya kamu mendapat petunjuk."

dlm Surah ini cerita adaalh ttg Musa mulai AYAT 103 sehingga AYAT 171
dan dimasukkan ttg keterangan NABI yg kemudian (YANG UMMI)
ini adalah untuk menyangkal dakwaan golongan Nasrani yg mengatakan NABI terkemudian
yg diceritakan dlm Taurat adalah NABI mereka (ISA)
kerana ISA sudah berbicara sejak dlm buaian lagiii........
sedangkan MUHAMMAD ummi sebelum DITURUNKAN AL QURAN

dan dlm AL QURAN sendiri - terdapat lebih 30 perkataan UMMI, seperti AYAT
6:104  5:71  28:66  11:28  41:44  27:66  7:64
6:50   2:171  10:43  43:40  27:81  30:53 ...........
dan sila perhatikan bahawa
tiada satu pun PERKATAAN UMMI itu bermaksud buta huruf
bahkan bermaksud buta mata atau buta hati (dlm kesesatan)

***mungkin 1500 tahun dulu tak ada istilah buta huruf kotttttt

this is the post that i am referring to, ibnur..

ibnur

Ini mungkin tafsiran guna lojik akal berpandu kepada ayat-ayat Allah (atau Al-Quran).  Ummiy itu boleh jadi tak pernah baca kitab atau boleh jadi buta huruf.  Sebaliknya, jika kita gunakan hadith, maka ummiy itu kembali kepada buta huruf.

Berkata Syeikh Dr. Yusuf Al-Qardhawi:
Tidak syak lagi bahawa Nabi Muhammad SAW merupakan orang yang buta huruf sejak dilahirkan sehinggalah pada akhir peringkat di Mekah. Memang benar baginda buta huruf sehinggalah baginda wafat, baginda hidup dan mati dalam keadaan buta huruf. Buta huruf merupakan mukjizat bagi baginda, tetapi ianya suatu sifat kekurangan bagi kita.

sambungan....
[quote]1) Bahawa baginda SAW telah memadamkan namanya 慠asulullah

gunblade712

uhhh nice one there bro...

so the stand remains, no hard proof that Muhammad s.a.w. is literate

ibnur

sifat Ummiy (buta huruf) ni adalah satu yang diatur oleh Allah supaya Rasulullah bersifat demikian.  Kalau pembesar Quraish spt Abdul Mutalib tu tentu mampu membiayai Nabi s.a.w. utk belajar membaca dan menulis.  Kemudian persoalan akan timbul pula, siapa guru Nabi?  Adakah dia lebih hebat dari Nabi?  Kitab apa pula yang diguna oleh guru Nabi? Injil atau Taurat?  Kalau persoalan ni tmbul, lihat bagaimana Allah menafikannya:

Dan engkau (wahai Muhammad) tidak pernah tahu membaca sesebuah kitab pun sebelum turunnya Al-Quran ini dan tidak pula tahu menulisnya dengan tangan kananmu; (kalaulah engkau dahulu pandai membaca dan menulis) tentulah ada alasan bagi orang-orang kafir yang menentangmu akan merasa ragu-ragu (tentang kebenaranmu).
- Al-Ankabut Ayat 48

ibnur

aku saja nak tengok style korang berhujah sesama islam.  
kena prepare sikit korang ni yang nak bersilat kat RSF.

lolina

gunblade712

hey hey... penerangan ko make sense sehh...

dan kalau tak silap aku, Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. pernah difitnah bahawa baginda belajar bible daripda seorang tukang besi.. aku tak ingat in details cerita nih..

ibnur

jgn lupa berkenaan saintis greek yg nama galen tu.  yang orang kafir kata dia belajar ilmu kajihayat dari tulisan-tulisan si galen tu.

gunblade712

maksud ko, dorang claim Rasulullah s.a.w belajar daripada encik Galen nih?

ibnur

bukan gitu.  dia orang kata Nabi belajar dari kajian-kajian dia.