Can Asia unite?

ariyamusafir

In order to stop the harm and the injustice done by the US and its allies towards many of the poorer nations who are Asians, Asia must unite with powers such as China and Japan, together with the Arabs, must take a more proactive stand and participate in defending the welfare of fellow Asians. We as Asians in order for us to unite must first put aside all our quarrels and start to look at the positive side. We must get to know, and respect the many religions and cultures in Asia so as to destroy whatever hate and enmity due to misunderstandings.

Gravedigger

The only barriers that unite Asia is country like Singapore who feels like a master under the shadow of Uncle Sam. They even thinked that they are more civilised than their neighbour around them. Culturally, the Singapore Chinese look down upon the Chinese of Taiwan and China when they feel they are more westernised than the western themself. Isn't this a big block?

Well it depends...

Take for example Japan. The country itself is constantly on the forward in terms of technological advancement and over the decades, the cultural evolution in Japan has adopted a more pro-Western approach.

Japanese society today looks at the West and adopts a strange mix of Japanese-American infusion of culture. The traditional aspects of Japanese society, which is tremendously rich and personally, I think much more interesting than the Chinese culture, is fading fast in the background and yet, they are considered as Asia's backbone in terms of economics.

So, Singapore does play an important role in SEA. They, being kiasu, has been part of their culture and our butt jokes for the past decade. Unless a cultural revolution occurs in Singapore, their cooperation remains a vital tool in helping countries like Malaysia and Indonesia to prosper.

asia cannot, i repeat , cannot unite.

asians embrace 3 major religion - islam, christian and buddhism.
and there is a big divide amongst them which cannot be bridged.

even ASEAN is just a show-pony.

Seraphim

Asia too big...it's a dream to even unite...We arent as united as Europeans do...

Acong

Originally posted by whitepig at 18-5-2004 06:20 AM:
asia cannot, i repeat , cannot unite.

asians embrace 3 major religion - islam, christian and buddhism.
and there is a big divide amongst them which cannot be bridged.

even ASEAN is just a sh ...

:setuju: but i do hope someday ASIA will unite as one.... just like EU.... most likely US will fear the idea of united ASIA......! :bgrin:

and i think you are speaking prophecy here acong - knowingly or unknowingly.

all these APEC, NAFTA, AFTA ,EU are just building blocs of the new world order.
just like babel - the last empire must be build. George Bush is a player. he might not know it.

Bring it on. world empire here we come - just give it 10 years it 'll be here. it will not waiver. If you tell people in Europe they'll have an empire 20 years ago - they think you have just escape from Tanjung Rambutan.

Before anything constructive are to follow, what makes you think China & Japan would stand up for any Asian countries in the case of military war?

Originally posted by WinterNights at 2004-5-18 07:08 AM:
Well it depends...

Take for example Japan. The country itself is constantly on the forward in terms of technological advancement and over the decades, the cultural evolution in Japan has adopted a more pro-Western approach.

You cannot compare Singapore with Japan. The Japanese have their own culture, civilization, language and work ethics to be proud of, even though it has taken a pro-western approach. They are still proud of their own identity.

Singaporeans have the tendency to look down on non-English speaking people and non-former colonial master's servants. Singapore's pro-western approach is taxing on its people because they have to keep on trying to be more westernized than the western and being conceited about it.

For a cultural revolution to take place on 20km X 10km Singapore is easy if they want it --- but what is their own culture? Unlike Singapore or Hong Kong, the Japanese has no 'mother-country' to turn to in order to trace their cultural roots. Japan is Japan and its own identity. What is Singapore?  It is happy with its 'former British colonized island' identity.

Thats the most it can go. Thats the only root they have, unless they take the Chinese root to be  the root of multi-racial Singapore, which they already are in a way doing, and which is not really realistic since China is not the root of the Malays and Indians of Singapore, unless it decides to go to the Malay Sultanate roots, which of course it will not.

So, the safest 'root' for Singapore is the colonial master glorification root. Now, from the way things are going, they seem to be looking for new 'future roots' - the yankee one.

Can Asia unite with this kind of attitude and 'cultural preference' around? I'm skeptical. Maybe economically.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 18-5-2004 at 04:01 PM ]

RedChaSiew

>>China is not the root of the Malays and Indians of Singapore, ..<<

that is highly debatable since malays come from Yunan, china originally.

Sephiroth

by KENNKID

Can Asia unite with this kind of attitude and 'cultural preference' around? I'm skeptical. Maybe economically.  

Oh Please ... ;)

while what you said about Singapore and their roots are true, I don't see why your society is any different. ;)

What is the Malay root? What is Malay Culture and Heritage? Someone mind explaining?

Originally posted by RedChaSiew at 2004-5-18 04:27 PM:
>>China is not the root of the Malays and Indians of Singapore, ..<<

that is highly debatable since malays come from Yunan, china originally.

Thats what my dad used to say. But Malay culture today is not Yunanese culture. The Malays did not get Islam from Yunnan, or Hinduism from Yunnan - animism a long, long time ago. BUT Yunnan's present culture can be traced from Islam.

Racially yes, the Malays can be traced from Yunnan, but not culturally. Racially or ethnically you can also be traced from Adam - the first man.

http://www.geocities.com/khyber007/china.html

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 18-5-2004 at 05:05 PM ]

Sephiroth

That is a LOT of claims coming from you. Mind putting forward some historical proofs to back it up?

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2004-5-18 04:56 PM:
That is a LOT of claims coming from you. Mind putting forward some historical proofs to back it up?

Perhaps you did not read the url that I pasted.

Here are some more  on the racial stock or racial origin bit of the Malays that Mr Red Cha Siew was talking about.

http://www.asiawind.com/forums/r ... 108071&t=107645

http://home.graffiti.net/rienn/malays.htm

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/malays.htm

Sephiroth

by KENNKID

http://www.asiawind.com/forums/r ... 108071&t=107645

Rejected ... this is not historical accounts, this is just discussion in another forum.

http://home.graffiti.net/rienn/malays.htm

Rejected again because this information was taken from the site below.

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/malays.htm

[qoute]
Malay culture itself has been strongly influenced by that of other peoples, including the Siamese, Javanese, Sumatran and, especially, Indians. The influence of Hindu India was historically very great, and the Malay were largely Hinduized before they were converted to Islam in the 15th century. [/qoute]


Malay culture was product of interaction between Siamese, Javanese, Sumatran and Indian culture, however, when Islam comes into play in 15th century, most of the pervious cultural traces vanished in series of "Haram/Halal" or "Syirik" recategorization according to Islam.

Which means the "Malays" who were here before 15th Century and now are not related in culture and heritage. Historically maybe yes but not according to tradition, culture and heritage.

You have rejected your roots before 15th century because a lot of practise from there is syirik according to Islam, so you have no claims to it now.

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2004-5-18 05:13 PM:
by KENNKID

http://www.asiawind.com/forums/r ... 108071&t=107645

Rejected ... this is not historical accounts, this is just discussion in another forum.

[url]htt ...

You have rejected your roots before 15th century because a lot of practise from there is syirik according to Islam, so you have no claims to it now.(quote Spehiroth)

I'm not Malay. I'm also not claiming to be a Malay. Neither are the malays so proud of their pre- Islamic syirik links.;) Neither am I proud of my pre-Islamic syirk links. Neither are the Arabs proud of their pre- Islam syirk links. But not all links are syirik (associating God and attributing God with other than God the Creator). ;)

BUT, it is the richness and the blend of all these cultures culminating finally in Islam that has made the Malay culture the rich culture that it is, apart from its original Yunnan culture 4,000 years ago. This shows that the Malay race is a race rich with Asian culture. The unity of Asia itself exists in Malay culture. Isn't that something so wonderful about them? And God has blessed them with His true religion.;)

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 18-5-2004 at 05:28 PM ]

Sephiroth

by KENNKID

I'm not Malay. I'm also not claiming to be a Malay. Neither are the malays so proud of their pre Islamic Syrik links. Neither am I proud of my pre-Islamic syirk links. Neither were the Arabs before Islam.

BUT, it is the richness and the blend of all these cultures culminating finally in Islam that has made the Malay culture, apart from its original Yunnan culture 4,000 years ago. This shows that the Malay race is a race rich with Asian culture. The unity of Asia itself exists in Malay culture. Isn't that something so wonderful about them? And God has blessed them with His true religion.

Bullshit ... ;) You don't seems to know the meaning of Culture and Heritage.

Culture and Heritage is not about opening a history books and says "Look, my great great great Grandfather crawl out of Egypt so I'm an Egyptian" crap like what you seems to be doing now.

Culture and Heritage is WHAT YOU ARE APPLYING IN YOUR DAILY LIFE WHICH SUPPOSE TO IDENTIFY YOU AS A PART OF A SOCIETY." History alone is not enough.

Hindus wash themselves with a certain oil and lid small lamps made from the soil because it is their culture and heritage which they trace back to India in a distance time.

Chinese walk around in middle of the night with tanglungs or burn offerings and pray to their ancestors above because that is their culture and heritage which can be traced back to an event in China thousands of years ago.

However, Malays do not do somethings which their ancestors did because of "Syirik", like worship their forefathers, living in harmony with their environment, simply things like bersanding following Hindu style and so on. WHY? Islam had rejected it and you accepted it.

You cannot say you are part of a culture and heritage IF YOU DO NOT PUT SUCH PRACTISE IN YOUR LIFE.

[quote]Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2004-5-18 05:33 PM:

Bullshit ...  You don't seems to know the meaning of Culture and Heritage.

Culture and Heritage is not about opening a history books and says "Look, my great great great Grandfather crawl out of Egypt so I'm an Egyptian" crap like what you seems to be doing now.[quote]

Islam is a culture. Prayer is a culture. Fasting is a culture. Circumcision is a culture. Pilgrimage is a culture etc etc.

Praying to God in many forms and other practices were  a culture of the pre-Islamic Malays when they were Hindus.

Did I say that  the Culture and Heritage of the Malays is about the malays opening a history book and saying "Look, my great great great Grandfather crawled out of Yunnan in what is now China and  so I'm a Chinese"??? That was what exactly Red Cha Siew meant but not me.

Unfortunately Sephiroth like most of the people of your stock, you are specialised & very clever in twisting your tounge when you talk.  Is that a heritage or a culture? :lol

Eating curry is also a culture that the Malays adopted from the Hindus from India. The Yunnanis are not curry eaters.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 18-5-2004 at 06:38 PM ]

Originally posted by KENNKID at 2004-5-18 03:52 PM:


You cannot compare Singapore with Japan. The Japanese have their own culture, civilization, language and work ethics to be proud of, even though it ...

Kennkid,

True, while we cannot compare square for square the similiarities between S'pore and Japan, nevertheless such a comparison is still possible due to the medium by which the influence from the West takes place.

In the present era, the methods of cultural influence has shifted in a more subtle way. In the past, this was done through invasion and although there are still several recurrance of this today, the main medium of spreading cross-country influences is through the media. Japan itself has prided it accomplishments and it looks to be the 'West' of Asia. Many monuments like the Eiffel Tower and Walt Disney Japan have been created after its existence in the West.

The culturally rich traditions of Japan is slowly phasing out. It is still prominient in many parts of Japan, particularly in remotes areas but by looking at cities like Tokyo, Yokohama, Kyoto, just to name a few, traces of anything historical lies in the tourism sector(buildings and artifacts designed for tourists). I have spoken to quite a number of Japanese students in my university and in their opinion, they want others to see their country as a technological hub rather than a cultural one.

S'pore could embark on a cultural revolution anytime but these sorts of things occur over a period of time and not suddenly. While they may act like they are gwailohs now, reality does not allow them to act independantly or adopt such an attitude, i.e. they may alter their appearances but substantially, they will not be able to alter their actions. This is due to many factors, one of which is that they are surrounded by many conservative countries. To act independantly is one thing, to grow is another. Now, they are dependant on M'sia for water(those poor fellas :lol) and in many ways, they depend on others to sustain themselves. They could advance considerably but there is a max point. To go further, they will need their environment to mature at a constant rate, therefore our development in Malaysia will not be too offset compared to theirs.

Furthermore, one reason I think M'sia is taking its own sweet time to become a developed nation is the fact that we do benefits from various tax concessions granted to developing countries. This way, our growth is spurred in a much faster way than if M'sia were to declare itself a developed nation tomorrow.

I still think a united Asia is possible but the time frame for such is a long way off. Probably 50 years down the road, discussions could commence on an Asian Union. Economically, we need S'pore...raw materials are much cheaper to refine and process in M'sia, allowing more job opportunities and investments.

We are dependent on them and they, on us. It is a symbiotic relationship and one which can be further enhance in future.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Gravedigger at 18-5-2004 06:39:
The only barriers that unite Asia is country like Singapore who feels like a master under the shadow of Uncle Sam. They even thinked that they are more civilised than t ...

I truly agree. Most of the mindset of the Singaporeans are too supportive towards the US that US is always the right and the good and should always be the winner. To be frank, Singapore, is one of the greatest obstacle towards Asian Unity. When Dr. M tried to unite ASEAN and China, Japan and South Korea in a type of summit or something like that, US objected and Singapore objected to the ASEAN + 3, if I remembered correctly. Of course, in the unification, Singapore can be left out, but so long as Singapore continueosly bow and support the US, they wil still have their miltary presence here in Asia. I once, during my thought on unification, had thought that in order to unite Asia, Singapore must.... but I shall make no mention here. However, I also think that that view is too extreme and cruel that I now think it is better do our utmost best to win ther hearts and mind and to let them know that the great good is not the US, and it is time they be more of Asian rather than American, or European.